TheGreatLineJudge

GLJ, would you acknowledge that there are some programs, (4 or5) like Anderson County, that have better coaching and a better overall experience than any club? My thought is that the top tier programs don't schedule alot of powder puffs, and have a level of coaching above anything that club gives. Also, the top tier teams don't have a single star, but many great players.

 

Also, a top tier high school is more like college than club that is tournament driven. I would agree with picking club in 95% of the cases, but stand by my thoughts that there are high schools that are better than ANY club. Back to the question, what helps with playing in college? Same stat, 95% would be club, but that top 5% of high schools is a level above. That is why I pulled a PARTIAL list of AC players that went on to play in college. How do explain this, when has never had a strong club focus.

 

NOTE: This debate is much more civil than when we had it a few years ago !

I don't know that I would agree with them being better than ANY club, but I would say they fare better than many clubs. We always talk on here about the better club programs - Impact, Williamson Select, Dig to Win, etc, but there's a lot of club programs out there not on the radar. Look at SRVA's website and see a listing of how many/where the teams are. How many of them have you never heard of? Plenty.

Statistically speaking, the top 5% of high school teams could play a strong game against top notch club teams. In a way though, there's no comparison simply because most of the best teams players are with the strongest club programs. As far as a relatively pure play like AC (and I think this is what you're trying to say) playing against a top notch club team, I would still pick the club team. They're together 4-6 months out of the year, play all over the country together, have college-level coaches and/or former strong college players, and they're used to seeing play of their caliber. With HS teams, they have such a brief time together and their competition can be hit-and-miss. In the case of a pure-play AC against a mid-level or low-level club program, I will pick a strong pure-play HS team. In both cases, a major factor is team chemistry and relative experience.

With some clubs, the #2 and even #3 team is no slouch; with others, #2/#3 is a me-too team. This is what sets apart one club from the next - how "deep" are they?

Regardless, AC's record with sending players on to college is impressive outright, but especially impressive considering how little club experience they have relative to other HS programs out there.

And finally, how good the volleyball experience is, regardless of club or HS, will always come back to three things:

1. Team chemistry

2. Individual skill level/athleticism

3. Strength of coaching

in that order.

Without chemistry, there is no team game.

Without skill and athleticism, coaching makes no difference.

Without coaching, you can not reach the next level and win the big matches.

I'll take a stab at it. I do not have a view from the parent's perspective in this case - my view is unique from all other posts on the subject. I agree completely with everyone who says both. I would hate to think that a season could be considered complete without both. Both if we MUST choose only one..

Take club. Why, you ask? These are ON THE WHOLE reasons, not specific to one area or one team or anything. There will always be exceptions!

1) Longer season. TSSAA gives us an entire 6 weeks of regular season play. You get a bonus of 3 weeks if you're fortunate to go to the state tournament. Sure, you play "more days" in high school, but in club, you get more matches in a week's time. The club season will run for 3 months, excluding regional tournaments, qualifiers, etc.

2) Better teams. Plenty of teams in high school have one "star". If the star isn't shining today, the TEAM may not fare well. Club teams typically make teams of girls who are relatively as strong as one another in their positions. Instead of one all-star quality player in high school, you may have 6 all-stars on the floor and possibly even a loaded bench.

3) Better coaches. Many club teams have college coaches/assistant coaches within their programs. If the girls want to play at that next level, they need someone to not only prepare them for that experience, they need to be prepared for the whole recruitment process. As anyone who has had their kid go through it knows, there's a lot to it. These coaches are better prepared, know the game better, and have the knowledge to teach skills and techniques to excel the individual player's game, as well as the team concept.

4) Better competition. Iron sharpens iron. You don't get better by beating the neighborhood powder puffs. You've got to play teams at a level equal to or better than your own. Why is the competition so good? Same as you!

5) Better management. No school administrators to deal with. No high school associations to get in the way. No area restrictions. It's just the kids, their parents, and the coaches/club director. Less bureaucracy and more advocacy for the game.

6) Better rules. USA Volleyball rules are a more pure rules set than NFHS. The USAV rulebook has a lot of commentary about procedural things, like how to run a tournament, tie breaking, various formats, etc. Plus, USAV rules apply to all age groups and co-ed play, while NFHS applies only to high school. Plus, they are internationally written and accepted.

My two cents.

I agree with the general opinion here - coaches can indeed play their daughter on the team and be objective about it. The child is often exposed to the sport much earlier and sometimes even participates/"helps" at practice. The greatest burden, though, is that they're held to a higher standard 99% of the time. Good coaches will pull their own child quicker than someone else's - they simply expect more.

There's no rule anywhere in TSSAA about coach/player parental relationships. The only rule remotely like it is for officials: officials may not participate in a match with an immediate family member present either on the floor or on the bench.

Fair enough, VB. I don't think Greenbrier is received by anyone as being whiners. Indeed, it is your right to disagree. Disagreements done in a respectful manner often lead to understanding and respect for others; I can think of plenty times when disagreements/different viewpoints have gotten out of hand on this forum. This is not one of those times.

Speaking for myself and the folks I know in the volleyball world, Greenbrier is held in high regard for sportsmanship, class, strong play, and for being wonderful hosts. I will personally attest to it with my experiences in both present and past seasons.

With all these issues seeming to be settled for this forum's sake, the topic has run its course and will now be closed for discussion.

Sounds like to me the officials where either

 

A. Inexperienced and didnt know that they could overturn a line-judges call.

 

B. To spineless to ###### anyone off so they just went with what the line-judge called.

 

I wasnt there, but after reading this forum it sounds like B is the correct answer.

I take exception to that. The officials at FR were rather experienced and not new. I personally overruled a couple of calls because I saw clearly that what happened was different from the call given to me. Keep something in mind: officials must always be watching for prolonged contacts, double contacts, fourth contacts, back row attacks, back row blocks, net fouls, center line violations, determine if the ball was contacted on block (thus a 4-hit or play on).. among many other things. It may look easy up there, but volleyball is a very concentrated sport as far as attention span and judgment calls.

Mind you, while the crowd may "see" it their way and while the official may have a hard time "believing" a call, there's a couple of reasons why we may not be able to overrule. First, we may not have seen the play outright. There's a lot going on during a match, as I've mentioned above. Second, if we have no better position on the ball/play, how can we overrule? If it's close to the line and I can't clearly tell if it's in or out, I MUST rely on that person's judgment. If they make a prompt, decisive signal and cause me to believe them, how can I overrule? For me to overrule is to say that what that person told me ABSOLUTELY did NOT happen. For me to overrule is to necessarily rule against that other team and take a point away. How often do I overrule? Not often. Do I try to see every line call? You bet. Will I overrule if I disagree and know the line judge's call is wrong? EVERY time. Note: This is my personal viewpoint. I'm very picky about my lines and what I see. Remember that all of us are human and not every official is the same way.

The entire purpose of line judges is to offload partial responsibility... the things that the official does NOT have the best angle on. Line judges are to ASSIST with: touches, in/out, antenna faults of all flavors, service faults, and even players whose feet are out of bounds. A properly trained line judge is a gift. I know it first hand; lines are where I "came from" before I started using a whistle instead of a flag.

Finally, if you can do better, join us on the court. Our sport is desperately short on qualified people in all areas - referees, line judges, scorekeepers, and libero trackers alike. If you think you can do it better, we want you. If you can make a difference by doing a better job, quit complaining and just start doing it!

I don't believe the forums are the place for this sort of thing. I know both programs to be classy and that both sides have smart, friendly people. If there is truly a problem, the school administrators/coaches should be ironing it out, not the parents/fans.

One final thought: a volleyball coach once said to me "It doesn't matter who we play. If we play our game, we should win regardless."

Can we leave it at that?

that information does belong in the forums so people know what scores of games where and what the jv scores where

I've said it once and I'll say it for the last time:

PageMan's advice on where to place those scores and other information is correct. If you take the time to place it there, it will be permanently available for all who wish to see it. I believe you could even enter JV scores there. If you must post within the forums, start a new topic under "Game Info & Results" and post the particulars about the match. Posting the schedule, however, is not something that goes on the forums.

Tournament schedules are the exception.

And PageMan is quite the gentleman! /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

In a district tournament several years ago, I believe that a girl from Columbia Academy served 25-0 and then served another 4 straight in the next game. Don't think it ever got sent to the state office, but maybe it did.

please put my topic back up

PageMan is absolutely correct with his advice. The information you posted does not belong in the forums; it belongs where he stated.

When a topic is gone, it's gone. Just like this topic, soon enough.

The WH schedule topic under Game Info & Results was deleted because the schedule is already posted in other areas of CoachT. Therefore, it is a redundant issue. If a person wishes to see the schedule, they may find it in the Schedules portion of the website.

I believe the common denominator, at least with MT ball, is coaching changes. If I'm not mistaken, every team that's dropped that comes from MT had a change-out in the last year. This is probably better served in its own topic, but I do believe the best solution is a non-refundable deposit or outright payment in full. Non-refundable 50% up front and the balance on arrival. Those on the waiting list get the 50% discount courtesy of the dropping school.

Your cash is your commitment! Just a thought.

Thanks for supporting our sport! Good to see volleyball growing, especially in that area. Looks like Giles County's facilities are in order (always a good sign for a first-year program).

Thanks for all the pictures you continue to post.

white house needs to play good teams to get ready for the district tournament and what teams are already in the tournament

i think white house would be able to complete against any team they play

If they aren't available on the Friday, don't get in the mix. Not to mention, this is equivalent to the Brentwood tournament. Creme a la creme, baby!

The Brentwood of Middle TN volleyball tournaments this year. Congrats on what looks to be a strong field.

If you wish to simply post a match score and brief commentary, post in the relative area the match was played in.

If you wish to make a detailed post about a match, you may/should make a new topic out of it. It may be helpful to post the scores in the relevant "running" topic.

RUNNING SCORES are primarily for scores and very brief detail.

Keep these guidelines in mind, as it will facilitate a more readable and enjoyable forum.

All of Middle Tennessee outside of the Nashville/Murfreesboro/Williamson County area

Memphis, Jackson, and all of West Tennessee

Since there's not a tremendous number of Knoxville schools followed closely, all of East TN EXCLUDING Chattanooga area is consolidated here.

Thanks to VBD for the idea!

Post 'em here.

PRO: Nice to see volleyball get covered.

CON: The whole article.

Really, how many back-handed compliments can one "professional" writer give?

Mr. Long, I recommend you bone up on volleyball before you dish out such journalism again.

By the way, he gave better accolades to a 5 year old. Sheesh.

I'm ready for all the back-row blocks and illegal attacks by setters and non-setters alike! Thanks VBD, great job again!

PLEASE remember to post match results, tournament results, and all tournament info under Game Info & Results. Due to the sheer volume of postings, we need to keep the forum as organized as possible. The general topics/discussion topics need to stay in the general forum area, but the match-specific things should remain in their own area.

Thanks!

Would an attack error be any attempt to hit the ball over the net to the other team, be it by spike, etc, that goes out of bounds or into the net, is considered lifted? Anything else fall in the attack error category?

Any attempt to send the ball to the other side is considered an attack/attack attempt. Doesn't matter if it's a spike, overhand set, bump pass, etc. All are considered attacks once the ball breaks the plane of the net. With that in mind, any of these actions that result in an immediate loss of rally by the attacking team should be considered an attack error.