3 classifications

[chattanooga]

did A and AA split up? it seems like 90% of the teams that go to state are AA, quite lopsided from where i sit.

[BigG]

did A and AA split up? it seems like 90% of the teams that go to state are AA, quite lopsided from where i sit.

 

Where did you hear that?

[chattanooga]

i heard it on the radio, but from reading the minutes of the meeting it did not happen. They are meeting in August to discuss other sports.

[chattanooga]

what are your thoughts Big G? AA dominates the playoffs. This year it looks like all but 2 of the teams in this years playoffs were AA. The two A schools were both shutout in the first round.

[BigG]

what are your thoughts Big G? AA dominates the playoffs. This year it looks like all but 2 of the teams in this years playoffs were AA. The two A schools were both shutout in the first round.

 

Tricky question, acutally... It also has the quandry of AA multiplied and AA non multiplied.

 

I think there will ALWAYS be some sort of disparity, whether it is public vs. private, rural vs. urban, A vs. AA and so on.

 

I'll make a prediction. The decision that football made for the playoffs will most likely affect the other sports. I would say that they will keep A/AA together for the season, but in the future, A and AA will split for the tournament. I don't think there are enough A or AA teams seperately to fill the regular season schedule by themselves.

 

I would also say, that eventually, they are going to keep publics and privates together for the regular season, but somehow split them at the tournament as well. I don't know how they legally could do that (although I don't have any idea how the multiplier is legal anyway) but I think it will happen. BUT, I REALLY don't want to go down that path for debate, just thoughts that I have in my noggin...

 

MVM will back me up on this one, but I think the true disparity runs along the lines of how many of the players on a team are involved in club soccer. I think if you did some research, you would find that teams that succeed, regardless of size, have a higher number of kids involved in club programs. Now, most of those clubs are located in larger cities, so the more rural areas are at a disandvantage, although they COULD form their own club, but it is a lot harder to do so, and to find players from that area who would fill the roster.

 

But back on topic, look at Division 2... they split soccer into 2 divisions, A and AA. Now, I am not against that, but look how the state tournament was run. There were only 4 teams that made it to state (4 from A and 4 from AA) and they had to play their semi-finals on Thursday and the finals 24 hours later on the Friday! This is how I think the split A and AA Division 1 program would work, and I would hate it. I LOVE the fact that 8 teams make it to state, and play a 4 day format with 2 games on the early days. It allows you to watch some great soccer in one location.

 

As far as a "watered down" championship, I personally don't think that is the case. The trend is going towards MORE champions rather than less, so we may as well get used to it. Think back about 15 years, and there was only 1 division for soccer (CAK was with Farragut, Bearden etc.) before they split. I think it is just a matter of time before they do split A/AA. I am for it IF and only IF there are enough teams to justify the split. Don't do it before that.

[chattanooga]

club soccer costs money. kids that go to private schools more likely to have money for club soccer and all that goes with it. tssaa can't regulate the number of select players. the multiplication rule should be increased for soccer. the number of club players on private schools is 3 or 4 times greater than public schools in soccer. in looking at the last 4 or 5 years the A teams do not fair very well and are in the minority by a great margin come playoff time. there is no requirement for district games now, which i would like to see changed which the new rules might fix as well. I hope the new classfications find there way into soccer in 2009.

[Nashville Panther]

Absolutely not. There are not enough teams in A that play soccer to justify this change. Odds are that there never will be.

 

The TSSAA would be wasting major cash organizing a state champion for A.

 

Lets look at Middle Tenn. I am going to include the entire Grand Divsion area.

 

Here are the A teams with soccer

 

Friendship Christian

Merrol Hyde (they will be AA in about 2 years)

Mt. Juliet Christian

Clarksville Academy

East Robertson

WH- Heritage (they will be AA in about 2 years)

Forrest

Cascade

Middle TN Christian

Columbia Academy

Zion Christian

 

(I might have missed 1 team in Southern Middle TN)

 

Many A schools cannot field more than 1 or 2 Spring Sports.

 

If you are Friendship (Wilson County) do you want a district schedule with - Clarksville, Columbia. They will be travelling all over Middle TN for their district the costs of transportation are too high as well.

 

I would love the day when 20 or 30 more very small schools add soccer to justify A soccer but it is not going to happen any time soon.

[BigG]

club soccer costs money. kids that go to private schools more likely to have money for club soccer and all that goes with it. tssaa can't regulate the number of select players. the multiplication rule should be increased for soccer. the number of club players on private schools is 3 or 4 times greater than public schools in soccer. in looking at the last 4 or 5 years the A teams do not fair very well and are in the minority by a great margin come playoff time. there is no requirement for district games now, which i would like to see changed which the new rules might fix as well. I hope the new classfications find there way into soccer in 2009.

 

Wait, we already have the highest multiplier in the NATION and you want it increased? You make it sound like only private school kids play club soccer. The majority of players at West, Bearden, Farragut etc. are club players, sometimes 15-20 deep on the roster. All of those kids attend public schools. All have committed to playing club ball, and the sacrifices it takes to do so. This means when other kids are taking the fall off from soccer, or playing other sports, they are playing soccer. When the other kids are doing different things in the summer, these kids are out practicing soccer, in hopes that it will pay off in the long run with a college scholarship. (And yes, my guys also hold jobs as well as playing club... you don't have to chose one or the other)

 

I am telling you, it isn't a public private thing. If it is "anything", it is more a rural urban "thing", because the bigger clubs tend to be around the cities. BUT, nothing prevents the more rural schools from putting a team together. You can play in local tournaments and don't have to spend the big bucks to travel. It's about a committment to building a program, and not just playing 2 months of soccer and expecting to excel.

 

My question is simple, Chatt. How much time outside of the TSSAA soccer "season" are the small A size teams putting towards soccer? This is why you have seen such an increase of talent in teams like Alcoa, Seymour (see EastTNref, I didn't forget them) and Carter... the coaches, kids and parents have all decided to take it up a notch and commit to soccer outside of the 2-3 months of the season. I think that is the solution. NOT to move anyone up or out. It doesn't take money to get 5-10 of your friends out on a city field and kick around a few times a week, or to get out and juggle for a half an hour a day. I just don't think those things are happening.

 

I have said before, that the schools that are winning, have players who 10 years ago, decided to commit to soccer, and have paid their "dues" on Saturday mornings, weekends, evenings during the year for those 10 years, and now it is paying off in the highschool arena.

 

I apologize if I came across abrupt or harsh. That was not my intent. I hope it can be taken in the light that I intended it to be seen in.

[Nashville Panther]

Domination in soccer in Tennessee is centered in 5 parts of the state. These areas are all near the major cities (but not in the inner city). You will find that year after year the teams winning state have players that come out of one of the five areas.

 

1- The Western Suburban area of Knoxville (Farragut area)

2- The Eastern Suburbs of Memphis (Germantown area)

3- Williamson County/ SW Nashville (Brentwood)

4- Southern Sumner County (Hendersonville)

5- Wherever the nice part of Chattanooga is.

 

 

Sure every now and then a team from a smaller city does well (Kingsport, Murfreesboro, Cookeville, Tullahoma). But overall soccer in Tennessee is dominated by schools with affluent students. (ITs much more dominant in girls in the wealthy areas). The most affluent parts of Tennessee are listed above. It is from these areas that the best private schools and public school teams come from. I would bet that if you got out a map of Tennessee and put a push-pin on the map where the starting 11 from each team in the state finals for the last 10 years lived you would find that the 5 areas listed above had probably 80% of the players living there.

 

Look at Nashville. The best teams (MBA, RYAN, FRA, Brentwood, Centennial, Ravenwood, CPA) are located in the wealthy parts of Nashville or Williamson.

Also- Hendersonville, White House, Pope Paul, Station Camp, Goodpasture - which made state are all near southern Sumner Co.

 

THIS IS NOT A TENNEESSEE ISSUE ITS A SOCCER ISSUE. Soccer in America today is dominated by the affluent. It started being spread across the nation that way in the 70s and 80s and it came to Tennesse in similar fashion.

 

In Nashville the first schools to have soccer were private schools (MBA, USN, RYAN) the magnet schools (HF and MLK) and schools which in the 80s had many affluent kids like Hillwood, McGavock, Overton and Hillsboro.

 

Pearl-Cohn in the 1980s had about 6 time the number of students as MLK yet they had no soccer. Why? the same reason they don't today they have virtually no affluent students.

 

As to the rural areas. I think that despite the lack of club programs a dedicated coach who was backed by the community could build a good team. HOWEVER, often there is very little community support. A good friend of mine started a team in a rural Middle Tennessee County. The support he received from the school was minimal at best.

 

I say the current system is best. A team does not have to be a state champion to be considered a success. Further dilution of a State Championship is not needed.

[BigG]

Readin the articles in the News Sentinel, they have already made more divisions for football, split volleyball into 3 divisions (they used to be one of the last A/AA combined sports) and went from 3 champions to 6 in basketball.

 

If I were a betting man, I would imagine some type of change is coming for soccer. If I had to predict, they will probably keep the A/AA teams together for the regular season (like they are doing in football divisions) but when it comes to the state tournament, they would split A and AA and take only 4 teams from each division. I have mixed feelings towards this. Even though they say "The same number of teams would be coming to state" (like the did in the basketball article) it truly effects the teams there... while more A teams would get to go (which is a good thing) some very deserving AA teams would not.

 

Either way, things are going to change greatly in 2009. Teams moving up and around in districts, division splits, state changes... The only decision that I have been happy with so far is that they are going to keep the boys soccer state tournament at Richard Seigle for another year.

[easttnref]

Wait, we already have the highest multiplier in the NATION and you want it increased? You make it sound like only private school kids play club soccer. The majority of players at West, Bearden, Farragut etc. are club players, sometimes 15-20 deep on the roster. All of those kids attend public schools. All have committed to playing club ball, and the sacrifices it takes to do so. This means when other kids are taking the fall off from soccer, or playing other sports, they are playing soccer. When the other kids are doing different things in the summer, these kids are out practicing soccer, in hopes that it will pay off in the long run with a college scholarship. (And yes, my guys also hold jobs as well as playing club... you don't have to chose one or the other)

 

I am telling you, it isn't a public private thing. If it is "anything", it is more a rural urban "thing", because the bigger clubs tend to be around the cities. BUT, nothing prevents the more rural schools from putting a team together. You can play in local tournaments and don't have to spend the big bucks to travel. It's about a committment to building a program, and not just playing 2 months of soccer and expecting to excel.

 

My question is simple, Chatt. How much time outside of the TSSAA soccer "season" are the small A size teams putting towards soccer? This is why you have seen such an increase of talent in teams like Alcoa, Seymour (see EastTNref, I didn't forget them) and Carter... the coaches, kids and parents have all decided to take it up a notch and commit to soccer outside of the 2-3 months of the season. I think that is the solution. NOT to move anyone up or out. It doesn't take money to get 5-10 of your friends out on a city field and kick around a few times a week, or to get out and juggle for a half an hour a day. I just don't think those things are happening.

 

I have said before, that the schools that are winning, have players who 10 years ago, decided to commit to soccer, and have paid their "dues" on Saturday mornings, weekends, evenings during the year for those 10 years, and now it is paying off in the highschool arena.

 

I apologize if I came across abrupt or harsh. That was not my intent. I hope it can be taken in the light that I intended it to be seen in.

 

 

 

 

My question is this seymour is moving up a classification and only have about 6 to 8 kids who play club soccer, but yet in AAA they will have a better chance getting out of there region than they ever did in AAA playing the likes of Catholic and CAK

Now if Seymour can do this tell me why the two teams mentioned above should not...

 

WELL they will say look at our school size who cares at your schools how many of those at your school play sports, not to mention play sports year around have the money to get on these big time travel teams

 

My question is this in Sports at the college level they have teams that play up in one sport and stay down in other it is obvious that CAK's soccer team is at a higher level of play than there football so why not bump up soccer to get them at an appropriate level and leave football where they are same thing with maryville football and gibbs softball these programs should be above where they are these programs should be pushed up a level

 

Just a question becuase the seymour area has added 250 kids since the last change we have to move up and how many of these 250 play sports lets see 10-15 kids maybe and let me tell you the level of athletics has not went up since we added the extra 250

[BigG]

but yet in AAA they will have a better chance getting out of there region than they ever did in AAA playing the likes of Catholic and CAK

 

 

Wait, your saying that Seymour will have a better chance getting through regions in AAA? So, they can't get through Catholic or CAK, but can get through Bearden, Farragut, West, Oak Ridge?

 

And also, I have said before I am all for a merit based system, that would do just that from year to year. It won't happen though. Too much work for the TSSAA.