dore83

Greenbrier was on a roll the last couple of weeks and shouldn't have had much problem with Goodpasture, but as they say, that's why they play the games. Goodpasture and Cartwright stepped it up with a big game when they needed it the most. Not sure who thinks the Greenbrier coach is a good coach. # 6 Goodpasture vs. # 2 Station Camp and # 4 DCA vs. # 1 White House on slate for tonight. Certainly hope the officiating is better tonight. The two crews that called yesterday were among the most pitiful I've seen all season long. It was ridiculous.

It was an enjoyable game. DCA jumped out to a early lead, Greenbrier brought it back close but DCA ran it back out to 19-13. From that point in the 2nd quarter and extending through the first 6 minutes of the 3rd quarter, Greenbrier went on a 17-0 run to make it 30-19 - tons of DCA turnovers and Greenbrier converted and buried their free throws. DCA scrapped back and took a lead in the 4th. Up by 4 with about 45 seconds left. A couple of DCA turnovers and a freethrow cut it to 44-41 with 8 seconds left. Greenbrier hit a 22-23 footer to tie it and send it to overtime. More DCA turnovers allowed Greenbrier to run out to a 6 point lead right off the bat in OT. DCA got it back down to 2-3 but Greenbrier held. Pretty sloppy game at times... officials allowed it to resemble rugby (no advantage either way)... but it was an exciting game to watch.

Wow. I was just trying to help clear up some obvious confusion and some myths here as a way to assist others. I don't have my ASA or FED books with me at the office, but I do have the NSA book on my computer. There is little or no difference between NSA and ASA/FED on this rule. Specifically Rule 8, Section 8 (a) states: The baserunner is out when in running to any base, he/she runs more than 3 feet from a direct line between that base and the next base, in regular or reverse order, to avoid being touched by the ball in the hands of a fielder. When a play, such as a rundown is made on a runner who has "rounded" a base, and that runner is outside a direct line between bases, the runner establishes his/her baseline as a direct line between him/her and the next base in regular or reverse order. Rule 8, Section 9 states: Baserunner is NOT out: a- When a baserunner runs behind or in front of a fielder and outside the baseline in order to avoid interfering with a fielder who is attempting to field the ball in the baseline. b- When a baserunner does not run a direct line to the base, providing the fielder in the direct line does not have the ball in his/her possession. The biggest difference between NSA and ASA is that ASA adopts additional terminology in their umpire manuals. They use the term "basepath" to eliminate confusion with "baseline." From my powerpoint presentation at a recent clinic I led: "A base path is a direct line between a base and the runner's position at the time a defensive player is attempting (or about to attempt) to tag a runner" (ASA Rule 1). From the umpire's manual: For the purpose of this rule, the runner's basepath is not defined until a defensive player has the ball and is attempting to tag that runner out. If the defender is attempting to field a batted ball, the basepath cannot be established until they actually possess the ball and make the attempt. Up to this point, the runner may alter their route as they choose without penalty. To quote a brilliant Umpire in Chief - they can run loops around the pitcher's circle without penality if they can do it without making a travesty of the game. The 3 foot barrier - yes it is judgement of the umpire - applies ONLY when the fielder has possession of the ball and is attempting to make a tag. There is no limitation as to the distance a runner may take to avoid interferring with a defensive fielding a batted ball. In fact, the strong implication (and manual interpretation) is that 3 feet would not be enough to insure avoidance of interference more times than not.

Hard to tell what the call was or what the right call should have been based upon the description - this is a good example of "had to be there" to see it and know all the elements. You also didn't say if the runner was out because she crashed into the catcher or because she was tagged out (or perhaps both I guess). There are a lot of "ifs" on this play that come down to timing, player position, and umpire judgement. A catcher can straddle the line or block a base without the ball if she's not impeding a runner. If she has the ball before the runner arrives, she can block, straddle, or whatever and be perfectly legal. If the ball got there at the same time as (or after) contact, it would be obstruction under the new rule. It sounds like the umpire's judgement was that the catcher did not impede the runner prior to possession and had possession before blocking the plate. It also could have just been a bad call.

That's what several people have tried to address in this thread. The "slide rule" is a myth. There are some local rec leagues across the country that have added their own league rule for league play that requires players to slide, but other than that, there is no requirement in ASA, NSA, FED, or any other rule book for a player to slide, ever. A runner cannot be ejected or called out for not sliding, but they can be called out and/or ejected for crashing into a fielder when they aren't sliding. They merely have to avoid crashing into a fielder. The can stop, reverse, run around, reach their leg through or slide. The new rule is not that a fielder cannot block a base. The new rule is that a fielder cannot block a base without having the ball in her possession. If she has the ball, she can literally lay on top of the bag so that it doesn't even show. Additionally, players cannot run over a player trying to get to a base (see above). There is no rule against sliding into a fielder making a tag. If the fielder has the ball and is blocking the base, it's a clean legal play. If the fielder doesn't have the ball, it is obstruction on the fielder and the runner is safe no matter what happens once the fielder has the ball.

I think that is probably in the eye of the beholder - especially in middle school - and maybe the level of travel ball. All our girls had enough of MS ball before they played their first game, and they come from 8 different schools. It's really difficult for intense, competitive, focused athletes working out year round to play in such a different environment with such different motivational, skill, and desire levels.

I'm not sure what you are saying / asking. You can run 10 feet (an example, could be any distance) out of the baseline if that's what's needed to keep from interferring with a fielder making a play on a batted ball. Moving out of a line only 3 feet near a charging or retreating fielder attempting to field a batted ball quite often isn't enough to insure that there won't be contact or interference (note: interference can occur even without contact - jumping across the top of a glove or the fielder stopping/slowing/changing directions to avoid a runner may also be ruled as interference). Runners are not "glued" or "teathered" to any line unless a fielder is attempting to make a tag. Even then, the line is not the "base line" but the path she has established. For example, a runner rounding first can easily be near the grass line in right field and would be 15-20 feet out of the "baseline." Her path from 1st to 2nd would then become a straight line from there to 2nd base. She would never hit the baseline until arriving at 2B. If it wasn't that way, runners couldn't make turns and would have to run around the bases at 90 degree angles. Another good example would be a pop up to the first baseman. If the protected fielder is standing in the middle of the running lane, the batter/runner must go around her. If the runner veers into foul territory... the wind blows the ball toward the dugout and the first baseman moves further foul as the runner is veering (thus cutting off her altered path)... the runner must still avoid her, even if she has to veer even further foul to the dugout fence line, well outside any 3 foot limit. The only place the 3 foot limitation comes into play is when a fielder is attempting to make a tag. The runner has 3 feet either way, calculated from her "path" to attempt to avoid the tag. The 3 foot distance is basically an arm length. If you could not move 3 feet out of your running path to avoid a tag, then a hook slide or better yet, a wide slide into a base where your entire body is away from the bag/plate and you reach over as far as you can to touch the base/plate with your outstretched hand would result in an out. It sounds like you are attaching the 3 foot limitation to the wrong thing.

Just for information purposes... The runner has 3 feet to the left of her running path and 3 feet to the right of her running path if she is attempting to avoid a tag. The baseline is irrelevant - her path is determined by a straight line between where she came from and where she is going. That is 6 feet (plus the width of her body) of flexibility to where she can be legally when there is a play being made on her. If there is no play being made on her, there are no running path restrictions.

Sorry CoachDude... there is no such thing as a slide rule in TSSAA or ASA. A runner is NEVER required to slide. The applicable rule states that a runner may not crash into a defensive player with great force. If she does, the penalty is either 1) runner declared out - even if the defensive player drops or misses the ball, or 2) runner declared out and ejected if, in the umpire's judgement, the action was flagrant. There are times when two or more players collide without a penalty given by the umpire. If, in the umpire's judgement, there was simply an unavoidable train wreck with no culpability on the runner's part (i.e. a catcher moving up the line to catch an errant throw and in doing so suddenly moves into the path of an oncoming runner to make the catch so that a crash occurs), the runner is not declared out. There could still be an obstruction call on the catcher. The obstruction rule (blocking the plate) was changed last year. The rule used to state that a fielder could block a base if she was in possession of the ball OR if she was in the process of having possession of the ball (i.e. catching the ball as the runner was approaching the base). The OR part was eliminated from the rule. Now a fielder may block a base ONLY when she has possession and control of the ball. But, again, even with this rule, there is no mandatory slide. The runner must simply avoid crashing into the defensive player.

Actually they beat Team Worth 38-26. Team Worth is a fastpitch softball team playing basketball for a few weekends.