Ericblair

Yep...that one was for the ages...I believe that official is now flogging citizens found guilty of J waking.

Generally you do see better officiating as you go deeper into tournament play but that is not an absolute. From what I've seen the majority of officials seem well qualified and well intended. Its the 20-25%that have no business being out there and whose primary motive is to experience power that could not be gained by other legitimate means that needs addressing.

Ditto to Tenntwin...unless your team is super compeditive and 14+ or so age, playing in AAU/YBOA sanctioned events is more expensive and a pain. (Each player has to be registered..birth certificates, etc) Too many other decent non sactioned venues to choose from. If you want to play in exposure style (college coaches etc coming to watch), again you don't need all the sanction stuff. I would encouage putting the team together as you can tell a big difference between those that play spring/summer ball and those that do not.

Doug S...I'm right there with you on the volunteer stuff. Problem is that the TSSAA nor anyone else wants any responsibility here because in doing so creates work and more importantly liability for itself. So then you have an ever increasing risk of sport (athletes bigger/faster) with no safeguards/checks/accountability when it matters most on those that control sport/risk. I could care less about how incompentency alters game outcomes, its player safety as Indian said above that is the main concern here. Couple than with flat pay (declining realtive pay) and you've got a real problem growing. Ironically, its unsuspecting athletes that have no say and that assume play will be controlled that risk the most because others don't want the liability themselves while they dedicate vast resources to issues such as recruiting/open records laws under the umbrella statement as "protecting the student athlete". How's that for fair play?

I don't think (opps sorry) that high school sports has a monopoly versus JUCO/NAIA/D2 on cranky or uninformed fans. As for the math...that would seem to support that no raises are ever necessary. And as for post season, how does that selection process work? I know that coaches have no say in it.

Doug S...you have some valid points. Pay is certainly not the only issue but if pay did not matter, even on the margin, then why pay anything. And being asked to officiate at the next level doesn't always mean you would go and I suspect pay then would factor in one's decision. For sure, blaming bad outcomes on officiating sends a wrong message and public degrading of anyone is indeed wrong. But as an accountability/competency messure, coaches get fired, players get cut, or players get pulled from games (and sometimes in rather humbling ways) when thier ability or effort is just not there. So why not also for those officiating that are just not capable especially if player saftey becomes an issue. Excusing suspect calls away by saying something was a judgment call doesn't make it all right anymore than a player saying to a coach after a boneheaded play that "it was a judgement call". As it stands now, neither the TSSAA or local associations have any processes to remove officials that are simply not qualified. It just doesn't seem to be a priority anywhere and the pay freeze seems to be consistent with all that. And as for spelling or other writing errors, if one where a jounalist, one would expect accountbility on such matters.

BigChief...sorry to have implied that the cost was insignificant even of a $5.00 increase. I am sure your $1500 number is accurate and it is indeed significant. My point is why does the Association generate enough revenue to support salary increases at the executive level along with making some $350,000 to $500,000 a year and sitting on over $2 million in cash not able to defer/reallocte some of its take so that schools can afford to pay more of their costs, whether its to improve officials, cleats or whatever. To find priority, trace money and the money in this case seems to be accumulating at the Association/Executive levels, while schools that actually earn the money struggle with everything from paying officials and making other ends meet....and that just feels a little weird.

You are right in that those that have left will probably not come back but if the differential in pay where narrowed, the better ones might stay at the high school level. The bottom line here is that the priority of good officiating by either pay or accountability processes is just not a priority for this Association. And this business of the fact that "schools pay for it" as the reason why to freeze pay (as if schools don't directly or indirectly pay for everything else that the Association does including Executive Comp) is a mere pedestrian end around designed to fuzz reality as to the real priority here.

Leave the gate and concessions stuff alone....the issue with pay isn't that it would help those that are currently officiating officate better...its to encourage the better ones to stay versus officiating elsewhere (JUCO/NAIA/D2). Pay is important to retaining talent at any level. Although I do agree that accountability is key but that is as likely as pigs flying or exectutive salary freezes. The TSSAA just doesn't buy into all that. The increased costs could be offset with what is sent to the TSSAA that obviously doesnt need to the money other that to pass along executive pay hikes. Again, why is it more important to pass along hefty pay increases to administrators/executives but not to those that actually call and control games?

TNHSfa Well said...there is no accountability, which I do believe to be the main culprit, and the TSSAA likes it that way because that in turn eliminates thier responsibility/accountability although thier bylaws specifically require such. However, I do believe that on the margin pay does matter and it would certainly appear to matter when it comes to executive compensation. If pay doesn't matter in retaining the best officials, why then is it so important to executives. By the way check out teflon's most recent attempt at voiding any and all responsibility. http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/Sports/article.php?id=104222

Good post Big Chief....a couple of thoughts... 1) Officials put more time into officiating than just game day...training/travel so I'm sure the hourly rate is much less than $28.00 not to mention expenses of being certified. 2) Any job whose comp is relaxed for 3-4 years will see outmigration of the better ability so long as other options are available as in this case JUCO, NAIA, DII for the better officials and the TSSAA has recongnized this. 3) Yes officals' pay is out of the schools programs pocket but so are gate, participation, playoff, hall of fame and other TSSAA fees that compromise resources and ability to pay other expenses...in this case officials. If the Association took less then schools would be able to pay more for officials. It just seems odd to me that so many programs struggle top make ends meet while its governing Association does well enough to sit on $2million in cash while passing along compensation increases that would be the envy of anyone in any athletic department in TN.

No, the real issue here is why is it okay to marginalize (leave flat) pay and thereby perhaps quality to those that control and determine the outcome and risk of sport but not okay for those in executive offices and for an Assocation that sits on over $2 million and will spend another $2.5 million in lawsuits et. al.? I don't want to be an official...I truly admire those that are for its hard work and should not be secretly marginalized for those that want to and are capable for the sake of executive benefits and other frivolous perogatives. That my friend is the issue here.

For varsity basketball I believe its $85 or $90 per game, which was increased last year by $5 after a four year freeze. Official's are paid directly by the schools and the Association took the position that athletic programs could not afford more and yet see first post, which athletic programs pay for too.

No use in complaining about officials. TSSAA admits that they loose the better officials each year to JUCO games and others due to pay. So what you end up with are weaker and weaker officials overseeing and controlling quicker and more physical games, which makes for a pretty bad combination. The real check here should be the ADs that make up the Control Board that have allowed officials' pay to stay flat (thereby diluting the game quality and increasing player risk) while allowing executive comp ($577,321 in 2011 and up over $113,000 from 2009) and Assocation profitability to yield over $2,000,000 cash in 2011. I guess its okay to have marginal officials so long as we have great executives.

Yep...you see this a lot not by just SBA but others too....with the objective being "Best of Preps" King or Queen for a day because all the Times really looks at to determine is stats.

RR…I’ve enjoyed your tread and post (second cousin once removed…heck that’s priceless) and do wish Maryville well this weekend. It ought to be a great game and to have ESPN there will be a real experience for fans and players alike. I would be remiss if I did not close out however with a final comment about the now understood (not yours of course) pedestrian slur of “ghetto ball†and the thinly disguised accusation of an covert plan by Cleveland’s coaching staff to remove Maryville’s helmets (as if preparing for Maryville wasn’t enough, we now need a plan to clandestinely remove helmets so players have to leave for a play only to bring in yet another exceptional and well coached Maryville athlete). While all teams perhaps have their moments or plays they are not proud of, anonymity should not give anyone the right to disparage in this fashion an entire team (coaches and all) and I suspect that Maryville or anyone’s fans would feel the same if the shoe where on the other foot. I’ve not seen anything but respect in these posts for what Maryville has accomplished on the field and just don’t understand why it is necessary that such venom be spewed on a defeated opponent. An opponent that by the way accepted some time ago, when perhaps no other team would, the challenge to play on the road in their season openers these past two years the class of Tennessee state football in Alcoa and Maryville. I guess it just seems more appropriate to discuss the merits of a trap offense, 3-4 defense or like the players, shake hands, congratulate each other on their respective efforts and to end it with a good luck for the balance of the season instead of all this other nonsense. Good luck Sunday.

This thread is getting a bit old but in the spirit of clarity, could you reference the timing of the plays. I too have seen the game film and didn't catch that but would like to.

Red Rebel....thank you for the response...I can see why but in no way did I intended to associate your ideas with GreyRider, whom the latter half of my response was intended for. I found no harm in your good natured post and apologize for the misunderstanding. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for bringing it to light. Good luck this weekend.

Well I suspect that Bradley has won something these past forty years perhaps not enjoying the recent success of Maryville’s football program as very few have. But hope and optimism are not bad things and never hurt anyone. Disparaging an entire team if not school and community by using terms like "ghetto ball" however does and has no place and should not be accepted, retranslated or defended. I think it’s somewhat instructive that 15-18 year old young men put their skills, heart and soul on the line every Friday night for everyone to view and judge and always half will walk off the field scoreboard losers. Only then to have to tolerate the endless mindless catch phrases like “man upâ€, “just didn’t get it doneâ€..etc. and now even worse pejoratives, all from seemingly adult minds. I suspect we won’t get an answer to the ghetto ball question because cowardice is ignorance's second cousin and often found in the same gene pool.

Maryville is an outstanding team with a great fan base and that most programs aspire to be. Cleveland lacked the depth to really compete but I suspect is going to be a factor in thier district race. As for the dirty hits, etc...I thought this was a fairly well played and officated game with some missed and late hits on both sides, none of which turned the outcome of the game. I suspect that the misguided author of the ghetto comment has no clue of its actual meaning ("ghetto" is a part of a city that Jews where forced to live in Europe during WWII). I doubt that much football was played in the ghettos during WWII and I suspect that Cleveland doesn't have ghettos either. The comments are really unfortunate and out of line when you consider all the hard work that goes into game day. In any case, mental migets are everywhere and the author doesn't represent the class and character of Maryville or Cleveland, either of which he might consider attending.

These types of lists of individual accomplishments on a team sport are certainly more destructive than not and will almost always generate controversy and for good reason as there will always be 3 or 4 good players left out for every one selected. I suspect that voters actually watched very few of the players they voted on and further, relying on stats as a gauge presumes similar competition and playing time which we all know to be false. Nothing against these individual selections as I know many of them but, let college coaches determine the players that best fit their programs and toss these ill-conceived and administered lists in the can where they belong.

Smallie???? Anybody in there...just nod if you can here us...is there anyone at home?

Smallie...yes I am suprised to hear of an incident of Bradley storming the court. In an earlier post I understood Blackmon enthusiasm but I really dont recall a storm the court scenerio for Bradley. What game did you see that?

1) There is no way of knowing who would have won in OT, both teams where equally matched, that’s why you go to overtime. 2) I see no problem with Bradley’s coach saying nor does it question the ref’s integrity, that the coach doesn’t know if anything was said or not because that’s effectively what the closest ref said by not calling the T himself. Having been told and knowing of something first hand are different. 3) No way Bradley’s coach tolerates this if he knows it, he's yanked too many chains, 4) Last night’s technical was this young man’s first, I believe. 5) The act that caused the technical was not noticeable by 95% of the people, which is part of the challenge here. Only after alerting the scorer’s table that then made the announcement did most including Blackmon’s coach know what happened. 6) I thought Blackmon’s staff and coaches did a good job with managing the crowd and game, despite a random few that should not indict the whole, 7) Both are exceptional coaches and teams, 8) The ref that made the call was overturned by the ref closest to this action on at least one previous occasion. 9) No one on this post would ever condone F bombs, GDs etc. and yet they happen and I and some on this post have dropped one or two in less stressful circumstances… 10) Unlike 99% of all other calls in a season, with 1.5 seconds in a season and career ending non action call, there should be no gray here whatsoever, none, zero, natta and in Jack Nicholson’s words…are we clear, yes…ARE WE CLEAR, CRYSTAL. And that’s where the fun begins here. If an off the court in timeout “technical†act was worthy of effectively ending any team’s season, how can 95% of the fans, coaches, players and including all but one lone official be unaware of it. Is it that he and he alone went looking for it, and behold found it? The closest ref heard nothing, so is it possible (maybe not probable) that this Bear dropped anything other than an F bomb, or is it possible (maybe not probable) that he dropped it or anything other on himself teammate or anyone other than the ref closet to him that heard nothing. If you are going to take a game, season, career out of the hands of its players and coaches, you would like to have greater clarity than was present last night.

With 1.5 seconds to go and tied at 36-36 and seemingly headed to overtime, I thought to myself, tonight’s sub state matchup between Bradley Central and Blackmon is one of the best coached, played, cheered, managed and officiated basketball games I have ever witnessed. Players and coaches poured their hearts, guts, sweat and soul out in a dizzying display of presses, traps, back doors, dunks, rotations and substitution patterns that honored their respective coach’s last six months of considerable passion and diligent preparations. Both student sections were absolutely phenomenal and while the losing side will always feel like the winners are overly jazzed up, going to state is a great deed and worthy of great even if somewhat uncontrolled emotions. Officials called an outstanding game with this being by far the best crew seen in some time. Knowing that I had been witness to a great experience, I was truly prepared for winning or losing. And then it happened...…unbelievable, unthinkable, and unforgivable…and with a noooooooooo better than Darth Vader's at learning of Padme's death....someone pooped on my Mona Lisa and tinkled on my Sistine Chapel of high school basketball. With 1.5 seconds to go and teams headed to their bench after a time out, a technical foul from the back official somewhere north of Nashville was called for what he thought a player said to another official. Seriously….with six months of preparation, hopes and aspiration of fans, coaches, parents alike, this game…a game that is the passing ground to the holy grail of Tennessee High School basketball…a technical in a tie game with 1.5 seconds to go. Did the player hit someone, moon anybody, steal some baby’s lollipop…what on earth could have happen at that moment under those circumstances that would cause this game’s ending to be given/taken away in this fashion. Like how many licks it takes to get the center of a tootsie pop…the world may never know. Please know that nothing here is intended to take away from Blackmon’s win and congratulations are indeed in order. But like having Rhett Butler saying to Scarlet….â€I really don’t know†versus “I don’t give a damnâ€...this game…these coaches and these fans deserved a better ending. Somewhere tonight an official is watching his favorite mentor Barney Fife (rules are rules) and trying to convince himself of the correctness of his technical call and yet no matter how hard he tries, he’ll know along with his two other crew members that his perspective failed in a most critical moment and along with that ruined a great ending to this game so deserving of these two schools. Blackmon…good luck at State.