OnlineLC

USJ deserved to win this one. CPA just did not seem to be in the game for the first 3 quarters. USJ have a really young team but outplayed us fair and square. Appeared to be a few injuries Eric Holt for CPA was hurting bad and limping, the USJ QB was also carried off. [Edited by OnlineLC on 8-30-02 10:59P]

Exclusivity sounds real good to me.

I thought the coverage they provided on Channel 27 was excellent. I thoroughly enjoyed watching this game whilst catching up on some work items.

Make that White House 35, Portland 7 at the start of the 4thQ

White House about to score again up 28-7

ELA, You have made a point that I think is very valid here and I was not aware of, namely number of coaches. I will freely admit that if you have 5-6 coaches working drills with the team, it is going to be far more effective than you and one other person trying to share yourself across the lines, the QB's, Secondaries etc etc. Are you allowed to use voluntary help? The reason I ask I have a friend that was a QB at a small college and he recently offered to help with a 3A school where his son plays and really received no encouragement at all to participate. I also agree with VolGen on the Urban/Rural demographics, most transplants to the Tennessee are going to come to the cities and not the Moore Counties etc. Most of these transplants are not necessarilly good athletes, however if they are and football is important to them they will try and select a good program. I still think BA, MBA, BGA and the succesful larger 4A, 5A schools would be a bigger pull than the CPA's, FRA's, Ezells if that was the only reason. [Edited by OnlineLC on 8-29-02 7:25P]

ELA, I do have some questions with regard to your last post. If Public Schools can have a dry spell (ie South Pittsburg), why would the same not be true of a Private School? As I have said before most of the kids start in Kindergarten, just like a Public School, some years the kids will not be as athletic as others and the coach has to make do with the talent he has. We do not have a resource list where we can fill the school with athletic students to cover for a bad year in Football. As I have said time and time again it comes down to coaching. I'm sure on average, student for student, Hillwood and Hillsboro are very similar year in year out, yet who by far has the best Football Program? Satterfield had lean years but still did well, CPA, Ezell will also likely be lean in the future but will still play well even if they don't win the whole thing. South Pitt is well coached and their example is somewhat of a fluke losing so many key players all at once a couple of years back. FRA had a lean year last year but are rebuilding a strong team. In other words, Schools of 1A size public or private will have seasons which are tough, this is where the coaching really shines through. I simply do not understand your argument that you would prefer to lose to Trousdale over Ezell? I know the Wayne County folks would much prefer to lose to CPA than to Collinwood? We all have our preferences as to who we would least likely lose to, it's human nature. Your fear is obviously losing to a Private School because you have strong views on the issue...that is your right. If any team beats you 55-0, I would expect them to do it with dignity, not just Trousdale, if they have a good program they will also bring you good gate receipts also.

StanTrott, I certainly understand your comment about a foe of my enemy must be my friend. Too bad that this also works out to be the case in World Politics a lot as well. One thing I really should mention, I would be 100% in support of a 1.5 (or even 2) multiplier. Thay would put many of us in 2A (even with a 2 multiplier). I think this factor would more than address some of the benefits that the privates are perceived to have. To make things balanced, you would probably have to juggle some of the smaller 2A schools into 1A. Unfortunately as we all know, this would not kill the debate. [Edited by OnlineLC on 8-28-02 2:01P]

StanTrott: It's amazing that I now find myself in the midst of this debate as I have for the most part watched it from the sidelines over the last few months. As in all debates, there are some areas where we will agree and others where we won't. Here are some of my fundamental beliefs on the topic: a) Small 1A Schools (Public or Private) will always find it tough to compete in 1A Football as statistically the pool of talent is always going to work against you. The difference beween the smallest 1A and largest 1A is vast compared to the differences in smallest and largest in other classifications. Lighthouse and Red Boiling Springs are great examples of this. At the same time, these teams are willing to field a squad every year, the kids work and play hard and I trust they still enjoy themselves and get experiences that will last them a lifetime. Some towns, communities, schools select to put their emphasis on other sports. This is true of both Public and Private. It is extremely tough for any school to be dominant in all sports, they usually chose their favorite. We have to remember that this discussion is mainly on the topic of Football, which for the most part is the sport we on this board care about the most. I think ELA finds himself at a Basketball Focused School, if that is the case then he does have a bit of an uphill struggle. The problem however is not with the classification, it with the interest level. Of course people are fickle and if Celina were to suddenly have a great season, I doubt that he would have a problem getting a commitment from more kids to play and to some degree his coaching job would be made easier. c) I maintain that coaching is the biggest differentiator at the High School Level. It has certainly been our experience and I'm sure Ezell, Trousdale etc would all agree with me. Even when I look back to our Championship year we finally beat Trousdale by a substantial score, you could see that even in a lean year, Satterfield had those kids well disciplined and playing 110%. As someone has already pointed out on another thread, a good coach can be identified by what he gets out of the lean years rather than the years he is loaded with talent. CPA, Ezell will both have lean years and good years, in fact I believe you may start to see FRA coming into play. Likewise Collinwood is a well coached team and I believe we will see them around as a key 6-1A team for several years to come even when Jonathon Ward and Jacob Victory Graduate. d) I still maintain there is no difference between a group of kids within a 5-10 mile radius of a private school vs a county radius of a Public School. Statistically why would 250 kids be so different? Just because you have players from 2 counties does not mean you have an advantage (Provided you do not recruit). e) It appears to be the weak programs that have the issue. If there are some Collinwood, South Pitt, Cloudland fans etc please provide your views. From my perspective Collinwood beat a good CPA side last year then were beat by Ezell. I have not heard too many cries of fould play from them, rather I beleive I see an attitude of we need to raise the bar a little higher to go all the way. I really hope they fulfill those dreams one day and at the same time feel they have truly earned it by not being in a weaker 1A league. f) You make the false assumption that Rural Public Schools feel bad when they get beat by a Private in the playoffs. Last year CPA beat Wayne County in Round 1, the following week there were many fans and players from Wayne County sitting with us at the Collinwood game cheering for us. They were there because they have a rivalry with Collinwood, obviously they were not that crushed by the defeat the previous week. g) A Middle School is an important feeder to the High School System and yes they may have different campuses. If a school/coach wants to improve their squad they will work with the Middle Schools. Private Schools also have churn, the pay is not great and rememeber we are asking for a teacher to survive on a small income in a more expensive environment than in a rural community. The communication between High and Middle Schools is important, and it does require some effort and persistence when things change....success always does. h) The high standard set to win a 1A Championship was set by Trousdale County and South Pittsburg, we all got pounded by them year after year and worked towards hoping to reach their level. i) I have no interest in Div II, I don't like their shorter playoff structure and don't want to be driving to Memphis, Chatanooga or Knoxville every other week as part of the regular season. j) I am not convinced on the facilities argument. In 1999 we had a great team, we played at Bellevue Middle School for the first part of the season and as I have said before our weight room was nothing to write home about. All of the work for that season was done in the summer before we had the nice facilities. k) I am going to get mocked for this, but lets keep it in perspective here, it is only High School Football. Do we have the same passion for the academics and how our kids turn out? Most of our kids will never play NFL ball so I hope we instill something more to place their values on than how they perform on a Football Field. If we in any form set up the idea that there is one winner and everybody else is a loser, we have totally missed the vision of Varsity Athletics. Collinwood, Cloudland, Cascade, Wayne County etc should all feel very proud, they were part of a team effort and added something valuable to Tennessee High School Football. I will finish with a quote that I saw on a commercial over the last year dealing with athletic competition. "Though you are my adversary, you are not my enemy. If I should lose, I will applaud you, if I should win, I will honor you because without you, my victory has no meaning"

Wow a lot to respond to here and your effort certainly justifies a response. Firtly with regard to your pre-amble. I agree that Lighthouse would be hard to coach as it is a tiny school, however I do think someone of Dave Pack's or Coach Smiths caliber would cerainly improve their win statistics as he would in all likelihood get more kids willing to play and would teach them to play better. Let me ask a question, if Satterfield was coaching a team like Jo-Byrns, don't you expect that with time they too would become a factor in 1A. I certainly expect they would and I don't mean any disrespect to the current coach, but Satterfield would get better results because he is among the best. Now to your points 1) CPA does draw from Williamson and Davidson counties. Most kids are within a 5-10 mile radius of the school at most as the traffic is just too bad to make anything further practical.Our student population is made up of kids who have been there from Kindergarten and for the most part are church members. Why did that give us an advantage in 2000 when all the key players had been there since Kindergarten when we did not even have a football program? I don't see why a population of 250 High School Kids coming from a church would be so much more athletically capable than a 250 population High Scool in Rural Tennessee. Occasionally we have a kid come to the school who has moved into town and can find a spot in a grade with openings, sometimes that child may also be athletic. Guess what, it goes the other way also, we have lost several kids who would have made a huge difference in football (Kevyn Murray to Franklin High is a classic example, others to MBA and BA) 2) Middle School Development and coaching may have an impact. Dave Pack does not coach the Middle School but he does talk a lot to the coach. Why can't the High School Coaches in rural Tennessee take the same time? Again thinking of Trousdale, I think Satterfiled may coach MS as well but am not sure. 3) You assume that all the kids on the team are wealthy and do not have to work in the summer. There are one or two extremely rich people at CPA, but there are also a lot of parents who make substantial sacrifices to let their kids attend. The tuition at CPA is deliberatley kept as low as humanly possibe to try and keep it affordable. One or two kids may have gone to individual training camps, but if they think they may want to play ball why wouldn't they? If you had a child who had an aptitude for academics and had a shot at an academic scholarship would you not sacrifice a little as a parent and try and make it happen by letting him take a few summer classes. What is the difference? 4) Facilities. Our buses are Purple and White on the outside but they aren't that different from a Yellow Bus inside. 1999 was when we built our facilty, our weight room was a joke before that, yet we were already starting to have success. I simply don't buy the fan support argument, Collinwood, Cloudland don't seem to struggle, they are no different from a Celina or Whitwell. I agree that Fan support is a huge factor in how a team plays, however the Privates have no intrinsic advantage. Parents will encourage their kids to play ball and fans will come if they all feel there is a coach that can make a difference. 5) All of our kids have to deal with huge distractions whether they be Public or Private. We send our kids to a Private School to improve our odds as parents so we don't have to put them in the Metro School System. I'm sure there are problems also in rural Tennessee, but guess what, even Christian Schools have to deal with these issues as well. I would be far happier sending my child to a Cloudland or Collinwood than to a Metro School. I also don;t see our Football Players being given special exceptions for travel, meals etc. This only happens if they have to travel 2 or more hours for an away game when they may be let out a little earlier. I also know this happens in Public Schools.

The distances are about the same but you hit less traffic lights and less Bellevue traffic if you exit at Old Hickory.

The mapquest maps are not always the best so here are the directions if you are coming from Jackson. Take I40 East till you get to Old Hickory Boulevard Exit (199 I believe) Turn Right onto Old Hickory. Stay on the road and it will dead end after 3-4 miles. It will go thru Bellevue first. Turn left when you can go no further Take the next right at the light (which actually is Old Hickory Blvd) Go thru the first light (Vaughn Road) and CPA will be at the next light on the right. There are two entrances but the traffic light entrance will be the best for the game. Go to the back of property as the school is behind the church.

We aren't that good at Public relations at CPA, we have never had the Fire and Police give the team an escort like they do in Collinwood. Who needs newspaper articles to make the kids feel good if you have the whole town behind you?

StanTrott, There are two sides to the coin on point 2. In 1999 we felt that we had an exceptional team at CPA, only to yet once again get eliminated by a dominant and extremely well coached Trousdale County. All of us in the ABC's of Nashville knew the road to the Bowl was thru Trousdale and more often than not came out on the wrong side on the win/loss column. Like our friends from Ezell, DCA, FRA etc we take the lumps and try and improve next time. Obviously it is not always possible with the squad you are dealt, however a good coach can always motivate a group of kids to play to their best ability. Herein lies the major differentiator.....quality of coaching. CPA, Ezell, USJ, FRA, DCA, Bruceton, Collinwood, South Pitt, Cloudland and Trousdale have great coaches who consistently get that extra effort from their kids and help them play smart to overcome (or at least neutralize) size or speed on their opponents. Do you honestly think that CPA would have had 6 Div I signees in 2000 if it wasn't for Dave Pack working with them over several years? Likewise Antoine Owens, JP Shelley, Eric Davis for Ezell, Jonathon Ward and Jacob Victory for Collinwood etc etc. I guarantee you they would have been nothing more than good players had they been in many other 1A programs. I also don't buy the concept that we have a better athletic pool to draw from. Most kids in these schools have been there from Kindergarten. Despite what people may think, we don't actually run a genetic test before parents can become church members and enroll their kids. I am going to use Ezell as a great example of coaching here. In 2000 CPA beat them by 50+ points to zero. The Ezell team did not change too much the following year and look what they accomplished. Did the kids suddenly become more athletic...to some degree yes, did they work hard over the summer to improve...absolutely, what motivated them.....A GREAT COACH who taught them how to play to their ability and beyond it.

USJ really had some great players last year with DeLoach, Fay, Payne and Andy Metcalf to name but a few. They are going to be tough shoes to fill, however I'm sure Coach Marley will still build a competitive team. I will go with 27-14 for CPA.

I cannot even start to imagine what kept meanjean away from the game last week. The only thing I can think of is his great fame as a Tuba Player. He was probably with his agent organizing his World Tour (It will have to be in Mid December of couse as he will be watching the Jackets in the Boro this year) MeanJean teach a class? Boy, that is scary.

Thank you meanjean, I will sleep so much better now. Only a time tested football genius like yourself should be sorting thru all the data to give us a feel for the best teams in the state.

Can we assume that you yourself are handling Middle Tennessee scouting? I only want the best handling the polls for the schools I am interested in. [Edited by OnlineLC on 8-26-02 11:41A]

CPA is nowhere near MBA's level nor is it likely to be as the directions and intents of the 2 schools are so different. MBA and BA are well renowned for their academics and I fully agree that they should be offering financial aid to students who would otherwise not be able to attend. CPA is geared more towards a Christian based education with academics that will make the students fit in well with the good universities. Occasionally we get someone going to an ivy league school but most parents transfer their children to BA or MBA if they show an apptitude for academics. CPA was a long time in deciding if it even wanted a football program back in the early 90's as some folks feared it would change the school. As we all know, CPA did take up football and suffered many thrashings in the early years and naturally felt we should play at the same level as FRA, DCA etc. Like CPA, I'm sure MBA likes to compete in athletics with it's peers (eg BA, Father Ryan etc) and with BA being so dominant a few years back, MBA also selected to play at the same level. 1A is a very difficult division to manage, the difference in school sizes alone has a far bigger impact than 2A or 3A as sometimes you barely have enough kids to field a squad. After this season we have 2 more under the current structure, if Privates win two of the next state championships, the TSSAA will have no option but to tackle this issue. What I would not want however is for Collinwood or South Pitt or Cloudland to suddenly feel that they are in a weak classification. They have built up good programs and we need to ensure that they feel a real sense of pride if one of them wins state after all the privates have gone.

CPA is nowhere near MBA's level nor is it likely to be as the directions and intents of the 2 schools are so different. MBA and BA are well renowned for their academics and I fully agree that they should be offering financial aid to students who would otherwise not be able to attend. CPA is geared more towards a Christian based education with academics that will make the students fit in well with the good universities. Occasionally we get someone going to an ivy league school but most parents transfer their children to BA or MBA if they show an apptitude for academics. CPA was a long time in deciding if it even wanted a football program back in the early 90's as some folks feared it would change the school. As we all know, CPA did take up football and suffered many thrashings in the early years and naturally felt we should play at the same level as FRA, DCA etc. Like CPA, I'm sure MBA likes to compete in athletics with it's peers (eg BA, Father Ryan etc) and with BA being so dominant a few years back, MBA also selected to play at the same level. 1A is a very difficult division to manage, the difference in school sizes alone has a far bigger impact than 2A or 3A as sometimes you barely have enough kids to field a squad. After this season we have 2 more under the current structure, if Privates win two of the next state championships, the TSSAA will have no option but to tackle this issue. What I would not want however is for Collinwood or South Pitt or Cloudland to suddenly feel that they are in a weak classification. They have built up good programs and we need to ensure that they feel a real sense of pride if one of them wins state after all the privates have gone.

I agree that the complaining would shift over to 2A, it would also be big if we moved to 3A.

Stan Trott, Good question and I have to admit that I would not be opposed to moving into 2A or 3A, however for CPA to consider that I'm sure they would want FRA, DCA, USJ and Ezell to make the same choice. It would be tough some years but overall all of these teams could be competitive in these classifications. I'm not part of the CPA Football decision criteria so my opinion does not count. I do need to stress that we do not enjoy the games when we play a small rural Tennessee school who can barely field a squad. However we do enjoy the Collinwoods etc. One perspective as a CPA fan, it was Trousdale County giving us an annual trip to the woodshed that made us improve. As for the Lighthouse's, CA's etc they all struggle in 1A so maybe they should move to Div II, A. [Edited by OnlineLC on 8-26-02 10:57A]

Stan Trott, Stan Trott, My response has moved over to the Public/Private Forum. [Edited by OnlineLC on 8-26-02 10:45A] [Edited by OnlineLC on 8-26-02 10:48A]

I have been to all of their scrimmages and I would say CPA finally got it together the other night when they were easily handling Glenclif and were up 13-0 before lightning stopped play. Always hard to compare teams but I would say they are stronger than last year (Certainly different now that Eric Holt adds a new dimension). Travis Sikes is QB with Adam Etue as backup and both look solid. As always the lines look strong especially Scott Greenwood. As Chakra points out, the week 2 game vs Ezell will be a great game. I would hesitate to say that the winner of that goes all the way but it will determine home field advantage for the playoffs when anything can happen.

I understand the confusion. With most of the ABC's moving to the west and Trousdale moving to 3A, it really changed the 1A Classification completely.