DIIA

I'm not sure who bout---messi is, but he does not represent our program at White House. I do appreciate his support of our program. I took over in '94. There had been soccer for 3 years before I got here. It may have been co-ed at some point, but I've never coached that team. I was a football guy that was asked to coach soccer in order to keep the sport off of the football field. We won 2 games that year; the first two wins in program history. Those boys worked freaking hard!! I decided that if they were willing to give that kind of effort, I should as well. I did. We have been blessed all of these years with a feeder program in White House Youth Soccer at div 2 or 3 and those that choose to be a part of youth travel soccer at a div 1 level at TN United. We have feeder programs and I'm proud to say that Zach Trobaugh (one of our best alum) has trained some of our best current players at some point or another. But our current run is a mirror run of the runs we made in the '90s. We've been in the T$$AA round of eight 9 times. I'm very proud of the status of our program. This year I've not voted us higher than 8-9. I do think we can give anyone a run for their money on a given day. But that's the onus of dealing with high school boys; some days we look stellar and some days we look like I coach them. I've been a big proponent of the split of public/private. That is a complicated issue. I've talked personally with men I respect as Coach Gilman, Brett Armstrong and coach G and they know how I feel. This is the last year that we will all be together. But , I've misquoted by the the media in the last year. The Tennessean picks portions of quotes that I've given them and it makes me look like a whining tissue holding scouser. Last year I was beaten down by the media by 'crying about' being put out by privates. They put my quote 'on line' that was not put in print that "at some point we have to be mean enough and tough enough to beat them". I mean that. I do believe in my beliefs that's it an unfair playing field when you don't have a limited zone. We have White House, Millersville, and a portion of the Cottontown mailing address. That's it. But, until the split happens, we've got to get tough enough to beat one of them boys. We are 3-3 in post season vs. CPA. Beat others along the way over the years. Back to the subject- I'm proud we are mentioned in your Coach T topic. I've nothing but respect for coach G from the time in the 90's he was at CAK and we we played at Lenoir City til 2 years ago when we lost on PK in the sectionals. He and his wife were both class acts/bar none after that game! Messi's belief that the polls are biased are correct. There are about 10-12 of us that vote. Contact him if you want to get involved. It's a guess. I do appreciate Coach G for contacting many of us to get our input. On a final note: I'm not a liscened A-Z coach, but our boys are training very hard to get mean enough and tough enough.... CPA: agreed; no sectionals.

 

 

Mark, you are a class act and run a great program up in White House.  Brett Armstrong was in town a few weeks ago, and he, Tom Gilman, G, and Ryan Doyle (all 4 CPA coaches in the program history) along with myself and another current assistant had a great weekend.  Gilman and Brett always spoke well of your program, but were an even bigger fan of you as a person.

 

I've been around since 2009 and have played WH 3x in the post season on the boys side.  They put us out in 2011 in the region semi.  We met again in 2013 in the region final which we took but both moved on.  After the state poorly gerrymandered A/AA in middle Tennessee in 2013, WH became a sectional pairing and we played in 2015 which ended in penalties in a match which deserved a better officiating crew, or at least one where the center was not running up and down the field continually harassing and screaming at players from both squads and swearing in front of the benches.  We played down 2 players for about half of the 110 minutes.  Had a 1-0 lead early on before WH put in 2 and we equalized with about 3 minutes left in regulation.  Before the shootout, Mark came up to me and said "It's been one heck-of-a game, we've given you all we have" to which I replied "and we've given you everything we have too."  A bad way to end any game, but we lived to fight another day and ended up winning the whole thing for the second year in a row a week later.  Hated seeing anyone lose that game as we both knew that there were two teams that would make it to state which were lesser teams, but that is how the brackets and regions work.

 

As for the public-private thing, you have always been a straight shooter about your views on that.  I'm fine either way as it is complicated and an issue on which reasonable and intellectually honest people can disagree, but you have never been a complainer or made excuses.  All this to say, it would be great to meet up with your White House squad one final time in Division 1 on the last Friday in May in the stadium at Siegel.  Hope to continue the friendly rivalry in the coming years even after we move to Division II.

Do it the same way the all midstate team is done with a 1st and 2nd team comprised of 18 or so players. That makes sense not the current structure for those classifications. What you have now resembles NO postseason awards team anywhere.

Your initial post said that the current system of 22 players was too large and your follow up post is suggesting either having 18 players total listed as 1st and 2nd team, or having two lists of 18 players for a 1st and 2nd team.  36 total seems like a large number, and 18 is not much less than 22.  I guess I'm not following what you are suggesting.

CPA is well coached and classy? 

Hmmm...not sure about classy as the fans at least are some of the most opinionated and arrogant fans in TSSAA. Very entitled group and that begins with their coach, imo.

I rarely waste my time responding to this sort of comment but can't let this one go as it is little more than gossip you hear midweek at the local hair salon.

If you're going to make comments like this, you need to provide specific instances where you have interacted with CPA players, coaches, and fans where they have been "the most opinionated and arrogant fans" as well as being a "very entitled group."

Interested in hearing about specific games/dates and detailed first hand experiences.

Having a list that large for A/AA is too big IMO. All mid state has every school in all classifications and its a normal sized list. Makes no sense to have a list as large as the A/AA one.

22 players is a normal roster size but I'm assuming you mean limiting it to 11 total.  In a world where soccer was the primary sport and there were multiple groups of informed coaches and members of the media weighing in, that would probably work but I just don't know of any other way to do this other than the way it's currently being done.

Just as a point of reference, AAA had close to 50 girls so the A/AA is less than half that even though there are more A/AA soccer programs than AAA.

the all state class A/AA is as you say picking 15- girls which is less than 1% of the players in the state in the classification, what you did not mention is that if a coach is not a member of the THSSCA, their players are not eligible to be picked. So in reality that automatically eliminates a chunk of players from selection, especially at the smaller schools whose coaches may not be members.

 

Also, the last few years before this year, as i was told by a local coach, 14 of the spots were reserved for players of teams that make the state tournament with the last  spots going to players on teams not at the state tournament. so 14 players from 8 teams are chosen, and roughly 4-8 players from the reaming 142 schools were picked. so if you lost in the first round of state you got 1 guarantee player on the team, semifinal losers got 2 spots, and you got 3 if you made the final. the remaining 4-8 spots could also come from those teams but not guaranteed.

 

This year she said that a list of nominated players was sent out for member coaches to vote on, but she was not sent anything about nominating players from her team even though she was a member of the coaches association.

 

it seems like a small group of coaches running the coaches association set up the all state team to benefit their teams chances of getting players on it.

The part about players from non-member schools is incorrect.  While schools have to be members to have players named to the all state team, if a player makes the all state selection, coaches are retroactively given the opportunity to join the organization so that no player is omitted from selection.  This is allowed after the nomination because it is the right way to do it.

The part about 22 players in A/AA is correct.

The part about an all state team "eliminating a chunk of player from selection" is correct.  That is the point of an all state team, it is limited to a small group of players.

The part about 14 slots being allocated to teams which make the final 8 at state is correct

The part about someone getting a list of nominated players but not getting to nominate players... not going to comment about (1) second hand information and (2) complaints where neither names or specifics are included.

The part about "a small group of coaches running the coaches association.... to benefit their (sic) chances of getting players on it" is incorrect.

There are essentially two approaches to making an all state team in a sport outside of football or basketball:

1. "X" amount of players equally spread across each region

2. Limiting the number of slots using reasonable methodology

The THSSAA has opted for the second method in class A/AA.

Without providing any specifics, it poor to suggest this organization is set up and the process reverse engineered to have predetermined outcomes to benefit a small group of its members.

JFW

Page will be in AA.

Of the 8 "traditional" team TSSAA sports, soccer (b/g) and volleyball will be split three ways evenly based on schools which field teams in their respective sports rather than by total schools.  This puts the split points between A-AA and AA-AAA higher than if if it was done by total schools.

With almost all of the private schools gone In AA, Page should continue to do well as they have in the past 4 years  Nate Clap runs strong programs in the fall and spring and will ilkely contend for state titles each year for both boys and girls.

My understanding of the rule is if a player moves and switches schools, they must shut the power off basically at the old residence. No one can stay behind living there. Reason behind that is that a family could simply rent in another zone, never move, and be eligible. However, I think I heard this young lady had a sibling in the old zone that continued school there.

That makes sense.  However the rule clearly states that moving back to the previous residence is a violation if (implying "if and only if") the person moving back is a parent or guardian, rather than a sibling.

If this was not a parent or legal guardian moving back, then I don't understand how it is a violation.

Thanks for the post, just looking for clarification.

The thing about these types of rulings is that they will almost always negatively affect another team within the district when it comes to tournament play. Now, the team who was going to draw the last place team in the district that they probably had a definite shot of beating will now have to face this Oakland squad that will present a much tougher game.

Amen, and amen!  +1

I'm still unclear what actually happened here as it has not been addressed in this thread.

Article II, Section 13 states:

"If a student has been ruled eligible as a result of a change of residence, and the parents or guardian return to the former residence before the student has been enrolled in the new school for one complete school year, the student will be ineligible for twelve months from his/her last participation date."

The article says "an older family member still resided at the old residence."  Is this "older family member" a parent or guardian?  I so, then it's more than likely a violation (unless the parents divorced and the mom got custody).  If this was a non-custodial older sibling, aunt, uncle, extended family member, etc., then a parent or guardian did not return to the former residence and no violation occurred.

If there is another scenario which is not covered by these two possibilities I've addressed here, I've not thought of it.

The ruling is unclear about how this was a violation.  Just hate to hear about something like this from a school, program, and coach which be all accounts are doing things right and above table.

well they have put the small college CPA in DII where they belong so that will help everyone!

???

who nose; DCurtis just may show back up.....that was a good ball team WH put on field gainst the Irish in the 2012 championships......if we could still play these games on surfaces like CCS Baylor and GPS

 

Booger just sayin   

Yes, I wish the girls' state tournament was still in Chattanooga.  Great city, great experience, and wonderful playing surfaces.  The CCS field (R.I.P) was one of the top grounds in the entire state before they destroyed it and the spectator seating area, built into the side of the mountain was wonderful as well.  The White House 2012 team was a great team.  We beat them in the 2009 region semi (because WH lost the district final which they should have won) when that group were freshman.  They were young but we knew they would be great in years to come.  Didn't play them in 2010, and beat them in the region semi in 2011 even though they were better than us.  Beat them in the region final in 2012 the year you were referring to.  If they could have knocked off CAK in the state semi, a CPA-WH rematch in the final would have been a great match as well.

Did White House get beat by Independence 11 - 1?

Yes.  It was back in August.  Score was either 1-1 or 2-1 at the half and Independence just unloaded over next 40 minutes.

Page is a very good team this year and has good depth.  White House is solid as well as they have built a great program up there over the past 6-8 years so this should be a really good match.

http://tnhssoccer.weebly.com

http://tnhssoccer.weebly.com

District 11-AAA

Quarter

(4) Independence  -  W

(5) Centennial  -  L

(2) Franklin  -  8

(7) Dickson Co.  -  0

(3) Ravenwood  -  1

(6) Summit  -  2

SEMI

(1) Brentwood

(4) Independence

(2) Franklin

(6) Summit

Brentwood as the #1 seed is already through to the region semi.  If Brentwood loses to Independence, the final becomes an elimination game with the winner taking the district and the loser going home and Brentwood is the #2 seed in the region semi.

The district final will as always be the same match as the region final and the sectional match should be two of Clarksville, Hendersonville, Station Camp, Rossview

It's an early morning at Lebanon Pike, brackets are posted.

Notre Dame vs CAK
White House vs Greeneville
Murfreesboro Central vs Jackson Christian
CPA vs Lexington

The way classification works is relatively simple.  They take the total number of schools, roughly 360, and divide them up.  With the current system, they are divided into groups of 3.  The breakpoints are not fixed, but they have fallen give or take...

A = 1-500

AA = 500-1000

AAA = 1000+

Basketball, Volleyball, Baseball, and Softball have these 3 classes.

Soccer, XC, Track, Tennis, and Golf combine A and AA to make A/AA so the breakpoints for those sports is 1-1000, and 1000+

Football had always taken those 3 classes and split them in half to make 1A, 2A (each half of A), 3A, 4A (each half of AA) and 5A, 6A (each half of AAA).  Football now takes the top 32 to make 6A and divides the remaining schools 5 ways and the splits fall where they do.

The 4 class system would take everything except football and instead of dividing things 3 ways, you would do it 4 ways.  Doing this would put the splits at or around here:

A:   0-400

AA: 400-725

AAA:  725-1200

AAAA:  1200--->

Soccer would have A/AA, AAA, and AAAA which would move the current A/AA from 1000 down to around 725.

If someone can tell me how to post a PDF file here, happy to post the relevant parts of the 80 page report I put together about all of this.  

Sorry, not sure what that posted several times.

They really need to go to four classifications across the board and here is where the breaks would fall (give or take a little).

A:   0-400

AA: 400-725

AAA:  725-1200

AAAA:  1200--->

3 class sports (Basketball, Softball, Baseball, Volleyball) would have 4 classes

2 class sports (Soccer) would have 3 classes

A/AA

AAA

AAAA

2 class sports XC, Tennis Track, Golf) would have 2 classes

A/AA

AAA/AAAA

Wrestling and Bowling are the other two and would remain as they currently are.

They really need to go to four classifications across the board and here is where the breaks would fall (give or take a little).

 A0-400

AA

They really need to go to four classifications across the board and here is where the breaks would fall (give or take a little).

 A0-400

AA

I think that the coaches nominate the players so if that it the case, I think the coach would have to have known about it.  I could be wrong on that, maybe Big G or Russ can weigh in on the process some more or correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry to hear those three Hardin Valley were not made aware of the match info as I'm know they would have had a great time and to be recognized for their achievement.

JFW

I am not sure who is in charge of letting the coaches know about the game as far as who is playing in it and when it is, but Hardin Valley was not made aware of it until this past week (a week after the game was played)!  My daughter is one of the 3 players chosen from HVA, and she would have loved to have played!  She does see it as an honor to be chosen and is actually very disappointed that she missed it. 

Had the pleasure of watching two of my senior girls play in the THSSCA All Star game today.  The west won 3-0 in a fun match.  Had several moments of intensity but with less than half a dozen fouls between the two teams it felt somewhere between a regular season match and a pickup game, exactly what it should have been.

The only disappointing part was that while each team had 20 players listed on their rosters, of those 40, 10 did not turn up.  The east squad only had 13, one of which was a goalkeeper, so only one extra field player.  When one of their girls went down with an injury two of the west players went over to the east team to give them a few more.

I'm sure there were probably legit reasons for a few of those 10 no shows, but with so many great players across the state who did not get to play today, it just seems poor to take one of those special 40 roster spots and then not show up for the match.

Other than that, it was great and thanks to everyone at the THSSCA who helps put it on each year.

JFW

Greeneville was excellent today and all week.  They had an interesting road to get there with 2/3 of their regular season matches with a result of +5 or more.  More often than not, a team is not prepared for 3 matches of high level competition.  This was not the case with Greeneville.  They were the best side in all three matches against three quality opponents.  Today, CCS played a solid full 80 minutes with a tough road to get there over the past 39 hours.

This was Greenville's year and they seized the moment.  Well done.

JFW

Greeneville was excellent today and all week.  They had an interesting road to get there with 2/3 of their regular season matches with a result of +5 or more.  More often than not, a team is not prepared for 3 matches of high level competition.  This was not the case with Greeneville.  They were the best side in all three matches against three quality opponents.

This was Greenville's year and they seized the moment.  Well done.

JFW

I don't really understand the complaints about short turnaround times on games. Club teams play 2 games in one day all the time, and it is very common for them to play 3 games in 24 hours. A good high school team trains much more than a club team, so what's the big deal? Shouldn't stamina and depth play a part in in a championship run ?

You are correct about club teams often playing tournaments with 2 matches on Saturday and a third on Sunday, all within about 30 hours.  But playing numerous forgettable matches in equally forgettable tournaments is the opposite of what we should be trying to offer our high school players.  This is not a slight on all club events and teams as there are many club team experiences which are amazing and memorable for players, families, and coaches.  There is something special about playing high school ball with friends you see every day and that you have spend anywhere between 4 and 12 years with.  The starting 11 of our boys team in the final last spring had 9 of the 11 which have been at our school since they were five years old.  There's something about having those kind of miles which cannot be replaced.

Part of the experience in going to Chattanooga at the end of the season (as a Nashville team) was getting to miss a little school, a bus ride, overnight in the hotel (hopefully a few nights), and that lovely field at CCS (RIP).  But instead of having multiple matches going on at the same time like a club tournament, there was only one field and one match so whoever was playing was front and center.  We made a point this year that even though the match was only a 35-40 minute bus ride, to make a day of it so our girls could really enjoy the experience and the journey.

No, playing 3 matches in A/AA and AAA within 39 hours is not the end of the world, but so many of the injuries we see are due to over training and not having enough proper rest throughout a season.  Playing 3 high level matches with so much at stake in such a short time certainly cannot be the best thing for these athletes.  Not faulting the TSSAA on this as I'm glad they were actually willing to postpone matches due to field conditions, but in the future I think they should really consider having the girls' tournament on a Tues-Wed-Fri schedule like the boys in the spring so that if weather is an issue, they can move things back a day and still have it finish on Saturday with one day rest between semis and finals.

There has been a AAA girls' team from Williamson County at state since at least 2006.  Having trouble locating records from before then.