Stopthepress

And im not sure of his name but White Co PG will cause fits for C ville as well.

C ville or no one for that matter will have a player that matches up with Henderson from White Co. The Richmond kid will be really solid for C ville this year but not at that level. The Yoder,Bates and Payne kids were the two that matched up with him. Trouble in the making lol.

Agreed on all counts regarding Henderson. Shouldn't have been able to do what he did at all. Threw his body around with kids that were 6 and 7 inches taller. Outrebounded them too. He reminded me of the kid from Stone named Brandon Cole. Henderson was a kid all coaches would love to have. Case either. Very small differences on Roper and Hill.In my position where I deal with college potential, I offer a spot to Roper if I am forced. Bates may be the only one I cant say a negative thing about. Aside from his being physically limited at the college level. With Payne, he is still playing. Has more time to develop. I will give you an actual example. While the others had great seasons , he just finished a summer where hitting the 40 point mark in a game wasn't uncommon. And that isnt agaisnt Warren Co with all due respect. He did so against several nationally top ranked players and teams. I think he was horribly inconsistent but it may have passed, but idk. Would give a lot to see Roper playing anywhere though.

And, again, not to regress to our previous state but I really want to emphasize, I think Bray is a good man. I think he was a really good coach. But peoples time pass. Its just my opinion based on things I know. I do not want to appear as a coach bashing lunatic. I see it all the time. In my opinion, I think he has lost a love of the game and that has in turn caused some poor decisions. You could say the same about me in my position. It happens to everyone at one point in time or another. I will not be able to follow the district as much this year but I will be intrigued how it plays out. I just cant see the Henderson kid and White Co not running away with the crown. And one thing I guarantee, no one in the state was happier to hear all this news of kids and coaches leaving, than White Countys coach was. I am fairly certain Stone will be down massively,Cville cant be what they would have, and well, who is left?

Okay. Keep in mind I have cover a larger group of kids. Lets see, Talent: 1.Payne.Fortunately for him and unfortunately for Cville, he seems to have gotten over a mental hump this summer. 2. Roper. Not far behind in potential. 3. Hill. Limited to a certain position in college and just not in a good situation in college. 4. Bates. Coach on the floor as I have stated. Actually a little limited when it comes to physical talent. 5. Ledbetter. College body, just Did not have a love of the game like the others. As is/was: 1a. Hill stats speak for themselves. 1b. Roper. Made it happen, floor GENERAL. 1c. Payne, had trouble with consistency, but Ive kept up with his summer = INSANE. 4. Bates. Just can't say a negative thing about the kid. 5. Henderson. Played way above his level. My honorable mentions would be Carver on talent. Believe it or not. That kid has all the pieces to be a on ball defensive nightmare. As is honorable mention is Case. Had no business playing as well as he did, if that makes sense. Hill best shooter. Roper best leader. Bates highest level of basketball awareness. Payne most potential.

I completely agree with that last post. Those boys are all that matter in the end. I also agree on the "agree to disagree" sport debate standpoint. I kind of had that exact information relayed to me regarding the Payne kid and his leaving. The Schrums are another story entirely. That is awkward at best. I cant see a scenario that plays out in a positive way for them. And for that I am sad. But I have witnessed more bizarre transfers that went for the players. Who knows. So now that this thread has taken a friendly turn, and I agree about the drink by the way, lets have some more fun and debate talent. Give me your top 5, in order, most talented players at Cookeville in the last 5 seasons. This is solely based on talent. Then give me your top 5 "as is" players also.

You know Alumn, I think we may be getting somewhere! I came into the forum to simply read and actually get a good laugh. The reason I felt the need to "bash" if you will was because you were making light of and teasing someones input. You actually said that some comments were laughable, I believe was your wording, but I could very well be wrong. You did say they were a great fiction writer and had no idea what was going on. Someone was just making comments that in all honesty, was not too far off from what I know as accurate, and you were poking fun at that. When in actuality it wasn't too far off. So I was more so defending that other person than I was bashing Bray. As far as coaches making offers to the player, you are correct. But if local colleges can seek input from a high school coach that coached at the college level, they typically will. If you remember, I clearly said that Bray was not a bad man. I just felt he has lost his desire and love for coaching. As far as Roper goes, again, my wording. He was and still remains a division 1 talent. He also should be playing somewhere right now. So skilled and smart with the basketball. UTC had serious interest. But he also would probably been better served at the division 2 level, however, talent alone he was a low-major division 1 talent. Bates, again, in perfect spot. Possibly highest basketball knowledge kid Bray may have had at Cookeville. The Payne kid was an anomaly. I do not care to name drop here but a coach at Tech said he and the Henderson kid from White Co were the best two basketball "talents" to come from the area since Jolly. I can see why you think that about the Payne kid though, but he just has to get it all together if you will. From a complete and total perspective of talent and potential alone, he is the highest level kid Bray has had, with Roper a very close second. And that is what college coaches look for. UTC, Tech, Austin Peay, and UT Martin all have head coaches that have shared this sentiment about both Roper and Payne. Oh, and speaking of the Payne kid, both Bray and the former assistant said he should play at the division 1 level they just weren't sure if he could bring it together mentally. Ledbetter has size. You cannot coach that. Not many kids walking through the door with that size anymore. I have heard negatives of him from college coaches that made contact, but again, that is where the high school coach has to pick up and run with things to make them see the importance of getting a free education. Ledbetter should be playing right now at a division 2 or 3 school. Or naia for that matter. And as far other teams in the Chatt area. The major players have lost everyone. Anything can happen in the tournament but things had clearly set up for Cookeville and their team to make a run. They were considered the team to beat in that district/region. But you have to admit, under any circumstances, losing a player like Payne in his senior year, two brothers to an in county school,a key backup, and an assistant all at once is a little suspicious. I do not care how the reasoning or excuses sound for why the kids left. People that are doing things against the rule book or that have turmoil within all have things that sound like legitimate excuses as well. There is something to this. Especially in a year when these boys had a shot to do something that had never been done at the school before. For so many to walk away? The Schrums situation still baffles me. Not sure what is taking place with them. I have asked around and I cannot make heads or tails of how they are playing right away. Payne to GoodPasture raises eyebrows a little, especially with him breaking into a different level this summer (you probably did not hear about how crazy good his summer season was), and anytime a kid has broken onto the scene, if you will, then lands at that type of school it seems a little questionable. I did research into that one as well and it seems extremely legitimate. The dad lives very close to that school and he went to live with his dad. But still, you get the point. Then an assistant walks away. From what everyone in the district described as his group of boys? I have heard the reasons and ok, they may be valid, but again, perception. Oh, and the old adage, where there is smoke there is fire!

I apologize. I did not elaborate well enough. I can take criticism when I deserve it and in this instance I did not clarify. I meant they were the team to beat in the district and region. They were the team to beat in that pathway to the state tourney. They were not and would not be the team to beat or even one of the top 5 in the tourney but they would and should have been the team in that district and region.

I can handle jokes and being made fun of. It is par for this course. That is fair game. But I will be brutally honest. I cannot speak for you, any Cookeville parents, Shavonda, Bray, Roper, Payne, Bates, or any other kid. I cannot speak for any of those kids parents. I can say I find it odd that Payne moves to Nashville at lands at Good Pasture of all places and the Schrums are in county and eligible. So my point there is that I can only speak for myself, someone that has made a living of evaluating and coaching high school basketball players. I can elaborate on what coaching peers in the state say. I can bring talent evaluation to the table on a high school and college level. There have been 3 Cookeville teams in particular that peers expected to make a run at state. I did not say win, but at the minimum, make a run to get there. None of them came close. This seasons team wont even step on the floor. Most are now gone. There have been 7 kids over the past 5 years that have had serious college looks. Only 2 have been seriously looked at or offered at the division 1 level. 2 others had an outside shot at that. Of the 8 teams in this years AAA state championship tourney, 3 of them didn't have a single division 1 player or prospect. So to say Cookeville did not have the talent to make a run is incorrect. They did. But they were inconsistent and poorly led. Inconsistent play is a direct reflection of coaching. You should know this. I can I can bring actual events that took place to the table and Bray got in trouble for an issue with a coach in Chattanooga. And I am now going to do something I typically would never do. But you felt the need to be classless and actually call out players and give positive/negative feedback on what you thought about them. I was stating issues with coaching. You actually made it personal about players by directly stating what you thought of players by name. So this is an obvious indication that you have a VERY direct tie to Bray and felt the need to defend what you think. Here are some more FACTS for you. Based on evaluation sites, coaches from other teams, AAU coaches, college coaches(at various levels), oh and Bray! He did give feedback on his players from time to time. Roper was a division 1 talent! Period, end of discussion. He should be playing somewhere now. Got zero assistance from Bray. Hill was a division 2 talent. Ledbetter was a division 2/naia talent. Could have made several college rosters. Henderson had several NAIA schools drooling over him after his senior year. Never received any feedback from one school in particular. Bates is a solid division 2 talent. He is at the perfect place for him. Basketball knowledge through the roof, he is a coach on the floor. Bray had nothing to do with helping him get recruited. Younger Schrum brother has a shot at making a naia roster somewhere if he continues to develop. Payne has more colleges looking at him than all of them combined, only other realistic division 1 scholarship player aside from Roper. Richmond has a shot of making a naia roster. Even the Barton kid could potentially do naia with the right coaching. These are REAL evaluations. Actual on paper. From people way smarter than you or I. So lets compare that. Wilson Central who by the way destroyed Cookeville this year, had 2 maybe a third potential college kid. Brentwood didn't have a single division 1 prospect. And for as good siegel was, not a single division 1 commit. Cookeville had the talent to compete. I promise you that.

I never said that any coach said Cookeville was the team to beat. I said they were set to make a deep run. So please get the information straight first. I did not, at any point say they should win state. I said they should have made more runs then they have. And they should have. As for the website, this website has it blocked and will literally not allow you to type the name in. It shows up as: unapproved website. You are more than welcome to try trial and error until you figure out which one. I am also very aware of the fact that a particular player did not want to play unless it was division 1. I also know that the very next year following his leaving, he made it very well known that he wished he had played somewhere. Hmmm. Seems like a good coach would have stressed that more. Also, your opinion is very accepted regarding the Payne kid but, in all fairness, there appear to be numerous college level coaches that couldn't disagree with you more as he is now being ranked in the top 50 by a few different TN based sites. Not too mention that at a high level tournament over this pass summer, he was offered by 3 division 1 colleges. I am not saying there haven't been other that shouldn't have been offered at that level, because there should have. But that only plays into my point. Bates and Roper should have gotten some. That alone shows me the level of knowledge you bring to the discussion. You mention one particular player didn't want to play unless it was division 1 and that Payne isn't a top 100 player. Roper, Hill, Bates and Payne were all considered top 100 players in Tennessee by a particular site and at least for the Roper and Payne kids, they both could have or will play at a division 1 level. And also, no one said the teams were great! Again, you are obviously allowing some form of emotion to be involved. Cookeville SHOULD be better. Period. You can think what you will of certain players, you can make what excuses you want. They should roll through that conference. Example, last season they beat Stone Memorial at home. Then they lose to Clarkrange at home a week later. They beat Cumberland Co at home in 13-14 by 30, then 2 weeks later get beat them when it mattered. Why do you have such a difficult time seeing what is in front of you?

Also, Alumn89, I find it very interesting that you say everyone is incorrect or a fiction writer. If it were just one person, I could see your point. If it were two, I would question it a little, but there are numerous people saying these things. So your claims of my being a disgruntled parent or a district coach could in turn be met with you being a misinformed homer!

I only deal with factual information. Fact: I am not a disgruntled parent. Fact: I do not coach in the district. Fact: A school in Chattanooga will not schedule Cookeville anymore because of an issue with him being misleading regarding team transportation that WAS brought up before the TSSAA 3 years ago. Fact: 2 college coaches in Tennessee told me directly that they could not get any feed back from Bray regarding 2 former players and they attempted many times. One of them was sitting in my living room discussing a player of mine for recruiting when this topic came up. Fact: when this mentioned coach approached one of the players, the player knew nothing of interest from the school. Fact: Roper, Ledbetter, Hill, Bates, Payne, Case, Henderson. All of these kids had serious interest from colleges. Some never received the information. All should have or should play college ball at some level and on a scholarship. Only Bates and Payne will do so. And in neither case will it be or was it because of any direct involvement from Bray. Richmond and Schrum both have outside shots at it at the right schools. In response to your comment about Cookeville having 7/10 type players, Fact: According to a rival website, only 5 teams in the entire state had two or more players on the same team ranked in the top 100 players in the state last season. Cookeville was one of those 5. Fact: Cookeville has been one of the largest schools in the state for years and top 3 for the last several years. They have plenty of talent to choose from. Period. Fact: they play in a very weak district. Aside from White County and now Stone. They should win that district routinely. Fact: while they have had some success, they have underachieved. 2012-2013 2 losses to a bad Cumberland Co team, one of which was in the district tourney. 2013-2014 2 losses to a less talented Clarkrange team. Fact: Numerous high school coaches from Cookeville to Johnson City, had Cookeville as the team to beat coming into the 2014-2015 season. This is not up for your debate. This was actual facts. Not opinions. Fact: I do this for a living. I have been at the high school and college levels in this state. I am fairly certain that I am a little more aware of what is being said from a collegiate level regarding Cookeville and the state for that matter. If you want to discuss opinions and gossip, which you seem interested in doing, I could do that as well. Like how the Carver kid was set to transfer to Jackson County also. In fact, it was nearly a done deal and being directly blamed on Bray, or how a set of parents directly caught Bray in a lie regarding a college coaches evaluation of their kid. Fact: Bray is not a bad man. He is not evil. He is just a coach that has lost his way and maybe even his love of the game and teaching. That is all.

I was made aware of this discussion this morning and felt the need to chime in on the subject. There are a lot of claims being made on both sides of this argument so I felt the need to weigh in from a coaching standpoint. Yes I am a basketball coach in Tennessee. It may be very un PC of me to do this but occasionally I get disgruntled at people who "know the real story". Cookeville High School is widely considered one of the most chronic underachieving teams throughout the state of Tennessee. When one of the "big boys" in the state want a win they know they can get, they schedule Cookeville. This is commonly accepted among coaches in the state. They know the team is likely to have several really good players on the team but that they will always find a way to lose the game, be it through coaching the majority of the time. Coach Bray will routinely "give up" if his teams fall behind and coaches know this. However, Cookeville does typically win 20 + games a year. AS THEY SHOULD! They also have approximately 15 automatic wins on the schedule every season. They perform well in the regular season and are guaranteed to fold in the post season. Two season ago, Cookeville had what was considered one of the best starting 5 units throughout the state of Tennessee. The Payne kid was their 5th starter for Christ sake! That team lost to Cumberland County twice that year! I remember speaking to a coach from the Chattanooga area and him saying " if I had 4 of those players, we could make a run at state"! I speak for a few college level coaches when I say that Coach Bray did nothing to assist a single player of his to get to the next level. The fact that the Roper and Ledbetter kids are not playing college basketball somewhere is an absolute and direct knock on him as a coach. I spoke with a college coach from the east Tennessee area and he told me he made several attempts to reach out regarding the Roper kid and never got a single response from the coach. There were 2 coaches from colleges in Kentucky that told me they inquired about Ledbetter only to be told not to waste their time because he did not want to play. If this was the case, it should have been left up to him and his family to pass that along instead of Coach Bray stopping the process in its tracks. Maybe 3 or 4 seasons ago, a team from the southeast part of the state simply refused to schedule his teams again when it was found out that he directly lied about transportation issues regarding getting his players to a game. I could say these things about a lot of coaches in the state. A lot of them are in the business for the wrong reasons. I am not saying Coach is a bad man but he routinely under performs, his players typically never go on to play at the next level, and where there is smoke, there will be fire. That many kids do not leave a program in one summer without cause. And there is very much some truth to the rumor surrounding the assistant that departed. While I cannot speak directly about a unwritten promise in place for him to take over or anything of that nature, I can speak with a great deal of certainty that there was something to that. Under Brays tenure there have been numerous players that should have moved on to college basketball. Roper, Ledbetter, Henderson (at some level), Hill should have received a scholarship instead of being a walk-on. The kid last year, Mason, was not his. He transferred in and the family was on top of things enough to make that happen. The Case kid from a couple years ago had some interest from a few schools but received no feedback from the coach when inquiries were made. I have heard some nightmare details about the Payne kid that left regarding coaching and lack of assistance. I can not for the life of me make sense of how you stand back and let Schrum brothers (that are solid and major contributors) just walk. Then you lose a back-up PG in Phillips, that should be garnering much more playing time, to a border county rival! Payne is a possible Division 1 player at the right school, matter of fact, I think he has division 1 offers. The younger Schrum brother is a naia player at the right school. It is just not a good situation. Then an assistant leaves. Look, that assistant will be the bigger man and handle it in a PC manner, but do not be blind to the mass of personnel they lost. That does not happen by accident or coincidence. It will be an intriguing season in Cookeville. I expect White County to RUN away with the district! Stone will be down considerably, Cookeville will be a shell of what could have been, and no other team in the district is worth mention. With Yoder, Simmons, and Payne gone, no one in that district will be able to contain Henderson. He will have a massive season. Sparkman was spot on regarding undefeated freshmen champs. This years team should have been one that made pushes and noise. Not now. Coach Bray will continue to misuse his players. He has a small pocket of talent left but it will likely be be wasted.