oceansize42

41 minutes ago, durdon said:

The D2 coaches use the OW award in D2 as a wrestler of the year award and the D2 OW award is not related to tournament performance.  Not saying that it’s the correct criteria but that’s the way they handle it.  At least with D2 you can define why they give out the OW award to a particular wrestler each year. 
 

It would be nice if the D2 coaches had a Wrestler of the year award and a separate Tournament OW award. 

Well that is interesting.  What is the actual criteria for OW at D2?  Points, wins, strength of schedule? Cut and dry with no subjective element? Win/loss ratio?  Definitely seems odd that the most important tournament of the year plays no role in the selection process.  You are saying the votes are cast before the tournament even begins?  If it is cut and dry with actual definitive criteria then that should probably be emulated, but I'm interested to know for sure it is really neat and clean.

3 minutes ago, Chalupaking said:

Ocean, was your comment directed at Durden’s comments or mine? You replied to mine so my response would be in D2, I believe Peterson or Harper should have won it. Since there is no criteria for such an award, we are stuck with the way it is and has been for years. 

To you since you made me aware of the scenario in D2 but I was definitely poking durdon a bit for the double standard since durdon was hanging his hat on Cody pinning his way through where as Tre had a 17-2 TF.  In fairness durdon is also saying 145 was harder but for me, meh, splitting hairs.

1 hour ago, Chalupaking said:

If pinning your way through tournament is your guidelines then the stud on your team shouldn’t have won MOW 3 years in a row since he didn’t pin his way through the tournament once. Still one of the best and love to watch him on the mat but definitely not the best overall in the State Tournament. Coaches/voters are biased in this State and all one has to do is look at the results. 

LoL.  I just saw that Baylor's 145 stud pinned his way through but didn't win MOW while McCallie's 170 had not one but two TFs and won MOW.   I guess that wasn't worth complaining about.  No conspiracies in D2 land.  Now don't go getting mad because I know how good Whitworth is and I'm not mad at all as I'm sure he deserved it, 100%, but I do find it funny that one of the main arguments was Tre not pinning his way through.  Jeebus....

13 minutes ago, Mason422 said:

I personally hate that coaches vote on MOW. It just makes it a popularity contest, I wish it was based on some type of criteria.  
 

Case and point, Kodiak Cannedy of Greenville has pinned his way through 3 state tourneys and hasn’t ever given up an offensive point.  That young man is yet to win a MOW award.  If that isn’t dominant I don’t know what is, but a kid who wins a close match in the finals will win it. Just a little baffling to me 

 

Sid Mason

Now this I agree with (establishing criteria).  If things really are that bad then everyone should lobby for some sort of criteria.  

Who won AA Sid? I'm not looking to knock anybody just curious.

Never mind, I found out who won it in AA.  

1 hour ago, DAKEKO said:

This Fowler is not a twin.  

Willett did not miss weight. He blew out part of his lung the day b4 state and couldn't keep his oxygen levels up. 

Please get your facts straight. 

And Cody would probably pin Tre in the 160 final, even with the bad knee. Might tech pin him. 

Fowler? I'm talking about the Fisher brothers, Landon and Logan, from Jefferson County.  Cody wrestled Landon and Tre wrestled Logan.

Yeah, sorry about Willett.  Was unaware on that one.

Who cares about matchups that didn't happen.  I'm really surprised about the amount of well "Cody is the best wrestler there talk".  Does anyone believe he wasn't?  Am I missing something?  Do you believe your announcing brand new information that Cody is the number 1 in the nation at 145?  That he couldn't win any weight class he wanted?  Dang guys.  Everyone assume everyone else is dumb?

1 hour ago, WrestlingGod said:

He spent two days in the hospital. Come on now. We should be talking about how awful the kids luck is, not assuming we know things because he wasn't there.

Don't read into it.  That was no slight on Willett at all and I was unaware he was in the hospital.   I'm not here to belittle any of these young men as I know they all work really hard.

I would like to see a break down of placers by region from recent past state individual tournaments before I committed to a particular option.    Whatever is done has to account for the fact that some of the regions are less than good when evaluated as a whole.  I'm probably in the camp that says let a high number of kids go so that there isn't situations where a deserving kid who is third or fourth place in his region and simultaneously third or fourth in the state doesn't get left out.   Getting that kid the opportunity to medal is more important than not devaluing the label of state qualifier in my opinion.   

4 hours ago, durdon said:

This is where I still have issue with Cody not getting the OW.  If you take Cody out of the Tournament, I think we would all agree that 45 was the 2nd toughest weight class behind 32.  Braxton ended up not placing in this bracket so that shows you how tough this weight was. If you add in Cody, then 45 was the toughest overall weight class at state. 

Cody was the only state champ that had to defeat 3 returning medalist to win his title.  Again, he was the only State champ in the tournament to beat 3 returning medalist.  And, he was the only person to pin his way through the tournament.  
 

I can see the argument that Bradford should have gotten it.  He did have to beat two returning state medalist in the 2nd toughest weight.  But, Bradford had two close decisions. 

Tre I still don’t see. Tre didn’t beat a single returning state medalist and he didn’t pin his way through his bracket at a weight that objectively wouldn’t even be considered one of the top 8 toughest weights this year.  
 

I still fail to see how what Cody accomplished wasn’t the most impressive performance at the tournament.  He PINNED everyone, he was the only Champ to beat 3 returning state medalist, and he did it in the toughest weight class at state this year.  

His only negative was that he is so much better than everyone else at his weight he made it look to easy which ended up taking away from how impressive what he accomplished was.  

Tre spent 6 less minutes on the mat so his wins were more dominant.  Quick pins are better than less quick pins. It isn't Tre's fault that Cockman, fourth at 145 last year, was defeated early and thereby depriving him of the opportunity to beat a prior medalist.   Willett, a returning medalist, unfortunately was injured prior to the tournament.  Cody and Tre wrestled twin brothers in the finals with obviously similar abilities and Tre looked better by pinning Logan in 1 minute and 8 seconds (over two minutes faster than Cody pinned Landon).   Tre was simply more impressive in his victories than Cody was and my guess would be this is why he won.  There is something to blowing your opponents out of the water quickly and Tre did a better job of that in many people's eyes.   Having re-watched the matches Tre made it look easier, significantly so, than Cody did.  I don't think their opponents skill difference was enough to justify six extra minutes of mat time.  

Additionally 152 was a bees nest with many, many good kids. Hurst,  Laxton, Ables, Brenot, Clemmons, etc.  Fisak dropped to 45 even with Chittum there.  If 160 was as easy as you claim why didn't any of them go to 160?  The reason was Tre Morrisette.  

21 minutes ago, GoTNwrestling said:

And that’s the point I’m trying to make. I can see why each coach voted for any of those wrestlers. I don’t think this is a dig at a certain wrestler or team, but who impressed

Agreed.

Hanlon's Razor: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".   

In this particular case I would change it to "Don't assume a wide spread conspiracy exists when the choices are not clear cut and several good options exist".

Just now, WrestlingGod said:

You gotta think Trey Bates and Hunter Borders would probably be in the mix too since they each picked up their third.

Fair point.  Tough choices.

59 minutes ago, GoTNwrestling said:

Do we know who placed 2nd in the MOW?

I don't know that information.  For me I think the choice would be Bradford at 132 for navigating shark infested waters.  Third place probably a tie between Chittum and Trae McDaniel.  Fifth would have been Jackson Hurst.

28 minutes ago, JSamson7 said:

All factual and I'm not a Region 4 guy.

You or the other guy produce a list of MOW winners from the last 25 years and a break down on how it was impossible for the wrestler who won it to even be in consideration, or any other kid outside region 4 to be in consideration, and that a legitimate argument doesn't exist for said wrestler winning MOW.   Not just one or two outliers but an identifiable trend that clearly illustrates, beyond personal feelings, the many many instances of bias against region 4. 

When somebody produces that list and arguments therein we will declare it "factual".   The problem, of course, is there are typically many wrestlers who are deserving.  Ergo every year there exists a set of coaches who more than likely feel "cheated".

3 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

It’s like we had on another post the metro teams vote for metro and such at their own tournaments and the same goes with going against Region 4 wrestlers in years past. I’m not a Cleveland fan or a Bradley fan at all, matter as fact I hated them growing up as I wrestled for Soddy, but there’s been bias against Region 4 wrestlers winning this award for 25 years. Sorry you aren’t smart enough to see or know it but that’s a you problem. Tre had an easy tournament because his class was easy plain and simple. 160 was an easy weight class but I guess it doesn’t matter to people and so “MOW” goes to the one who pinned their way through in the quickest time, no matter if the weight class was a breeze to get through. Again it doesn’t matter in the end we will see who has the better career and high school achievements end up meaning very little! Congrats to Tre and good job on his 2nd state title!

Here in lies the problem.  You think a majority, or a least a good sized minority, is actively seeking to ruin a young wrestlers career and deprive them of notoriety.  Simply because you and a few others are convinced of this nonsense doesn't make it true.  People think the earth is flat, Elvis and Tupac live,  and that 5g causes COVID.  Your incorrect assumptions have not been my experience.  I'm personally amazed at the wrestling abilities of the Cleveland team as a whole.  An incredible amount of hard work has been done by those young men.  I and the vast majority of people wish them the most success possible because that level lifts the entire state.   Cleveland proved beyond all doubt they had the best dual team in AAA.   

tl;dr

You are confusing a small minority, who have always existed, with the majority.  Most coaches, in my experience, are good and decent people who want the cream to rise.   Most fans want the cream to rise.  

12 minutes ago, fooseball95 said:

Your right we will stay away from the popularity contests and keep winning the championships

Call out all the programs that are out to get you then.   A couple of you are saying Tre didn't earn it enough.  Who is this mysterious "they" who cost Cleveland?   What percentage of the coaches across the state are out to "get" the wrestlers of Cleveland?  1%? 5%? 10%? 50%? Is it everyone? Highlight them above.  Let us know.  Lay down the facts.

9 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

Let’s be real. Tre is a great wrestler and he did very well and won another state title. However his weight was at best average if not below. Was kind of surprised about that but the only other 2 prior medalist were low returning placers and really not all that impressive. Heck Cody wrestled first round a better kid compared to anyone in 160 besides Tre. Of course I also don’t think MOW has ever really went to the actual best wrestler at the tourney, it’s been a political and beauty pageant between coaches which sucks for the kids but most that haven’t won it that should have done very well after high school wrestling so I’m sure their feelings weren’t hurt. 

Here are the 59 AAA, other than Cleveland, teams at the event.  Please highlight all the programs below that are out to "get" Cody, Cleveland, or the Chattanooga area in general.  In this way we can all share in your outrage and be "mind boggled" that Tre won.

Wilson Central
Bradley Central
Dobyns Bennett
Summit
Blackman
Beech     
Jefferson
Arlington     
Knoxville Halls
Houston
Cookeville
Rossview
Walker Valley
Anderson Co.     
Collierville     
Maryville     
Oakland
Page     
Bearden     
Green Hill     
Heritage
Lebanon     
Munford     
Clarksville
Franklin     
Bartlett     
Independence
Siegel     
McMinn Co.
David Crockett     
Mt. Juliet
Cocke Co.     
Tullahoma     
East Hamilton     
Science Hill     
Brentwood     
Warren Co.     
Volunteer     
Centennial     
Coffee County     
Morristown-Hamblen West     
Hardin Valley Academy     
Hendersonville
John Overton     
Seymour     
South Doyle     
Stewarts Creek     
Farragut     
West     
Clinton     
Karns     
Morristown-Hamblen East
Powell
Ravenwood     
Rhea Co.     
Sevier Co.     
Shelbyville Central     
Spring Hill     
Stone Memorial 

35 minutes ago, durdon said:

Cody scored 30 points, how many points did Tre score?  It wasn’t 30 because he wasn’t able to pin all of his opponents.  You see in wrestling as much as you want to dismiss pins, you actually get more points for pins because pins are harder to earn than any other victory.
 
Chittum scored the maximum amount of points possible and he was the only wrestler in the tournament to do that.  

THE ONLY WRESTLER IN THE TOURNAMENT TO HAVE A PERFECT SCORE.  

Now you want to justify Tre getting the OW over Chittum cause he worked super hard. Next you will tell me Tre deserved it because he had a shinier singlet.  Please, save it.  
 

The math is simple. Chittum scored the most points and he deserved the OW.  

And you continue to attempt to diminish Tre's accomplishment and spout conspiracy theories. You are piece of work. 

33 minutes ago, durdon said:

This would be a valid argument if Tre had pinned everyone but he wasn’t able to pin all of his Opponents so the time on the mat doesn’t matter.  
The only wrestler in tournament to pin all of his opponents was Chittum.  Let me repeat that, the only wrestler to pin all of his opponents was Chittum. 
 

He should have been the OW.  How anyone can justify giving the OW to a kid who scored less points and wasn’t able to pin all of his opponents is mind-boggling.  
 

I get the Cleveland jealousy but let’s be real. 

Cody pinned one more kid than Tre (Tre TF the other kid 17-2) and spent 6 more minutes on the mat and this is mind boggling?  That is definitely the dumbest thing I've read today.  The only mindboggling thing is how you actually believe there was some conspiracy.  Everyone I talk to is ridiculously proud of Cody Chittum and everyone is very aware of how hard he works.  There was no robbery here.  Just hard work and an earned MOW by Tre.

What is crazy is that people, like yourself, want to diminish a talented wrestlers obviously outstanding effort with conspiracy theories.  Jesus....

Just now, fooseball95 said:

Cody will purposely point u to death in the first and second periods then pin you in the 3rd when he wants. He could have pinned every round within the first second if needed.

Again who cares, even if you are correct then that is his fault for showboating and not taking care of the task at hand which Tre did. 

Just now, fooseball95 said:

I’m also looking at the fact that Cody pinned all the way through. Tre didn’t. Who wins if Cody wrestled 160?

Tre earned, absolutely earned it.  Who cares who wins in a fantasy matchup.  

27 minutes ago, fooseball95 said:

Chittum should have won MOW tssaa is something else. No matter what Cody did, tssaa wasn’t gonna let him when it lol

No.  Tre spent 8 minutes and 34 seconds on the mat.  Cody spent 14 minutes and 14 seconds.  There wasn't enough of a difference in opposition skill level to account for almost 6 minutes.  Tre earned that fair and square and for you to say otherwise is foolish.

When I was a young man what I really wanted was my mom on the wrestling board.  Jeebus.

Braxton Mann defeated by Cook.  No medal wow.

Good for a little while and then constant buffering for a little while.

Clint has had a rough go since one of his knees has been pretty severely injured for the past four to five weeks.  Not sure how much training he has been able to do.

152 Hunter Mckenna over Ables