best_of_the_west

I wouldn't crown him the King of the Southeast based on those results alone. Don't forget that he won 4-3 with a scare at the end over Creagan in the finals and 1-0 over Tolbert in the semifinals. Waddell beat Tolbert 13-0 in a dual this year, but I don't think Tolbert put forth his best performance for that match. Wright is one of the greatest public school kids to come out of Memphis in a long time, but he didn't start wrestling at age 5. I truly believe that he has much more potential than we have seen so far. As for a Waddell match, it's got to be split odds. For every piece of evidence in favor of one, there is another in favor of the other.

Good post. If we want to argue about the best wrestlers in Tennessee, we have to always remember that little asterisk next to that title. It's really an argument about the best wrestler who is able to wrestle due to the blessings he has been given. Coming from Memphis, I have watched as the population of wrestling programs has been pushed from the city to the suburbs. Many kids who could have found opportunities through wrestling no longer have that option. Schools like Raliegh-Egypt, Westside, Kirby, and Ridgeway have seen their programs lose momentum due to circumstances beyond the control of the students and coaches. It is important for coaches like Ralph Gabriel to fight for the futures of these youths. It's wonderful that so many kids can go to schools that have the money and support to have a wrestling program, but we can't forget those who aren't given those blessings. I couldn't begin to suggest ways in which this would be possible, but we are a wrestling community. When a wrestler from Tennessee succeeds beyond high school, whether it be in wrestling or in life, we can all feel a sense of pride in knowing that each person in the community was a tiny part of the environment that gave that wrestler the opportunity to be successful. Maybe you sharpened his skills by competing, maybe you molded his career by coaching, or maybe you put your own money into the booster clubs and tournaments that keep the sport financially feasible. These are some of the sacrifices that provide kids a place to go for the lessons taught on a wrestling mat, the lessons that keep many of those kids out of trouble and provide some of them the chance for an education that would otherwise be impossible. And while these sacrifices are admirable, hundreds of others from less fortunate backgrounds miss out every year. As Mr. Drinkwine so pertinently said, "If you are willing to begin truly 'giving back' to this sport, do it in a way that benefits someone who would not have a chance of success without you." In the movie 'Pay It Forward,' the young boy describes this idea as doing something for others that "they can’t do for themselves." This is a beautiful sentiment that we would all do well to consider. I could not begin to cast stones at anyone, because I am no better. I would only hope that others might see what I have seen in our wrestling "community" and realize that things change through the actions of even one person such as Coach Gabriel. Each of us has the power to make change happen. A much better man said it in a much better way than me: "Life's most urgent question is: What are you doing for others?" --Martin Luther King, Jr.

He hasn't decided.

I agree that this is not the best system due to the growth of the sport. Making the tournament smaller by wrestling district, regional, and maybe even sectional (4 sections based on proximity to one of the 4 major cities) tournaments would have about the same effect as expanding the consolation bracket, because it reduce the chance of seeding flaws. I posted on another thread that I think there should be a better seeding system besides previous medals, because freshmen, injured wrestlers, or kids that just moved to Tennessee cannot get a seed when they often deserve one. I don't think the tournament should be too hesitant to change, because it should be able to refine as the sport evolves in our state.

I agree. Technically, there is no perfect way to find the best 6 wrestlers in a group of 32. A round-robin tournament is the most accurate way to measure competition, but that's obviously not feasible for a state tournament. There are a number of good examples of how a medal-worthy kid can get robbed. Most are related to the lack of seeding, which should be addressed, in my opinion. For example, a 9th grader is ranked 4th in state at 103. The top-ranked kid is in his region, so he places 2nd at region. This kid now has to wrestle a region champ in the second round. Let's say he loses to the region champ who was ranked 2nd in state, but was also an unseeded freshman. That kid loses to the top-ranked kid in the quarters. Now the kid ranked 4th in the state is out of the tournament after losing one match to the #2 ranked kid in the state, and the #2 ranked kid is in the consolation bracket, because he got an unlucky draw. That seems confusing, but maybe some of you will get the idea. If you only placed 4, it would be less of a problem. When placing 6, it's much harder to avoid bracketing flukes. Too many kids that are seed-worthy don't get one, whether it's because they are freshmen, they came from out of state, they were injured for the previous year's tournament, etc. Also, many times, a kid gets an undeserved seed after winning at a lower weight class and bumping way up the next year. For example, Kent Johnson is seeded #1 at 130 due to his state championship two years ago at 103, but Matman doesn't have him ranked at 130. No doubt his championship was a great accomplishment, but it is less applicable when you move up 4 weight classes. So I would make two proposals: 1. I would propose a seeding system for the top 8 or 16 kids in the state without throwing away the current system of arranging wrestlers according to region tournament results. This would be difficult to finalize, because many kids don't face each other very often. But if there were fair, coach-approved rankers in each of the 4 big cities (i.e., Hamm, CoachBray, etc.), that would cover most of the big tournaments and the area competition. There would be a seeding meeting similar to the ones held for the region tournament. If it came down to choosing between a few kids that hadn't wrestled before and didn't have much else to go on, names could be drawn from a hat. This wouldn't be perfect, but it's better than the current system that doesn't consider freshmen or kids that may have been hurt for the previous year's tournament. As it is, the brackets have too much room for "luck of the draw," or in some cases, lack thereof. 2. As has been proposed before, I think a double-elimination tournament would give medal-worthy wrestlers with unlucky seeding or an unlucky match a chance to medal. This would mean that there would be 16 more matches per weight class for D1. Wednesday, wrestling started at 4:00, so that would just be moved to 2:00 or noon. This would be hard to pull off, but as long as there is no consistent seeding system, there needs to be a way to more accurately move kids through the brackets and get as close as possible to the best 6 wrestlers. It's more fair than the current system.

Here is the "undue influence" rule, word-for-word, from the 2006-2007 TSSAA handbook: "A person or persons exceeding what is appropriate or normal and offering an incentive or inducement to a student with or without an athletic record." It's clear that: (1) no one from Bradley was contacting the wrestler, (2) the wrestler was not offered any offered any "incentive or inducement," and (3) there are a few people lacking common sense if they don't understand that recruiting involves a school representative seeking out a student, not the other way around. After winning that many state championships (and enduring countless other unfounded accusations like this one), I'm sure legman understands the recruiting rules better than anyone. Also, the wrestling community should be glad to have this kid back. He has made a mistake and has paid a higher price than so many of the pro athletes out there. Carmelo Anthony punches someone on national television and gets suspended for less than 20% of the season. Tank Johnson gets arrested (not the first time) and plays in the Super Bowl a couple of weeks later. This is a KID, not a twenty-something year old man. He made a mistake, and suffered the consequences. It takes a great deal of character, not to mention the swallowing of a lot of pride, to come back after that punishment and rededicate himself to the team. We should learn from this situation to appreciate a quality coach who has proven that he values character over winning. And we should be glad that you can learn from your mistakes. How many of us would be in a world of trouble if someone hadn't forgiven us and given us a second chance somewhere along the line? Now, back to wrestling...isn't there a big tournament or something this week?

Dragon, it's ok, you didn't hurt my feelings to bad. I tend to agree with Jose on this one. I don't know what could be done unless there were two awards. Oh well, Brandon has about outgrown the Region X accolades anyway.

It takes some pretty serious genetic luck to compete at 103 as a high schooler. There are only a few who are that light weight but are still developed enough to beat state-wide competition. This group is largely composed of the few freshmen who are very experienced in middle school and simply haven't hit a growth spurt and the few upperclassmen who have developed strength and agility without gaining weight. The 103 class will always have a very polarized talent pool, leaving a significant group of kids who don't have much of a shot to place (whether they wrestled into the tournament or not). While the situation may not be as extreme in states with more wrestlers, it likely exists due to factors beyond the popularity of the sport, and as was stated before, it is certainly no reason to diminish the experience of a wrestler's trip to McKenzie Arena.

Yea, I never thought I would see Manley, Simpson, Silberman, and Baucke all on the 103 podium. It seems like there are about 6 families that account for the majority of the titles in D2 every year, haha.

Yea, I guess people can vote by who impresses them the most, which would be much different for coaches who know the wrestlers and their history than it would be for fans who aren't as familiar with the seedings and underdogs. In my view of OW, I would try to imagine walking into a gym as though I were from Alaska and didn't know any of the kids. The wrestler that stands out the most (hence the term "outstanding") would be my choice. I didn't know Schmidty pinned three kids, so he would have to be up there. And by the way, dragon12, I know he doesn't care about OW at region. But those who can't wrestle...analyze, and being that I wasn't at the tournament, I have to analyze something from off the message boards. That was about the only thing I could find.

Coach Bray, What are you doing now? I think I heard you were teaching at Houston, and I thought I heard you were coaching, but I can't really tell from your posts.

I guess it depends on your definition of "outstanding wrestler." Maybe there should be an OW for best wrestler and a Rudy Award for beating the odds.

No OW for Wright with a pin at :50 in finals? What's the deal? It's rare to see a kid get Best Match and OW in the same tournament. Usually, one disqualifies the other.

You know I can't help but dust off my keyboard around the beginning of February.

haha, genius!

Haha, I have never heard of any of those people.

This is pretty simple. CBHS has lost 10 of its last 14 matches at 189 in which Darius did not wrestle. Those matches were split between 2 or 3 wrestlers, so nobody lost a solid varsity spot. Darius is the #1 seed at 189, and he has already pinned the #2 seed this season. This means he will likely get the 1st place team points, and they almost certainly would not have gotten any points at 189 if he had gone 171. Also, Bateman is the only returning placer at 171, so the rest of the field is fairly wide open. Kyle Hefferman, who is a decent wrestler (placed 6th at Blackhorse), was bumped when the middle weights dropped for state. Rather than let Hefferman sit in the stands, he can put on some pounds and take a shot at scoring some points at 171. In short, the chances of Hefferman placing at 171 are better than the chances of one of the 189s placing, so it makes more since for the team to move Darius to 189.

In all the years of this discussion, I have yet to discover anything substantial that Bradley has to lose by wrestling private schools. How can you think they are afraid to lose? They face out-of-state competition every year, and they don't always win. All the fans' reasons have to do with pride and bravado, and I doubt any coach is willing to go out of his way to schedule a match to settle the arguments of some old people on a message board. There must be some reason (which most of us will never know) why Bradley doesn't wrestle local private schools, but based on the program's history and shear common sense, fear has nothing to do with it.

We need to get you a new job away from the head table, Jim. You have been staring at brackets for too many years, and I suspect it has begun to fry your brain.

Haha, this is new. Usually the kid "running" has lost to the other kid. Bateman is a good wrestler. He doesn't need your help to convince people of that. And even if people don't think CBHS can medal as a team, it is their responsibility to try. But you people would rather have kids forsaking the idea of team success to satisfy some grudge match made up on a message board. There has to be something better to talk about on here.

Yes, I know every team has parents that want to be involved, even as simple as emailing the matgirls' final scores to the newspaper that night.

Those are all good ideas. I think the booster clubs would be a good place to start as far as getting scores and other information. Coaches have a lot of responsibilities, but parents would be more likely to remember to do that stuff.

We are on the same page. I was only trying point out the differences between the popularity of wrestling and football/baseball amongst high school students. The problem is not that wrestling isn't worthwhile. The problem is convincing more people that it is.

171Bartlett, You are right, it's not pressed at young ages like football and baseball. Traditionally, the best programs (CBHS, Germantown, Houston, Collierville, etc.) are the ones that have strong middle school programs to feed into the high school programs. However, wrestling is not "sexy" or popular to high school kids, and few Memphis parents have a wrestling background. The coaches that can "sell" wrestling to their kids will be able to motivate them to work harder in their down time, and more importantly, get them to summer camps and the open summer practices at CBHS, Germantown, Houston, etc. The coaches around Memphis love wrestling above all, and there is a wealth of coaches willing to help kids from all schools. As you put it, "marketing" is a challenge, but the coaches are not to blame. Cooperation from the schools and community will be crucial if Memphis wrestling hopes to step up to the next level.

I guess this is to the coaches mostly. Where does Wright stand in the history of Memphis wrestling if he wins 4 regions titles and back-to-back state championships? It seems like he might be the best since the public/private split, along with the Marables. Has anyone won back-to-back in DI out of Memphis? He is proof that if Memphis has the coaches and programs to compete with the rest of the state, but baseball and football keep distracting the athletes. Brandon didn't have a wrestling family, he didn't move to Memphis from the North, Florida, or California, and he wasn't wrestling from the age of 3 like so many other wrestlers of his level. He just committed early to work hard at wrestling and listened to some very good coaches. He has never gotten in the kind of trouble that has damaged so many other talented wresters' careers, and his grades have always been pretty good. If more kids had that kind of discipline, Memphis would be a strong wrestling area, and more kids could win scholarships to help them get to college. But my main point was just to ask the old Memphis coaches and fans where he stands in the history of Memphis wrestling (public and overall). Thanks and good luck this weekend.