TNwrestler

pbp1185- Hiller and Gooden wrestled this year at the Ryan Invitational and Hiller beat him 7-1 . And the thing is, the 7-1 score makes it sound closer than it really was. Hiller dominated him.

I tend to agree with all of you more and more about Bosken. I think it would be a better match than most would expect, but mainly because Dunning does just enough to get by. He is a great wrestler that, without a doubt in MY mind, would beat Bosken but you're right, it would be no more than a major but most likey a decision. I put a decision in my previous post and I'm going to stick with that. By the way, does anyone know Dunning's record? I know that he has only lost once in the last 3 years.

I honestly think that coach Connell would want Lee to wrestle Catlett, and I know for a fact that every state champion that I have talked to wanted and still wants to wrestle the best from the other division. Wrestlers are not babies and they get into the sport because they, as individuals, love to compete. Yes, it would hurt to be a state champion in your division and then lose in a matchup against your counterpart, but they would learn more from that loss than from their state championship. As for other sports, an indivdual state championship in wrestling is just that, an individual accomplishment. Wrestling has always been between the best wrestlers in the whole state, except for the past 6 years, so people and state champions are naturally going to want to speculate and wish for a matchup. In my post above, I put down my picks if there was a matchup and personally, I enjoy reading who everyone thinks is the best and I hope everyone appreciates my opinions as well. So back to our subject, DI champ vs. DII champ: who would win?

Here are my picks. I did a little research so here you go.... 103: Dunning dec. Coleman (White and Manson beat Coleman & Dunning beat both of them) DI-0 DII-3 112: Hiller dec. Ibrahim (I believe Hiller has beat him before; nonetheless, he's the best 112 in the state) DI-0 DII-6 119: Leen dec. James (Leen beat him 3-0 at McCallie) DI-0 DII-9 125: Silberman dec. Bird (Silberman beat him 8-7 at McCallie) DI-0 DII-12 130: Dunning dec. Bosken (Never wrestled to my knowledge but Dunning is the best 130 in the state, he could pin him but benefit of the doubt he just decisions) DI-0 DII-15 135: Lane dec. Manley (Lane beat him 6-4 at McCallie) DI-3 DII-15 140: Creagan vs. Blair (too close to call, could go either way) no points either way 145: Scott maj. McKinney (Couldn't find if they wrestled, but Scott could probably pin this guy, benefit of the doubt he only majors him) DI-3 DII-19 152: Catlett dec. Connell (Connell is not the same wrestler as he used to be, but he could win if he was on) DI-6 DII-19 160: Gibson maj. McTorry (Gibson is a much better wrestler, but McTorry is quick and a strong defensive wrestler and would NOT allow more than a major) DI-10 DII-19 171: Marable dec. Jones (Marable beat a good Luttrel many times this year, if someone knows if Luttrel & Jones wrestled at the MBA duals, let me know) DI-10 DII-22 189: Freels dec. Greenwood (Greenwood can be inconstant, but could go either way) DI-13 DII-22 215: Thornhill dec. Evans (Thornhill placed #1 at Ryan tourny and Evans placed #3. They didn't wrestle but Thornhill would win) DI-13 DII-25 275: Crosby pin. Cooper (Crosby pinned Cooper in a minute at Ryan tourny) DII-25 over DI-19. Even if Creagan won, DII would still win 25-23. It would be a great match but DII would be the victor. I'm open for discussion if someone disagrees.

I saw the match at the Ryan tournament and Marable didn't seem to stall. He was the one who shot at the end of the match while he was up by 1 point. I don't think stalling has anything to do with their next match, just who wants it more.

If DII state champs wrestled DI state champs, DII would win. But if DII placers (3,4,5,6) wrestled DI placers, then DI would win. As for the dual tournament, we may never know. However, DI and DII are pretty much equal. A DI team could be the best one year and then the next a DII could be best. Just my opinion.

sly- How did Musser do at the Bradely tournament? Did he and Creagan wrestle?

lovetowrestle- Thanks for the great post.

Sly- Thanks for the post. If all Bradely is concentrating on is a DI state championship, then they are doing a great job. I understand what they're doing but as a wrestling fan, it is natural for us to want to see the best team in DI go up against the best team in DII. Who knows, maybe one day it could happen.

walkenvol- Great post, I totally agree with everything you said. Bradely fans- There is no doubt that Bradely should be ranked #1 in division I. Sly and Silverbullet, both of you are right in saying that they have beaten everyone they needed to in order to win the DI state. Yet, the controversy is not which team is the best in the DI state; instead, it's which team is the best in the entire state of Tennessee? And until Bradely wrestles the DII champ, there is going to be controversy so deal with it. If Bradely wants it to end, then just wrestle DII schools and there will be no question. I, personally, am mainly a DII fan but I would love it if Bradely defeated the DII champ so atleast we all would know which team is the best in the entire state. I don't want there to be a controversy just as much as you, but we have to face the facts. The best team in DI does not wrestle the best team in DII. Period.

I read the article that Collierville won the Franklin tournament and Baylor won the Alabama tournament. Were there any other tournaments this weekend? How did Father Ryan and MBA do at Mater Dei? Where was Bradely, McCallie, Soddy, Clevland, and other big schools this weekend?

Does anyone know if the TennBest Weekly is coming out this week or is Rob skipping this week due to Christmas?

They're good but not that good. Bradely only has 4 top ranked wrestlers projected to be champs: Cordell, Creagan, Catlett, and Gibson. Don't get me wrong, that is great but we don't need to "post Bradley's line up with a few exceptions as the one's to beat!" I'm not bashing just being realistic.

timj- Thanks for the info. Do you know who won the other weight classes? Also, when I checked the brackets, it showed me the same thing that it showed me all day: everything except finals and the last few matches in consolations. Just wondering if you had some more info.

I think that Michael White and Whit Dunning both got tough draws in the 103lb weight class. They will have to wrestle each other in the quarterfinals, and the winner has to wrestle Cory Manson. Maybe I don't know my 103 lb weight class that well, but I was under the impression that these three guys were the best 103's there, and now that they're going to meet before the finals. Does anyone know if the McEachern 103 Anton Prater is that good because he got the #1 seed. I thought he's been beat by one of these guys. Please post if you have information. Thanks.

Walkenvol- I imagine that the tournament will only be seen in the Chattanooga area, correct? Do you know of any way to see a live webcast or something like that? Its a long shot but I would love to see some of the matches.

Does anyone know if Jamie Castleman is still wrestling? He was a 2X state champ out of Father Ryan, and was one of the best wrestlers in the state in 97, 98, and 99. Also, I didn't even know MTSU had a wrestling team. Is it club or varsity?

lovetowrestle- In what I have seen in the past, it takes a few years to get nationally ranked. In football for instance, MBA won the state championship a few years in a row under a highly recruited Ingle Martin. The same thing in baseball, Oakland and CBHS both have been nationally ranked because of several successful seasons and big name players. I think wrestling has a similar criteria. I was surprised that Bradely wasn't ranked last or this year because they have come off consecutive state championships with a highly recruited Matt Keller. I also thought that Father Ryan would have broke into national ranks after winning state 4 times in 5 years (96,98,99,00). However, that didn't pan out either. This has to be a result of DI schools not wrestling DII schools. No one will say a Tennessee team is one of the best in the nation without them knowing if they are the best in Tennessee. Unless the divisions reunite, the DI state champ wrestles the DII, or Baylor and Bradely keep winning the state a few more years in a row while knocking off a top ranked team, then we won't see Tennessee or Tennessee teams get the respect they deserve. By the way, I like the fresh change of topic. [Edited by TNwrestler on 12-18-02 12:13A]

Will someone please post the score when you get it. Thanks.

frhsrules- I'm not sure if your post was directed at me, but just in case I said that many people are ignorant to Father Ryan's situation, NOT Father Ryan is ignorant. People think that Father Ryan recruits wrestlers and I wanted to clarify that they do not. Sorry for the confusion. Also, the website I posted doesn't seem to work. But if you want to find TSSAA records, go to www.tssaa.org, click on "history", then "past champions and records". From here you can check any sport or any team.

frhsrules- I'm not sure if your post was directed at me, but just in case I said that many people are ignorant to Father Ryan's situation, NOT Father Ryan is ignorant. People think that Father Ryan recruits wrestlers and I wanted to clarify that they do not. Sorry for the confusion. Also, the website I posted doesn't seem to work. But if you want to find TSSAA records, go to www.tssaa.org, click on "history", then "past champions and records". From here you can check any sport or any team.

lovetowrestle- You have some very good points. I too know some guys that went to another public school-from Franklin to Brentwood when Brentwood had some real good teams. I also know for a fact that Father Ryan does not recruit, and if they do they don't do it well, becasue they passed up Tennessee defensive end John Henderson for a scholarship when he was at St. Pius. And as for their wrestling team, you can tell by the their last names that don't recruit. The Balt'z, Mondellis, Morales's, Simpson's, Dunning's, and Gorham's are just a few of the families that have had great wrestlers for the past thirty years. They go to Father Ryan for for a good Catholic education, which until this year was the only school in Middle Tennessee that offered that. I know this thread wasn't about recruiting but I think many people are ignorant to the situation, especially Father Ryan's. But as for best wrestling programs of all time, Father Ryan and McCallie lead the way with 8 team state championships and that is the best way that I know how to judge. Here is the link where I found that http://www.tssaa.org/schdir/records/GetTheRecord.cfm [Edited by TNwrestler on 12-11-02 12:36A]

fatkat- Do you know who they have wrestled? Has Father Ryan and MBA wrestled each other yet? What about Harrison? Thanks for the info.

Silverbullet- Point taken. The "Hilary Clinton" comment really puts it into perspective. I said all that stuff about weight loss and they're just kids because I have seen too many great wrestlers get burned out of the sport because they got TOO serious TOO early. But I guess that just seperates those who want it from those who don't.

Lovetowrestle- Ryan and MBA are going to wrestle in the Harrison Duals in Ohio. They both have wrestled up there the past couple of years but this year it falls on the Kenwood Klassic. I didn't think that MBA usually wrestled in the Kenwood tournament but either way there would be some good matches if they were there. And you're right...two years ago Ryan had 11 guys in the finals (10 champions) and 13 out of 14 placed.