SportsWestTN

@WestTNroundball and someone else on here were high on him in one of the other posts on here.

39 minutes ago, dogtruth said:

I guess it's just two ways of looking at things here. I have watched too many teams shoot their lead away late in the game and lose.  They really didn't take high-percentage shots and ended up giving the other team an opportunity to beat them. My belief is late in the game you need to value the basketball and take nothing but a lay up or free throws when you have the lead.

Again I'm not saying you're wrong though it's just we have different opinions on how a team should  try to win. Thanks for the discussion.

I dont disagree with what you are saying is the smart thing to do. With no shot clock why should you shoot? Football teams run the ball when they are trying to ice a lead for the same reason. The difference is football has a play clock. You have to continue to take snaps. With no shot clock in basketball you dont have to give the ball back unless they foul you.

Too often teams actually are hurt by playing slow with a lead IMO. It takes them out of their rhythm. If you are up by 15 points on a team why suddenly change the way you are playing? Why not continue to play the same way that gave you that lead rather than playing not to lose? I think it develops bad habits to stop playing with a lead. Plus it isnt fun to watch.

2 hours ago, dogtruth said:

I understand your point and I agree 45 seconds is long enough for an offense to be ran well and force the defense into making a mistake.

Hampton rarely holds the ball for more than 45 seconds either however they will do that if they have say a lead with three to four minutes to go in the game and force their opponent into a fouling situation. I guess I hate to see that part of game strategy taken away with the shot clock.

What would you think about turning the shot clock off with less than 5 minutes to go in a game? Just throwing another possibility out there. Also I know that a team takes a risk holding the ball in that situation but Hampton has won many more games that way rather than losing them.

I wouldnt. One of the benefits of having a shot clock is that it forces teams to keep playing even when they have a lead late. I dont want to watch five minutes of teams intentionally fouling. It is going to happen down the stretch of close games even with a shot clock. I dont think it is good basketball when a team just stops playing because they are winning. Slowing things down is fine. But not a fan when teams just refuse to shoot because they are too afraid of losing their lead.

14 hours ago, dogtruth said:

I've enjoyed reading both sides of this discussion and both sides make good points. One other observation I will point out is in regards to small rural schools.

When Hampton High played Memphis Mitchell in the state tourney in 2015 for example, they tried to limit possessions on offense but MM made it tough to do with their high pressure man to man.  Hampton lost by 15 but my point is that was the only way Hampton could play against that type of talent and have a chance to win. If there would have been a shot clock, Hampton would have been blowed out of the gym. 

Most rural single A schools rarely have more than 2 to 3 good players and a few role players. If they learn good ball handling fundamentals and how to play as a team on defense, they have a shot at defeating a more talented team. Personally, I would rather watch a fundamentally sound, well-coached team over one that just runs and guns and fires the three every position. 

Now with that being said if Hampton had 10 to 15 athletes that could run the floor then they would probably play a run-and-gun style of fast-paced offense too but unfortunately these small rural schools don't have that many athletes to play that style. Just another observation thrown out there.

I understand, somewhat, that argument. 

My argument back is that if a team is truly fundamentally sound they should be able to still be successful. We arent talking about an NBA shot clock where you have two passes and then a shot. Plenty of slower paced offenses can still succeed with a shot clock. If you get a rebound the shot clock resets too. The difference is you couldnt just hold the ball without shooting for a minute and a half. When you do that it is just gambling that you can luck up and win if you limit the possessions enough.

Ive seen lots of rural teams that have beaten athletic teams. Some can run with them. Some have to utilize other strategies. When it comes down to it talent normally comes out on top though.

4 hours ago, pioneer42 said:

I hadn’t watched South Gibson a ton but always have thought they could do really well pressing a lot and playing fast because the very little that they did press they did well. Problem is they rarely pressed therefore they obviously didn’t practice press a lot and would fall apart against teams like South Side and Gibson County when they full court pressed and hit them in the mouth.  South Gibson needs to be the one that hits teams in the mouth. They won’t have a big post as far as I know and hadn’t several years. Embry will have to hold them accountable in practice in a big way for fundamental mistakes and run run run and get them disciplined and mentally tough. They were playing better and hired a good strength and conditioning coach last year. I think they have some talent on the team and younger talent coming up. They just need to live it as much as they can and change their culture and I think they will see a big difference.

The times Ive seen them they havent looked well conditioned. Hard to press when you are winded playing normal defense. 

9 hours ago, TryNotToSuck said:

If schools are installing turf fields for their football stadiums and indoor batting cages for their baseball/softball season to use during the winter months, then I am positive they can afford a shot clock. Who will operate the shot clock, I would assume an official that calls the JV game will stay and operate a shot clock. From what I've heard, basketball officials are as "short" when it comes to officiating compared to other sports throughout the state. 

It's a doable thing, I think we're overreacting with the amount of questions and stuff. If a H.S. runs a regular offseason, it shouldn't take over 35 seconds. That's just me. But I never kept track of that even though I might do that this upcoming season. 

I'll never forget when Greenfield stalled the game last year in the region tournament because Darby was in foul trouble. No one paid $5-8 dollars of admission to watch a team hold a ball for a minute. I'm glad we're at this point.

Everywhere Ive been the JV officials are the ones that call the varsity game as well. You are correct that there is enough money available to pay someone (at most places) but the complaint is they wont want to have to pay someone to do it. That isnt where they want to spend their money. In the end it will mainly come down to if they want the shot clock or not. Money will just be the excuse.

15 hours ago, pioneer42 said:

Nothing wrong with multi-sport players for school sports. Travel softball has been a sport at South Gibson since it has been there. Basketball world needs to keep rolling regardless if some kids play other sports. Gibson County has five and four in rotation that plays softball and they play with whoever they have and they do it well. Basketball needs to keep rolling and the others will have to catch up or be left behind if you want to win a Gold Ball. I think she will do well but it won’t be easy.

I think she'll get the kids in the gym as much as possible which is the change they need. Will be interesting to see what they look like next season.

2 hours ago, pioneer42 said:

From what I heard most of the team hadn’t been doing a lot other than maybe conditioning for about three months other than the one’s playing AAU. It is not like she is walking into Loretto, Gibson County or Westview. A culture change is needed. It will be interesting. I know they have had a limited roster in past with girls playing other sports, which is OK but you don’t want the prisoners in charge of the asylum either. She will have to find her some basketball players and roll. I do think she will do well but she is definitely not walking into the situation she did at Summertown in 2018. Apples and oranges.

Based on her reputation she will make them come in and work which is what those kids need. They will be pushed. SG wont ever be a place like the ones you mentioned where you have a nearly full team of girls that just play basketball. Other sports are too big there. You can be successful with multisport players. That might be new for her but if she gets them in the gym theyll get a lot better.

41 minutes ago, pioneer42 said:

Just curious. I didn’t know if she was finishing the school year out there or not. I hadn’t heard if she is in South Gibson yet or not.

I've heard she has been back and forth some. Im sure shes gotta get everything moved. Not like Summertown is real close.

2 hours ago, pioneer42 said:

No doubt he is well respected and he won’t encourage it for sure. Just saying a serious basketball parent might seriously consider it especially 8th grader or 7th if their by laws don’t require them to move houses. 

There is also enough basketball talent in Dyersburg he shouldnt have to pull kids away from Dyer Co. You might seem some trickle over but he should be able to do fine if he can get kids that are already in the system to come play.

22 minutes ago, pioneer42 said:

It actually works in Gibson County’s favor a lot playing slow because as a rule we have good post and play solid defense but I personally can’t stand it. Westview and Gleason refuse to play fast and I think both coaches are good one’s, but to this day that is always talked about at the coffee shop why they play slow.Westview has had some serious talent go through there the last 10-12 years. 

Playing slow leads for very little margin for error. Less possessions means your mistakes get amplified. Dangerous game to play.

1 hour ago, Fan15 said:

I don't necessarily think it is needed.  There are a lot more bad teams than there are good ones.  Shot clock would make it worse.  I have seen teams hold it for last shot and stall and to me, thats part of strategy.  If you don't like it, then don't let teams do it.

There are stories from back in the day where games finished with a final score of 4 to 2 because both teams just held the ball. I agree that slowing down the game should be part of strategy but there is a point where holding the ball stops being a basketball game. A team shouldnt have to start fouling with four or five minutes left in the game to get the ball back just because the other team is content to sit on the ball. 45 second shot clock still gives you a chance to milk more than enough clock but still forces you to play. 

19 hours ago, pioneer42 said:

I would bet you will have two teams that will not want it and they are Westview and Gleason. Both of them love playing slow half court basketball. 

There are a lot of teams that will resist it but these would definitely be two. Shot clock is needed but will meet too much opposition.

16 hours ago, tradertwo said:

Can't say about stability, but Northcutt can coach...Northside's annual position in the district standings is about to improve. The Lady Indians are getting a classy guy too, I hope that they try to keep him in house rather than run him out through lack of support.

Northcutt is a really good coach. The move to NS is a surprise. As long as South Side is taking the top Jackson kids it will be an uphill battle for NS. 

1 hour ago, GrumpyBulldog said:

Ayers to USJ is happening. Wonder how this will affect their status in the Insell AAU family.

Never a good look when you accept a job and then quit it a week later.

23 minutes ago, pioneer42 said:

Who is going to pay for the clocks?? I am for a 45 second clock or 40.

Would have to come out of gate or paid by booster clubs. Thats why people wouldnt want to pay it. Already places that complain about having to pay officials as much as they do.

16 minutes ago, WestTNroundball said:

*Breaking News*

 

Joel Ayers to USJ

 

He just accepted job at Riverdale. Did he change his mind? Source?

9 minutes ago, fredjones said:

You have a source of trained clock operators with your football officials.  Pay them $50.00 for a doubleheader and they will be Chomping at the bits to work.  

Problem is having to pay someone. Lots of places have volunteers at the scorer's table. Yes the solution is to pay people but many places are resistant to that idea.

15 minutes ago, HCHSladyPats said:

a minute? might as well not have one

I agree. 45 seconds is pushing the limits. Think you can make a case for 35, 40, or 45. Anything other than that is too fast or too slow.

1 hour ago, logcabinman said:

I am for a shot clock, however, I do understand the task of getting someone to man it.  I agree,  It is hard enough for some schools to get someone to keep the clock.  It will be very difficult to do both.

I am also ok with a 45 sec. boys clock and a 1:00 girls clock.  This way you can use some strategy with a slow down game, but still are not holding the ball for 2:00 minutes or so.  Macon Co. was very successful using the hold on tactic this year.

I watched a game last year where one team literally held the ball for 2:30 down by 1 at the end of the game to try and get the last shot. I understand the strategy but to me that isnt what basketball should be. 35 seconds does seem a touch quick but I think a minute is too long. 45 seconds seems like a good time at least to start. Once teams and coaches get a handle on how to play with the shot clock you could look at reducing the time. 

Another benefit of adding a shot clock is that it helps prepare kids for playing college ball.

46 minutes ago, RodgerDodger32 said:

This may be a dumb question, but with adding a shot clock, will they have to have an extra official to run it or is it something that can be done by itself?

Have to have someone at scorers table run it. This is one of the reasons people will fight it in TN. Hard enough to get people to run the scoreboard and fill out the book. Now youll need someone to do shot clock too unless your scoreboard person can handle both.

11 hours ago, mondo44 said:

35 sec shot clock was passed today by the NFHS beginning with the 22-23 season. States will have the option to adopt or decline

Need Tennessee to accept this but I expect they wont. Pace of play for some of these schools has gotten so slow and it is painful to watch. I expect it wont get adopted in TN because of cost and people not wanting change.

11 minutes ago, sportslover88 said:

Westview and Gibson Co have to battle Loretto and Summertown at substate before you can just say they will make it to state. It will be a state tournament before they can even make it to the state tournament

Very true! Not to discount either of those two especially since they played in title last year. Should have said they are State caliber teams instead.

Anyone hearing any intel on USJ or Dyersburg openings?

24 minutes ago, GCPioneer said:

This post aged well....

Good scoop @GCPioneer! Will be interesting to see how it works out. She can definitely coach