slingshot

Wussies?? Now we're name calling? Has this become personal hipyou? Assume this is a fear issue if you must, but Wussies?? Keep it coming. You're just one good post after another.

So much sarcasm, so little point. If endless sarcasm was your point, congratulations, however where's the beef? My point is that some folks are trying to fix a product that isn't broken. If your point was to offend the "older" coaches, maybe you've done that as well. "Better coaching" I think you called it. To the best of my recollection, names such as Henry, Connell, Morgan, Simpson, Miller etc. have been around for well over 20 years and have been doing a great job. Who exactly are these younger, "better" coaches to which you are referring? Maybe they can help these old guys out.

Sly, you've been around this thing from the beginning. It's as if someone just wrote a list of DII arguments and posted them on some mythical board in 1997. Since then, they have been used, re-used, re-worded and passed off as original. You're obviously a patient man and continue to fight the good fight, but trust me...you'll never get satisfaction. They only wait for your next words to use them as fuel for the endless rhetoric. This, of course will always be passed off as "for the good of the sport", for it is their battle-cry. And posts such as this, while true, will be bombarded with witty antagonism and characterized as "bad" for the sport. Funny, since the split, Tennessee has produced Phillip Simpson, Matt Keller, Darren McKnight, Rusty Blackmon, Waylon Lowe etc. Yep, that split is killing us.

Good grief. It's called an analogy. And it is absolutely accurate for the point being made. Of course there will always be exceptions to any logic. Here, you're using a Tennessee student who is the best in the United States? How often does this happen? (most years, who has the dominant tennis programs, DI or DII?....can we muster a little honesty here?) You're not unlike the smoking advocates who cite the eighty-five year old who has smoked two packs of cigarettes per day for seventy years yet is alive and well. Does this change the fact that cigarettes kill thousands each year? Seat belts save lives, yet every anti-belt wearer can cite the case where the car landed upside down in a creek and if the driver had been wearing a seatbelt, he surely would have drowned. Give me a break. The problem with the DI-DII subject is that we dance around the obvious and ignore the facts of the matter. Did the earlier poster really think that I was suggesting that a person must be born in Tn. to compete for a title? Of course not. Just another poor attempt at mis-direction to avoid having to post anything original.

Here we go with the True State Champion argument again. Every Champion in both divisions are true state champions. They each rose to the top in their respective State Tournaments and deserve their hard-fought victories. "True State Champion" is a term used by fans who want to see the best match-ups for their own entertainment. Do the State Champions in each football division play each other to get to this "truth"? How about Baseball? Basketball? I guess these kids are getting shorted by not having the chance to play the other division Champions, huh? No, I suspect that each hold their heads high and look at their accomplishment with great pride, as do their families and communities. Or is it only about individual sports? Let's go to the world of tennis as I mentioned earlier. If DI and DII were together, the best player from Tennessee would probably never hold a trophy. Why? Because a private recruit from any number of states and at least two foreign countries could very possibly knock him off in the early rounds. Is this the "True Tennessee State Champion" that you're referring to? That TN State Championship medal will find it's way back home.....only that home is not in our State. It's in Zimbabwe or Canada or any number of other States. But one thing is for sure. The Fans could finally sleep well at night knowing who is the "True State Champion." Don't worry about the TN kid.....he'll get over it. [Edited by slingshot on 4-12-03 10:15P]

Why in the world would any public person be concerned about your lack of fuzzy feelings? Are the private folks concerned when you give scholarships to the best public athletes (financial aid, work study, whatever...)then demand that we compete against them and all of the other all stars you have accumulated from across the country. I found it interesting last week reading the Times article concerning two battling tennis players from McCallie and Baylor. One from Canada and the other from Zimbabwe. You guys even get to shop in other Countries! Let's be truthful. The feeling seems to be that the "privates" want to seperate themselves from the "average" folks except when we can be of use to you. Most live in different neighborhoods, belong to different clubs, wear their hair and clothes differently (yes, I could absolutely pick out the boys from McCallie and Baylor in a line-up) and most importantly, send their children far from the evils of the "inferior" public education. Heck, even your first names are often seperatist. Visit the halls of Soddy or Red Bank and find these FIRST names: Coleman, Forrest, Thayer, Howell, Wells, Claytor, etc...the list goes on and on. The difference is that in the athletic arena, you find a need for the common man. Competition against your all-stars to validate their greatness. This is America. Attend where you want. Belong to whatever you choose. Name your children anything you desire. But when you attempt to further your own cause at the expense of public schools, don't expect the publics to grin and thank you for it.

If Bradley is an "ok" team, what does that make the Blue Raiders? 4 games...4 wins...4 different sets of referees.. Just so I have it straight, are ALL Bradley fans, players and "so called" administrators Racist cheaters, or just the police officers, or just the students? Help me out, because between your obvious bitterness and insults, it's getting very confusing.

Immature Bradley fans? Okay, sometimes highschool kids can be immature, particularly at big events with their biggest rival. But maybe you should be careful throwing stones. Anyone at the game(s) with an ounce of honesty in them will tell you that the "school spirit" went both ways equally. Did you check out the many signs, some vulgar, in the Cleveland student section or the megaphone blasted insults directed at Bradley players in both the district and region finals? Probably not, because we tend to see what we choose to see, particularly while absorbing our 4th consecutive loss to our biggest rival. Just makes us feel a little better if we can villanize the other team while putting angel wings on our own backs. As to the two "adults" who rescued the entire gym from a certain riot caused by the Bradley fans.... I had the unique experience of sitting very near them throughout the game. Those two heroes dropped more F-bombs during the game than Kellen Pickel 3-pointers. At one point, following a call they didn't agree with, they actually got up and proceded down the steps toward the court while filling the air with a tapestry of profanity aimed directly at the referee who had made the call (at FULL volume!). I just couldn't exactly figure out where they thought they were going?? One last thing. What's with the warm-up music? I'm not so out of touch that I don't realize the popularity of that music. However, with the majority of people there over 20 years old or young children, why is profanity-laced music with endless sexual references so accepted? Getting properly pumped up for a game is one thing. However compromising our standard of what is acceptable in a High School setting is another. Surely the Coach or Athletic Director can find some popular music that is appropriate. Is it just not that important?.......why not?

bad post [Edited by slingshot on 2-25-03 6:33P]

"an off day"? "sometimes the best wrestler does not win"? Could the same be said when Kyle beat Shawn?? Who knows? But if the Cordell parents had gotten on here and implied it, I can imagine a pretty angry mother James bristling up at the idea. Let's see, Kyle beat Shawn on skill, speed, etc..etc.., but Jordans wins were on "off days"? Interesting. Rabbit is embarrassment enough for Kyle, but now this??

Working together to improve our sport is, of course a good idea. However, it is not as if we are trying to push a dying whale back into the water. Our State has produced more DI quality wrestlers in the past 4-5 years than ever before. Our numbers of Highschool All-Americans has been impressive and we're clearly making a name for ourselves as a wrestling state. Once considered a bit of a joke on the national scene, Tennessee has gained much respect. While banding together for the good of the sport is a positive move, let's not forget that while our product can always use some tweeking, it's far from broken. (but I certainly agree that we can and should aspire to reach the next level. Just want to give credit to those who came before...)

I would be curious to know where Coach Connell stands on this issue. No doubt that fans are selfish by nature and long to be entertained. Coach Connell is not only a coach but also a father. The moment that Lee won his title, winning over a favored opponent was enjoyable to watch. Father and son at center mat enjoying the final moments of a high school career together, embraced. What a perfect scene and ending to a steller career. Was Coach Connell angry that Lee would not now have to wrestle yet another match to satisfy the fans and determine who is "the best"? Then, fans would be entertained and either Lee or Dustin Catlett could end their happiness with a heart breaking loss. Imagine the 28 Champions, reaching the pinnacle of their highschool careers, now forced to put it all on the line yet again after enduring the physical and mental stress of a State Tournament. Although there are some who may welcome this, (probably the ones who would be favored) I haven't heard the wrestlers in either D1 or D11 asking for this. Instead, I hear the fans and others who don't really have a dog in the hunt, just a need to be entertained. Of course people want to see great match ups. But what is wrong with a young man reaching his goal of becoming a State Champion in his division and enjoying that moment with complete satisfaction? Do other sports do this? Does it happen in tennis? How about in swimming? Does the AA Football State Champions feel the need to play the AAA State Champions the next day? In track? How about baseball? Do the A State Champions play the AAAA? Because, you know, the fans would love it! And this is, after all about pleasing the fans, right? Give these kids a break. Lee Connell and Dustin Catlett and 26 more just like them are State Champions who end their careers with a big win. What is so wrong with that? You guys with nothing on the line need to see a little competition? Find a freestyle singlet and enter an open tournament. Put your own butt on the line.

Rabbit, you are a real piece of work. You criticize Quinn's selection because he was taken down once and caught on his back for a brief instant. Yet, last year, a Soddy wrestler named Yost got OW over a 4 time State Champ and we never heard a peep from you. Besides the fact that Keller crushed him both times they wrestled, Yost spent some quality time on his back during last years tournament. But I guess we all have selective memory. You just choose to post every thought you have on a message board. A little advice though. Find a new subject for a while. We all get it. You're extremely fond of Kyle James. Can you find anything to post about that does not come back to him? Surely you can come up with something...anything! You've posted that you respect Kyle's abilities because you wrestle with him. If you doubt Quinn Gibson, take a drive to Cleveland and check out his abilities. I think you'll be impressed...and a little quieter for a while.

Takedown3, I know Coach Logsdon and he doesn't owe you an explanation. He has been coaching and debating this subject for a long time and is very tired of each new set of opposing parents/fans demanding an explanation every few years. What is next? His views on religion? or maybe Iraq? maybe his political choices? his favorite color? I will tell you this. If you're really so curious, I have a crazy idea. Go up to him, look him in the eye, introduce yourself and ask your question. I'm pretty sure that curious adults usually handle questions in that manner. He won't bite you, and as he states, you'll have an opportunity to stand behind your sarcasm.

Let's get to the truth walkenvol. You've spent the better part of the last decade running down Bradley wrestling at every opportunity. Now you've got Coach Logsdon getting his butt kicked in fictional matches. Do you feel better? In reality, you and Steve locked up once in the Soddy Daisy gym between sessions. You initiated it and you regretted it. You were taken down no less than 18 times in a row with nothing to offer in return. That's right, not one. I noticed on another board, you wanted to bet someone about another topic " because tuition was due". Do you want to bet on this one, too? Seems that Israel Heil's dad was in the stands that day with his little old cam-corder. It seems he captured all 18 consecutive takedowns on tape. Yes, I've seen it and it is ugly. To your credit, you finally walked (stumbled) away. Still don't believe me? Call Steve. I'm sure he can find that tape in the back of the closet somewhere and get you a copy. Oh, I forgot. You only talk ABOUT Coach Logsdon, never TO him.

Well cw, at least you didn't call me ignorant this time. However, with all of your arrogance comes a little mis-information. If it is seeded by the results from the year before, answer this question for me.... Last year, Bradley was the DEFENDING Champion and ranked #1 in DI, yet had to face Clarksville in the semis. Soddy Daisy, who was 3RD the year before had a much easier path to the finals based on any/every criteria. Yes, there's a little ignorance of facts here cw. Your view seems clouded with some type of Purple haze. Before you react with inaccurate information and name calling this time, maybe you should do a little more research.

CW160, EASY THERE BOY. NO NEED TO GIVE YOURSELF A CORONARY. WE ARE JUST DISCUSSING A SPORT HERE. NOW, TAKE A DEEP BREATH, COUNT TO TEN, AND CALM DOWN. ISN'T IT GREAT THAT WE CAN ALL VOICE OUR OPINIONS ABOUT THE GREAT SPORT OF WRESTLING?

Not to split hairs here, but actually your entire tiny little post concerned McCallie and their beating of Cleveland. If you don't recall mentioning the Big Blue, then who else named McCallie were you referring to? (who have wrestlers named Connell and Levitt)...

Crosby is tough without a doubt, but the fan club should take a minute to check the record books before throwing around the title of "100-0". In the 2001 Traditional State Tournament, he fell in the semi's to a pretty good HWT from Bradley named Lee Jackson. A tough, overtime loss but none-the-less, a loss. Best of luck to Daniel.

If you can't beat'em, slander'em huh? By the way, is "cowardicy" another of your brain farts? Sad that some must fight so hard to find some/any fault with successful programs. Even more Ironic that the poster who slings mud at others hides behind a fake identity, huh Remluf...............can you say,.."cowardicy"?

HOUSTONSDEAD, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHOWING ME THE ERROR OF MY WAYS IN SPELLING. I AM FOREVER GRATEFUL, AND I WILL TRY TO DO BETTER IN THE FUTURE.

No one argues that Clarksville does a fine job, but a major reason they have it is to passify those who are tired of travelling to Chattanooga each year for the Trad. tourn and don't want to travel again, or as far for the duals. Clarksville (or Nashville) is centrally located, so most folks are happy. There's no problem with it being in that part of the state. Are you, however not going to acknowledge that having it in their own gym is a huge boost to their program, both in fan support and financially? Are there no other schools that deserve that same luxury on some type of rotating basis so that several schools (including Clarksville) might get a chance to receive this gift from the TSSAA each year?

Now that the teams are set, one has to wonder about the ever-secretive draw. Doesn't seem quite right that in a "seeded" sport such as ours, it often does not apply at the DI State Duals. Will the 2 highest state ranked teams be seperated? One would certainly think so, yet so often in the past, two top teams meet in the semi's, while another team has a much easier road even though they hold a lower ranking. We must accept that each year Clarksville is allowed financial gains that hosting allows. And the obvious "home court" advantage that they enjoy as they compete each year is also a plus. Must they also get treated as a #1 seed, thus ensuring a high dollar finals. I hope that I am way off base here....only time will tell.

TNWRESTLE86, EVIDENTLY, YOU WERE NOT AT THE BRADLEY INV. THIS YEAR. CREAGAN DESTROYED HOUSTON. I AGREE, HOUSTON IS A GREAT WRESTLER, BUT ALSO BELIEVE THAT CREAGAN WILL BE THIS YEARS STATE CHAMP. A GREAT WRESTLER AS WELL AS A GREAT KID.

If you come back in another life, can I suggest showing up as an old, worn-out broken record? ps. Or maybe as a guy who beats dead horses?