FargoStrut

1 hour ago, Humorist said:

And you know where they are weak they’ll shave those points. They’ll play the edge and tie up those wrists. 

EVERY team at the state duals SHOULD have their guys that are the role players doing things like this to minimize takedown opportunities and nearfall points, especially if its early or in the middle of the dual. If any average starter on any team is trying to go toe to toe with an opposing team's stud, I hope it's late in the dual and his team needs him to win to secure the victory. 

14 minutes ago, FR615 said:

Starting to think this account has been hacked. WTF are you talking about?

Not a hacker, it's just an old head. Was actually one of the first to get the Rona before the rest of us had even heard of it and is one of the last to be getting over it. Almost certain he's still got that fog going on.

PackMentality laid out Summit's plan to victory elsewhere. There were some reaches but I've seen lesser plans work before. Cant remember what weight class he had them starting at or who he gave choice to on odd/even matches but this is what I would want if I coached each team. Granted, I have very little idea about kids dropping weight classes if it's very recent.

IMO, Summit should pray they start at 132 where they are strongest, pick up bonus points where they are expected, win the first 4 matches (if Leach goes 150) while picking up bonus in 3 of them. They possibly lead 19-0, and while their big guns are all gone, they make Cleveland wrestle from behind, hope Cleveland has to show first at 165 and 190, flip a match or two, limit bonus for Cleveland in the matches they lose and hope for the best.

Obviously, Cleveland's path to victory is easier due to have more horses in the stable. You want to start at 165 with Summit having odd, they show first there as well as 190. Cleveland wins from 165 thru the turn all the way to 126 picking up bonus in several matches. 165 (pin), 175 (pin), 190 (major), 215 (minor)  285 (minor) ,106 (pin), 113(pin), 120 (minor) 126(pin). Its a race to 43 and the score is now 43-0 Cleveland with only 30 points left to score. Cleveland is able to FF to Summit's big guns at 132, 138, 144, 150 and even 157. 

Thoughts?

48 minutes ago, Humorist said:

Haha…Tygaard himself even said this was the first year he’s had this many wrestlers come out for the team. And they haven’t been to the playoffs in four years. Bahahaha. You make me laugh hysterically. I get it your new to the area or County. But C’mon man those teams right there with those guys wouldn’t even stand up to us. 

Pretty sure this is Tygaard's first year at Cleveland. Guess he was referring to his time at Blackman

20 minutes ago, ArtusCimber said:

Actually that is an error on my part. Cleveland had 131. Sorry. 

I'm an English teacher. What can I say?

10-4, fair enough. The "131" erases the perceived possiblity of a knowledge coach(es) voting "with their heart instead of their brain". 

Being that you're an English teacher, we'll give you a pass on the math portion.

Yes, it DEF baffling and yes, IMO as well, they're #1 in the state of TN.

5 minutes ago, FargoStrut said:

Correct! That's what I was trying to confirm. AT LEAST 2 and possibly 3. If it was only 2 coaches, one of them voted Cleveland as 3RD BEST.

Guess it could've been just 1 and they voted them as 4th.

38 minutes ago, ArtusCimber said:

Sure-The points descend. The coaches vote for 12 teams.  Say they vote Cleveland 1st-They get 12 points. McCallie is voted second-they get 11, and so on, down to the  12th team on their list, who gets one point.

If all eleven coaches voted a team first, they'd get 132 points, hence the power ranking. One week for instance everyone voted summit third, so they got 110 points.

Hope that makes sense. If my math ever gets wonky it's probably because I'm an English teacher and as far from the left side of my brain as is possible. I always defer to Joe Blair when the math gets crazy.

 

Makes perfect sense. Thank you very much for the confirmation!

11 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

So what you're saying is more than one coach actually voted for someone OTHER than cleveland as number 1???

Correct! That's what I was trying to confirm. AT LEAST 2 and possibly 3. If it was only 2 coaches, one of them voted Cleveland as 3RD BEST.

Maximum power ranking of 132.. there are 12 ranked teams... 12×11=132...Artus, am I correct in my assumption that there are most likely 11 coaches from across the state that rank teams 1-12 and assign a point value of 12 points to #1 ranked team, 11pts to #2, on down to 1 point for their #12 ranked team? If my assumption is incorrect, will you please elaborate on how the "power rankings" are scored? Thank you in advance for any info you provide.

20 hours ago, PackMentality said:

This is not a prediction or even likely, but it isn’t outside the realm of possibility.  The problem is everything has to go Summit’s way and Cleveland has so much flexibility in their lineup.

• 150 - Zachery Little (Summit) over Tres Schuft (Cleveland) 0-3
• 157 - Brayden Leach (Summit) over Cy Fowler (Cleveland) 0-6
• 165 - Logan Fowler (Cleveland) over Jackson Szeliga (Summit) 6-6
• 175 - Jayden McKinney (Summit) over Dylan Harold 6-10
• 190 - Lucas Szymborski (Cleveland) over David Demorest (summit) over 9-10
• 215 - Matthew Tchiblakien (Summit) over Gabe Moore 9-16
• 285 - Tyson Russel (Cleveland) over Peters Savarino (Summit) 12-16
• 106 - Jose Cordero (Cleveland) over Jin Suito (Summit) 18-16
• 113 - Chase Walker (Cleveland) over ??? (Summit) 24-16
• 120 - Colt Maughon (Cleveland) over Blaise Masi (Summit) 27-16
• 126 - Zac Bosken (Cleveland) over Simon Masters (Summit) 33-16
• 132 - Jarvis Little (Summit) over Kaden Rice (Cleveland) 33-22
• 138 - Michael Posey (Summit) over Blake Congdon (Cleveland) 33-28
• 144 - Landon Desselle (Summit) ???(Cleveland) 33-34

Biggest outlier I see here is Posey pinning Congdon. There are a few others that IMO are reaches as well and not outside the realm of possibilities but this would be a huge 3 pt swing. He only beat him 5-1 earlier this season. Heck, Jarvis wasn't even able to pin him last season (teched him but couldn't get the 6). Anything can happen and anyone can get caught but that's probably the biggest reach I see in your path to Summit winning. 

1 hour ago, CaptainGuru said:

If Summit Spartans are not careful Cleveland Raiders could mercy rule them this time. Are Landon and Jarvis healthy for the match? David coming over from the private sector helped Summit Spartans a lot too this season. If you look at the results from the last match. It could happen. If Landon and Jarvis are both out this time it will be a mercy rule win for Cleveland Raiders. I guarantee it. Do you want to bet me? I am Captain Guru and I approve this message.

Cap'n G, I'll be the first to admit what we are all thinking but every one of us on these message boards are SO proud of you! And more importantly, we think you should be proud of yourself!! You still got a little ways to go, but you're growing up so fast these days. You have finally asked a pertinent question (health of wrestlers), are beginning to participate in the dialogue, showed you are a VERY knowledgeable wrestling fan by knowing Summit's two most accomplished wrestlers by name, were able to share some past TN wrestling history abt Jarvis AND Landon's previous titles in addition to providing us with the fact that Summit has a new toy at 190. Cap'n, I honestly can't believe it but you're actually growing up right before our eyes! 

10 hours ago, TheTreyB said:

Cleveland beats Summit by 15+

B, you're being a little humble IMO. I think you got em by 21 last time. Granted that was without Demorest in Summit's lineup, but y'alls lineup is better now too with the movement of kids in different weight classes. This movement also gives you a little more flexibility to bump as well. You got 106 and 113 locked down with previous state champs, ability to put a stud at 126 or 132, 2 studs covering any 3 of 157, 165 or 175, ability to put a state champ at 190 or 215, a hammer HWT, very solid kids (including a returning state placer and another likely soon to be) throughout the lineup and a handful of backups that would start at most teams in the state. IMO, If Summit keeps it to 15-18 (excluding forfeits after outcome decided), they got to start at the weight class they hoped, they got choice where they needed/wanted and Pete's guys wrestled their butts off. 

3 hours ago, Bummer90 said:

Idk man Bradley just forfeited the last three matches against a 3rd ranked Blackman team. I think they have some confidence coming into it. It will be a great match 

There's a couple parts to this. First, I honestly believe Blackman was a little overrated all season and a few other large public schools underrated at the same time. That being said, the #3 was obviously, at minimum, slightly inflated. The 2nd part of this is the last 3 weight classes of the dual would've probably been at least +4 and possibly +6 Blackman IMO. That would've still been a very convincing win by BC but made the score appear a little more competitive. Saying all this, I thought Blackman would win but they didn't. 

For starters, he's just gotta get to 115.0 now that its after Christmas. I'm not betting you Speckler, he didn't weigh in light for nothing

On 1/26/2024 at 7:51 PM, cbg said:

This is despicable and sends the wrong message to the kids and parents.  If at all possible you should absolutely never forfeit a match.  People can say whatever they want but a forfeit because you may have the odds stacked against you is not the mentally tough attitude that kids need to have.

Gonna make a football analogy for a few of my peeps on here. BC down 17-0 with abt 30 seconds left in the 2nd quarter, facing a 4th and 20 from their own 25 yd line. Do you go for it bc you "may" score? NO, you punt and hope to take it to the half down only 17-0, possibly make some adjustments, hopefully execute better and come back in the 2nd half with a better chance to win than if you were to have went for it. BC advanced AT LEAST one more "game" further in the "playoffs" possibly in part to their staff being focused on the big picture instead of a single (play) match that very easily could've been detrimental to the team (injuries, morale, etc) accomplishing another goal. Now, they have the opportunity and somewhat decent shot at a silver trophy. Will they be able to earn it? Probably not, but I guarantee you it's a whole lot better chance than most teams have next weekend. Add in the fact of being on the side opposite Cleveland, their chance of advancing to the finals could very well be better than a couple of teams that are better than them.

FYI- Next weekend, BC will be facing the exact same situation except this time it's getting late in the 4th quarter and their playoff hopes are on the line. DON'T expect any more "punts".

2 hours ago, cbg said:

This is despicable and sends the wrong message to the kids and parents.  If at all possible you should absolutely never forfeit a match.  People can say whatever they want but a forfeit because you may have the odds stacked against you is not the mentally tough attitude that kids need to have.

With all due respect to everyone involved, I believe the message was sent and received a couple weeks ago. I have ZERO affiliation with BC and was merely speculating as to why they would forfeit. When your "best case scenario" is losing in the 50-12 ballpark range and coming away with everyone healthy (could very easily lose 70-0 and have one or 2 kids get injured), you "punt" on the dual and take your chances with a completely healthy region runner-up team and hope like heck that you can knock off the opposite region's champ for the opportunity to go to the state tournament. One can only assume that the BC coach and his staff made a decision that they felt was in the best interest of their team. I would COMPLETELY agree with you if their dual was semi-competitive a few weeks ago, but gonna have to disagree here. 

10 hours ago, TheTreyB said:

So they decided to FF… I’d like to hear the reasons for it. 

Their coaching staff is smart enough to know which battle(s) could possibly be winnable and which ones are not.

24 minutes ago, TalkingSense said:

So far looks like

Region 1:

1. DB

2, Science Hill

 

Region 2: (happening tonight 1/25)

Winner of Halls vs HVA

Winner of Maryville vs Powell

 

Region 3: (happening tonight 1/25)

Winner of Cleveland vs East Hamilton 

Winner of Bradley vs Walker Valley

 

Region 4:  (happening tonight 1/25)

Winner of Blackman vs Warren Co

Oakland vs Stewarts Creek

I believe these are correct

 

Region 5: (happening tonight 1/25)

Winner of Hendersonville vs Green Hill

Winner of Cookeville vs Millington Central

I believe these are correct

 

Region 6: (happening tonight 1/25)

Top 2 out of Brentwood, Nolensville, Ravenwood, and Summit

 

Region 7: (happening tonight 1/25)

Top 2 out of Clarksville, Kirkwood, Northwest, and West Creek

 

Region 8:

1. Bartlett

2. Arlington

Pretty sure Millington is probably Region 8 in small school. Not sure who the other team is from Region 5 large school but positive it wont be Millington. Historically, Wilson Central has usually came from this region so that would be my first guess. Not sure if they have the team they usually have but we'll see soon. 

33 minutes ago, Bump11 said:

someone doesn't understand sarcasm. obviously she wouldn't be able to compete at the tip top of the boys side 

but you're lying to yourself if you think she wouldn't be able to hold her own against a decent portion. let me guess, you think you would whoop her too since you're a big manly man lolol 

Your sarcasm (or lack thereof) in the original statement was not very evident. Hence, the reply from Mr. Grassman who is more of an expert witness on this topic than either of us are. You were beginning to sound like you thought there are more than 2 genders. Or maybe only 1.?

Back to the topic- If Coop is on the table, I'll  take him all day and twice on Sunday.

Coop not an option in the P4P rankings, give me JoJo on the last day of a national tournament 

Piper would for sure pin your little @$$ 

1 hour ago, Bump11 said:

would love to see her against the top guys around her weight. the real question is, what’s the over/under on the amount of guys who decline to wrestle her because they don’t want to lose to a girl lol

Bump, just stop. I enjoy watching any of the Fowler's wrestle, Piper included. That being said, she's not 10 anymore and wouldn't be wrestling in the midget, junior or even MS divisions. If she were to wrestle "the top guys" ( TN HS at that) around her weight, I think you would finally be convinced as to why many people including myself despise men trying to compete in women's sports. There's a reason why there are men and women's divisions. 

#Grow Women's Wrestling 

1 hour ago, Whoweft said:

I should have worded this better. I don't want any kids to get in trouble. My point was, Baylor is so far ahead of McCallie that I could not see how two kids missing the dual would change the result.  

I expect that if Baylor is not permitting two of its expected state champions to wrestle McCallie, it must be a serious matter. 

 

Weft, I honestly think it would've been a closer match than what you're giving McCallie credit for. Here's why I say that. I  think McCallie should win at lower couple weights and upper few weights with relative ease.? McCallie also possibly wins another weight class or perhaps 2 depending on the flip/lineups. Baylor would have been favored and expected to dominate through the middle of the lineup and the McCallie's kids jobs would have been to limit bonus points for Baylor. When you take away expected bonus points in two matches and possibly give up bonus in those 2 matches of a "somewhat" close dual, it very well could be the difference between winning and losing. 

2 hours ago, Whoweft said:

I think this thing  may denote sarcasm- but I am too old (or dense) to know for sure.  Maybe that was a dumb question. 

My main questions still stand--why no DII ratings and who is the best in the state at each weight (particularly the heavier ones)? 

Weft, I'll give you my best guess. I'm not affiliated with any private school but I do enjoy and follow TN HS wrestling. This is without any knowledge of who may/may not drop and is just off the top of my head. I may be forgetting someone but these kids will finish very high on the podium.

175- Drake Bowers, Christian Bros HS

190- Jay Eversole, Lakeway Christian HS, who appeared injured in finals of Ryan tournament. Hopefully, he gets healed soon

Behind him or if he isn't able to compete, Brody Belville (BA) and Javon McMahon sp? (McCallie)

215- Ryder "Tiny" Smith -Chattanooga Christian School

285- Carson Gentle - McCallie

*again, I'm just going off the top of my head without putting much work into this and I apologize if I forgot someone, but these few kids should win or be near the top of the podium in their weight classes.

2 hours ago, desselle said:

Doc B is one of the tougher HS tournaments. It’s up there with Powerade, Beast and others 

Very well could be the toughest "in-season" tournament west of Walsh Ironman. Ohio powerhouse St. Ed's went out there a couple weeks ago and had 6 kids in the semis. I believe they went 2-4. Of the 2 that advanced to the finals, only 1 came out on top and he'll be wrestling at the University of Illinois next season.

1 hour ago, GruncleD said:

I don't know about all that, but I do know that after 12 matches Cleveland forfeited out to beat Summit in last year's state duals. Cleveland's closest matches were to the team 5 miles down the road, Bradley Central. However after last night it appears that rivalry may not be as intense as in the past.

What part do you not know abt? Is it the part that in the semis against Summit, Cleveland was only able to forfeit the last match of the dual (against Desselle mind you) because they held on for a very close decision in the next to last match. If they lose that close decision, they're faced with needing a victory against Desselle to advance to the finals. Or was it the part that Cleveland was able to forfeit 2 of the last 3 matches against BC in the finals and still secure the championship by 6?