socref1

We could acknowledge the positive aspects of his contributions and how the school, players, and community at large benefited during his 12-year tenure; the 7 state appearances in 8 years, 1 final, 3 final fours, the 11 district titles, and two back to back region titles, the fact that the Katie Hunter tournament, he took no personal money (unlike other coaches) while attracting the best teams from the regions to come and play (and we hope they will still come) and bring money into the town. Here is somone who put Oak Ridge soccer on the map. When people here only talk about Bearden and Farragut being the top, they forget in order to get to state the past 8 years, you have to get through Oak Ridge. It wasn't as easy for someone to work with a small, close nit town, with less students and a smaller feeder program. Maybe in the grand scheme of things, it was a positive thing for East TN. http://www.ladywildcatsoccer.org/histor ... tones.html Here are some more stats, not of him, but of his players: 55 times, his players made TACA All State 4 (3), 10 (2) + 4 this year 18 times his players made TSWA All State 4 NSCAA All South, 4 Scholar All South 3 NSCAA Scholar All Americans 96 First team All Regions + 7 this year 31 played in college (3 are not listed on the web page) I for one, am grateful to the man for all he did. Two of my daughters played for him. Thank you Coach Sheppard.

But that is my WHOLE point! These younger ladies see the older ladies acting this way, and they think it is acceptable! This is the EXACT reason why an example must be made. You're going to get us another 700 word essay on the LOTG. Try this rule Mr. Socref1: An important tool for the referee is Law 18, Common Sense. That's Dr. Socref1.

Of course it will not be tolerated and she probably wont come back (for the spring season). It pains me to see the beautiful game tarnished this way. All have taken my reply out of context. The capital punishment analogy was misplaced, but crime does continue regardless because of human nature. Our own moral compass and knowledge of consequences keeps us right and for the most part, society as a whole. We are a society of law and order. The game is also one of law and order. These heinous actions do bring down the game. I believe we all want the same thing, to have a beautiful game without these types of infractions. Players must be sent off for these actions but a send off alone will not deter this action in the future unfortunately. That is the sad reality as we are a forgetful species. If one really wants to deter this behavior, then criminal penalties must be considered. This is outside the LOTG. Pro hockey has cleaned up most of the fighting with criminal action, but it still occurs. I think what shocks people is that justice was not served by a red card, and now many are calling for some justice outside the LOTG, understandably. If the red card were given, this discussion is moot. The red card was given in the Powell West game and that is sufficient for the match. What penalties come after the match are outside the LOTG. The LOTG do not ensure that such matters as violent conduct and hair pulling will never occur in the future unfortunately. Players will do bad things because they are human and referees are only human and will miss things. So it will slip through the cracks. But when it does slip, as it did here, what is the course of action that all will agree? What is the proper justice? This is not for us to say or debate on this forum. We lack full information, yet were obviously shocked by what we saw. The LOTG are written so that little interference is made, and when the referee has to step in, he or she will under the full extent of Law 5. Its up to the coaches to instill fair play. Its up to the players to abide by sportsmanship. Do they? For the most part, yes. However the LOTG only provides that IF and when such unsporting actions occur, they are to be delt with swiftly and on the field by the referee. Now the referee could have prevented this situation by the bar he set. This will obviously be looked at. The crew won't be fired in all honesty. If anything, it is a teaching point, one for improvement. Now there is sanctions such as 2 game bans, season, and lifetime bans (Zdane) but what good are these for players ending their careers? Violent conduct will continue unfortunately as long as people play the game. What will stop this behavior across the board in the future? Because it is sure to happen again and again, unless some additional saction or point of emphasis is brought up specifically at the scholastic level (e.g. permanent ban, criminal charges). However now the bar has been set for all to see. For now, it is up to the ref to deal with it with Law 5 or NFHS for high school to specify a new sanction (the HS law book is very thick). Now if the referee does not deal with it, as in the BYU UM game, then it is up to the next level after the fact. This is not agreeable to some who want blood for blood. The school has dealt with it to the conferences satisfaction. The referee assigning body will surely have their say. This is the process. It will only work itself out if something positive comes from it. Now what about examining the context of the game that lead to this behavior? I will not respond any further.

The root cause was not the poor officiating or lack thereof. Penalties have been handed out (and some we do not know of yet I can assure you the match assignors will also weigh in). College officiating is very selective, at least in the major conferences. You need to let it go. There will always be a match where in your opinion, the officiating wasn't perfect, the coaching not perfect, the player execution not perfect. We live in an imperfect world. Soccer is a human endeavor, humans make mistakes. This will continue until the end of time. No one needs to be "made an example" of, since to do so would not deter the next person, or the next. That is like saying capital punishment will deter capital crimes, which you know it doesnt. Like I said earlier, move on, nothing to see here. Your opinion is noted, but at the end of the day, it just doesn't matter.

We dont disagree on the dispicable acts. They were heinous and delt with, so why wont you let it go? Or are you on a one-person crusade to clean up all sports?. I am pointing out the hypocrisy perpetuated by the thought process you very espouse, since you are powerless as well. Referees have real power through the laws of the game. Assignors have real power by not assigning referees. Your only power is to choose not to pay your money to watch. I suppose if everyone boycotted the sport, then surely someone would take notice. Its people like you who sit back and point fingers, and lay blame when you need to look at your own misgivings. However I put it to you for high school this season - you want accountability, where is the accountability in that HS match I brought up where the player who pulled the hair got the red card. Is that enough? That was their last game, and her last HS game. And she is a very good player. Enough all ready.

no one accepted this behavior. I was just pointing out the absurdity of your rants for the scorched earth policy. The main point is that when winning at all costs becomes the focus of all endeavors, then people will to whatever to win at all costs. Sports is not the exception. Works in business, wars, government, grade school. You want accountability, look within and question society as a whole. Sometimes fans perpetuate the lynch mob mentality. You need not go to South America , or Boston MA to see the result of parents and fans killing each other in the name of youth sports. You have seen me call games at the highest level. I dont have a problem with the fans. I tune them out. Players love the games I call because I am invisible and give them the chance to show their skills, pushing to the ragged edge. I try to see everything but that is not possible. This is not a zero defects endeavor. I dont see any value added by calling for the head of all here either. The league made their call. Move on, nothing to see here...

<> I believe the Mountain West Conference agrees with the sanctions and no further action is needed. Its funny but this is the last game of this season. I am sure they will have Miss Lambert miss a few games next year, but don't count on any of the draconian suggestions mentioned. Look, no one is condoning what was viewed and not taken care of. However like I said, hairpulling and rough play is unsporting. Go play rugby.

All of you are correct, a nasty hair pull is pretty bad BUT not limited to college. In fact, it happened in our own backyard this season the girls high school season, and NO ONE discussed it on this board. The referee gave the red card and the restart West scored the game winning goal. Here is the play, around 91:55 of the tape, real late in the Powell West Region Semi http://knoxivi.com/wesths.html You have to find the West Powell game from the menu.

Here is a link from the Farragut Free Press that has the Bearden perspective. http://www.farragutpress.com/articles/2 ... 11508.html

Here is the link to the Knoxville News Sentinel on the game. http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/oct/2 ... n-victory/

Ok I'll weigh in on slide tackles. The problem is one of risk management, and prevention juxtaposed with the spirit of the game and the skill of the players. Keep in mind the following: 1. Legal 2. If done properly is exciting to watch 3. If done improperly can result in injury; It is a foul, "possibly" resulting in a caution or send off. (not one of the mandatory 7+7) 4. HS rules are different than USSF. Both allow slide tackles. 5. Guidance from TSSAA in beginning of season meeting with coaches and referees on "points of emphasis" reinforce rules. 6. Some coaches don't teach, others are exemplary teachers. Some believe players should be taught by club coaches and players should already be trained when they get in the program. Some teams have no club players. Some coaches don't allow players that do not play club in their programs (or they don't play alot). 7. As one colleague has said, careless reckless or excessive force is the key. Did the player exercise "due care"? What elements are required? Careless is a foul, reckless usually equally yellow and excessive force is usually red. 8. Some HS games are no more competitive than rec league. Some high school games are very physical. Physical games are not illegal games. Soccer is a physical sport. There is a fine line between physical and out of control. Referees are there to balance flow, versus control, and keep it safe, fair, and fun. 9. Some teams bless their hearts, are very unskilled and play for their school for fun. These are the games most likely to need attention. Some HS teams can give premier club teams a run for their money (as a few HS teams are blessed with exclusively high caliber players). These games need attention too. I can recall one game, a U19G at a high level club tournament in Georgia. Late in the game where the player executed a slide tackle from behind, got the girls calf, and was sent off. Five minutes later, her friend did the same thing. Same result. Another send off. All the girls said in response "this is our last game of our life, who cares?" 5 min left. Enough said, game over. The only way to stop dangerous and potential injurious play is to penalize severely. Do players listen? Some do, some don't care. The other point is that if this is an issue in HS sports, it should be brought to the attention of TSSAA immediately. Coaches, players, referees must abide by the requirements posed by the state. If this is an issue at the club level, it is usually filtered down from Chicago, where USSF directives come from. There is a chain of command. TSSAA has recently begun an effort to upgrade referee quality with full day preseason clinics. HS referees are required to attend a certain number of educational meetings a year, usually held monthly locally. There are supervisors, assessors, and assignors. The best critics are peers, not fans, coaches or players. Referees earn respect of their peers by showing courage. Admittedly there is a spectrum of talent and skill in any endeavor, be it coaching, playing, or refereeing. FIFA International Board Decision 8 on Law 5, which is no longer formally a part of the rules, but essential in the "spirit of the game" and the training of referees. “The Laws of the Game are intended to provide that games should be played with as little interference as possible, and ... it is the duty of the referee to penalize only deliberate breaches of the Law. Constant whistling for trifling and doubtful breaches produces bad feeling and loss of temper on the part of the players and spoils the pleasure of spectators.” Following this guidance ensures play like slide tackles get their due when done properly.

Thats pretty bad. When it turns out that TSSAA doesn't have enough people to keep the game safe and let the players play at the level they need, then who really is to blame, and who really loses out.

Canes, don't start with preseason griping since those that are out there are usually doing it gratis. I have an inquiry: Last night an AD told me their preseason football "scrimmage" had a gate (charged some $). I guess they had officials there and it looked like a real game but no announcers or timekeeper. Does TSSAA condone charging a preseason gate? Maybe they look the other way for football because its a big money maker. I have never seen a gate for preseason soccer. Here is the TSSAA handbook about preseason: Preseason Scrimmages – A school cannot practice with or scrimmage another school until both schools have practiced a minimum of three days. A school may have a maximum of 4 preseason scrimmages or 2 preseason scrimmage dates or 1 preseason scrimmage date and 2 preseason scrimmages. No tournament format of any type may be used. Preseason scrimmages should look more like practice than games. The last sentence.. "scrimmages should look more like practice than games" However as reported on this forum, people are posting preseason scores, etc as if they are games and not practices. My take, who cares? Its preseason. Also are officials required at these "scrimmages" where it looks like a "game"? If not it would appear coaches can get whomever they want, even themselves or their assistants to help with "scrimmage management. I think they can't be played without officials if two teams show up in uniform, else it would be like a practice. The players don't know the difference during the game. They are out there giving their all regardless. I am wondering out there if anyone is charging a preseason gate and who are NOT using TSSAA officials for these "games" Thanks

Its demographics and city economics .plus getting the rec department to embrace soccer after the "mud tourney in Oct 03 has left some bad tastes. More young families are moving into west knoxville. The soccer numbers are down in AYSO and SCOR for those age groups as well. The basketball numbers are down, the cross country and swimming are also down. So its an off year across the board. There will be a pickup after this year. There is a U12G Krossfire team that is absolutely blessed with talent. There could be 5-6 freshmen when the current group are seniors. Try and take the high road, for the good of the kids and the game. Its easy to tear people down if it makes you feel better about yourself. But that is not very sporting and we are talking about children. This year the team will be OK, but next year they will need a keeper.

Hmm. That wasn't the motivation at all. The point was that it was the underclass that did this and yes it was a team effort. If you check closely, it was someone else that posted the video in the first place. That wasnt the point of the post. The point was to show it was a team effort, and that those girls will be back. The fact that the player was there to read the game and be in the right place and make the most of the situation was outside the original intent.

True. They should spread it around a little more this year. Still, in the end, it's the heart , desire, and persistence that matters.

Interesting, the only game Powell was totally out of it was the game Trenna Howell didn't even play. All seven goals scored were by 3 Freshmen and 2 Somphores. All who are returning this season. I think Oak Ridge will do just fine this year.

When I meant first round, I meant State at GPS. So I guess it was the quarterfinals. I hope you are right. Good to see other schools than the "same old fare"

Riverdale got drummed in the first round of the state tourney last fall. However thats good experience.

There was no handball. I had a pretty good view right by the goal line. Referee confers with his assistant and both independently agreed no infraction, which was the right call.

Thanks Some are no surprise. Others are ones to watch. Do you have the breakdown by grade for both R and R2? How many were seniors? How many are returning? How many are freshmen? Any surprises who slipped through the experts preseason or season radar?

That report is not factually accurate. Some players listed as All-Freshman are actually All-district and some that made All-Freshman did not even get mentioned.

If the girl hit the other girl in the face with her elbow, with intent to do harm, with reckless force, thats a straight red. No questions asked. If arms were flailing carelessly and mindlessly connect, it probably rises to the occasion of a yellow card. But its one of those "in the opinion of the referee" as to the degree of misconduct. It is a foul and the perp will be disciplined. Doesnt matter what number is on the back, or whether she wears the captains armband. The point of fact, in the Laws of the Game, that Serious Foul Play is a send off offense. Striking in the fashion described rises to that occasion. I also don't believe people who are not referees are qualified to tell you how to get better. There is no basis for them to make a helpful suggestion, other than to ..... I think we can improve the quality of our game with more game experience to draw on. You learn the laws not from a book, or a class room, but seeing them in practice under real game situations. Positive citicism is welcome however, synicism and flippancy are not required. We do desire to improve to give the players our very best. Too bad all at the field are not held accountable to that high standard. I cant remember how many times a drunken person meandered over to my line to tell me his daughter was not offside yada yada...

I'll reply to this: 1. I am a soccer referee, and my perspective is my opinion. I have been doing this at a very very high level, for over 10 years. I have over a thousand games. Some I would like to forget, but have learned from them. I will say I am not an expert nor do I speak for all my collegues. But the duty of the referee isn't to change the outcome of a game. Players do that with their actions, for better or worse. Referees make decisions based on those actions, and they must decide in a fraction of a second. 2. All players make mistakes. Good players mistakes usually dont cost games. Everyone errs. No exceptions. A reserve player that makes a mistake will not play alot. A starter that makes a mistake will have it looked over. 3. An evaulation system that works best has always been peer review. That being said, spectators are not the referees peers. So the evaluation system chosen by the fans; boos and cheers, is obviously biased. The check and balance comes from the similar check and balance for players - performance. If the referee doesnt perform they dont get the gig. Qualified assessors at high level matches are always present at the pro level, however assessors, who are or were active referees, are not always available for HS or competetive play. Some referee organizations provide feedback forms to the coaches. Coaches can select to "blacklist" an official. I have never been "blacklisted" to my knowledge. 4. My only question is "Why take the emphasis away from the game and players, and make a neutral party the center of attention? Someone on this forum said, "Get over it". Sounds like good advice. Honor the game, honor the players, but please refrain from bashing officials. Disagreement with them does not help. Players know this. Coaches know this. Referees know this. If you referee and are in the stands, please honor your code. Use disagreement as a teaching tool, or a point of emphasis to less knowledgable observers.