sx1234

14 hours ago, FormerMav said:

I reached out to a couple people I still know around the school. It's not good.  The club is picking and choosing who they want to work with and they think they're better than what they really are is what I'm being told.  I was more around the football program but know a couple kids on the wrestling team and a couple that graduate this year.  

People I spoke with are saying the same things.  Club atmoshere is not good.  Parents either don't know or are afraid to speak up.  

The irony in this.... and @TotallynotLEO can correct me if I am wrong...

A LOT of the success A.C. has achieved the last 3-5 years was a result of their kids being a part of the freestyle club(s) Sayne was a part of (Wolfpack, Crossroads, Tennessee Valley) 

12 hours ago, TotallynotLEO said:

AC, like many schools will be up and down depending on getting a couple good classes of kids.  They probably underperformed this season IMO.  

They will take a step back next year. They'll have 3 or 4 decent kids but that's about it.  

There are some major problems with the newly formed White Buffalo club team and HS booster club.  They've gotten very toxic very quickly and ran off long time supporters and people that were friendly to the high school program. Example- club coaches and adults should never tell kids to keep secrets or hide things from their parents. Specifically injuries. The supporters that got the program where it was the last 2 years are leaving.  Several kids are talking about transferring or quitting outright. The head coach is a very good man, Matt does very good but he's one guy.  Unfortunately he has no control over the club.

 

Gibbs and PF will be tops in region 2A. Probably Greeneville and PF next year out of sectionals.  

Greeneville is young and getting very good very fast. 

I hate to hear all of that.  What you guys have done out there and the growth of the program in just the last 4 or 5 years has been very impressive! 

2 minutes ago, BOUNCE said:

Sir I did respond to one of the points with a valid point and told what the good old TS.SAA ruled upon in the past.  Like always on here nobody is ever satisfied with anything they don't feel is right.  Fair enough to not agree but don't come on here and tell me how "I should respond".  You do know it's okay to not agree right?  The fact is that every year a small group comes on here to complain and throw rocks at glass houses....careful throwing rocks that you don't crash your own house down!  After next year someone is going to start another post bashing Cleveland....now that a fact.  Let's move along to one of the other very many accusations that were brought up.  

I'm not trying to bash Cleveland, I have no dog in the fight, but we need to call a spade a spade.  What happened is not right.  

If you are a Cleveland supporter, my heart would hurt for your kids that would have to forfeit in the state title.  IMO your girls would have won the title with or without the Oklahoma girls- but that detail does not matter.   If TSSAA does their job correctly, then the wins should be forfeited and eligibility for next year's post season should be suspended.  That's been the punishment for similar offenses, and only fair for what's happened now.

Again,  I really would hate that for Cleveland's girls because they have certainly done the hard work to earn a state title for themselves.  But sadly, kids are affected when adults make careless mistakes. 

2 minutes ago, NotJoeyB said:

Which is why I feel we deserve the TSSAA to do their due diligence here and investigate further. Someone BESIDES JOE BLAIR.

I agree with you that it needs to be investigated!   I have zero information about the Joe Blair person to have an opinion, but If he was the one that approved the transfers then I agree that he does not need to be on the team (multiple people) that do the deeper investigation.

3 minutes ago, BOUNCE said:

Read this......It's time to move along.  LET IT GO!  

Let blatant cheating in the state championship by our state's current flagship program go?   Absolutely not!

4 minutes ago, BOUNCE said:

LET IT GO!

And please learn how to respond to message boards before spamming with multiple short phrased comments such as this saying the same thing, and yet nothing at the exact same time.

35 minutes ago, NotJoeyB said:

Let’s say it is different sport

The TSSAA has ruled in the past that they are different sports, not saying we agree with that logic though.  Also,  that would be a very hard detail to prove under a real investigation.  I do agree with your sentiment, though, that even if they were able to say it was a different sport, there are still numerous other details that would make the transfer illegal.

Unless someone can breakdown every single infraction and articulate a reasonable justification for each (which I don't see how that's possible) Then arguing over a single detail of the transfer IMO is meaningless.  It'd be like committing grand theft auto and robbing a bank and then arguing that you were innocent because someone left their keys in the car and the bank vault was open when you got there.

21 minutes ago, KidGloves said:

Honest question - what’s the actual likelihood of that happening though? I ask that because I think we can all admit that there’s no shortage of false bravado on these boards. 

Also, who would have to file that case? West Creek? Have they (the school, not fans and parents) mentioned doing so? Or can anyone do so? I suppose in the land of frivolous lawsuits anyone can, but will anyone actually do so?

I just don’t see anything ever coming from it.

And lucky for us all, we crazy #### posters on this board aren’t judge, jury, nor executioner. 

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men"

-Plato

Personally I believe that a coach for Clarksville. West Creek, Maryville, Halls, Riverdale, Blackman, and Riverdale should ALL file a complaint.  As well as any team that competed in that Region's Dual Championship to qualify for state duals.  And I would go as far as to say it's a shame on them if they chose not to. 

There is clearly a laundry list of violations with this transfer.  The Cleveland faithful will come in arguing that TSSAA approved their eligibility before state duals- which I do not believe anyone is trying to say they didn't.  The issue is that the approval clearly never should have happened, and whoever did approve it should be held responsible for not doing their job. 

Keep in mind, only 1 of the several possible violations has to be true for the transfer to be ineligible, so please save us the responses of "They enrolled on the 18th school day of the semester, so we are innocent" (conveniently ignoring all the other points.

If I was guessing, I think the 2 infractions that are the most undeniable would be bona fide change of address (as the girls clearly moved back to Oklahoma and are living where they used to live) and previous athletic coaching link (as it is apparent common knowledge the girls did do something in the off-season with Cleveland connection involved).

If the TSSAA investigates, or chooses not to investigate this issue, and DOES NOT make them forfeit the wins, then it is very clear that there is a level of corruption within the TSSAA.  Additionally, because of how TSSAA has responded to similar situations in other sports, Cleveland should be ineligible for the state tournament for the next 1-3 years unless they do the right thing and admit their mistakes and forfeit this years title themselves. 

3 minutes ago, NotJoeyB said:

Great example: 4A football- one of the best teams in the state this year self-reported this season because they assumed they didn’t properly do paperwork on a transfer.. the transfer competed game 1.. TSSAA dropped game 1 to a loss.  

A few years ago a team in Knoxville played an ineligible player in mop-up duty of one of the last games of the season.   He was a JV caliber player, and got in when it was a running clock type of 2nd half.  Because of this, that team had to forfeit the game AND was ineligible for the playoffs.

A similar situation happened a couple of years ago and the the team was suspended from the playoffs for the next 3 seasons.  I believe that was initially the punishment with the first team I'm referencing too, but the coaches were able to appeal and pleaded their case and admitted their mistake of just putting in the entire JV at that point in the game.

39 minutes ago, Cmmndoalum said:

This is the bigger, REAL issue. Im not so much worried about this one specific occurrence, Im always glad when kids are able to compete.

My issue is If they did in fact recieve permission for what seems to be a VERY blantant violation of established rules the sport of wrestling in TN and its  governance has a massive problem.

Bingo! 

1 hour ago, Cmmndoalum said:

To be clear, i dont have any vested intrest in the outcome other than what is good for the sport of wrestling.

that being said their involvement in the tournament is at least problematic and at most unsportsmanlike.  The outcome makes NO difference.  
 

Try convincing the girls they beat that it was no bid deal or silly to be upset about it.  Imagine being the parent of one of the west creek, clarksville or maryville girls.

If TSSAA is allowing this maybe they will allow someone like Johnathan Knox JR to come down and compete for a Tennessee title after they are ruled ineligible for competition?

the mental gymnastics needed to turn a blind eye to this is impressive.

 

 100% Correct 

28 minutes ago, GrassmanCLEV said:

The outcome makes a huge difference. If the duels were close and this tipped the scales, there would be a lot more screaming about it. The fact that the duels weren't close casts doubt on the accusation that Cleveland brought in ringers to secure a win.

Regardless, their involvement being problematic depends largely on the details of their arrival and school enrollment. If they're just new girls in town and trying to catch the end of the season, it's a lot less problematic than if they're recruits brought in to boost the program. Was Bosken just helping them out or was he masterminding some sinister plot to keep Cleveland on top? The only reason you and others here are impressed by "mental gymnastics" is because you've already jumped to your own conclusions without much concern for actual evidence.

Also, i don't speak for other parents, but I can tell you that my daughter loves opportunities to go after highly-ranked opponents. Personally, I'd love if my daughter had the opportunity to challenge world team member without having to fly to another state.

100% Incorrect

It Doesn't matter if the girls won or lost their individual matches at all, or if the girls showed up to Cleveland on their own accord or not.... It is clear that they did not meet the requirements to be eligible to wrestle.  

Following precedents set by other sports playing ineligible players, the wins should be forfeited and Cleveland girls should be ineligible for post-season competition the next 1-3 seasons.   

That's always been the consequence for football teams playing ineligible players, why should wrestling be any different? 

This would only make sense to do if TSSAA did something crazy like seeded their state tournament solely off of the past year's state tournament placement. 

Just a week and a day after the state tournament, let the recruiting season begin.

On 2/17/2025 at 9:58 AM, sx1234 said:

Two guys from the Knoxville area that haven't shown up in rankings at all this Year are Dylan Rohn (Farragut 144) and Ahmed Shahin (West).  Rohn is from another state, his only losses on the year were in the finals of the Bradley Invitational to someone from another state, and to Sexton from Halls in the region finals (a loss he avenged in the Sectional FInals).  I am not sure where Shahin is from, I believe he is from another country and wrestled greco and freestyle most of his life.  Shahin's only loss was to Click from Sam Everrett in what I was told was his first ever folkstyle tournament.  He has been on a tear since, pinning everyone he's wrestled- most of which in the first 30 seconds of the match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUzgts9utNE

Placing 6th in state without fully knowing the rules of Folkstyle is both comical and impressive.  I hope this kid gets involved with freestyle and greco this spring. 

58 minutes ago, HTV said:

The T$$AA putting additional restrictions on them would lead to lawsuits that the T$$AA couldn't win

TSSAA does not put any restrictions on transfers at all.    Eligibility to compete in TSSAA sanctioned sports after the transfer is what is restricted.  These are not the same thing.  

I was told that last week TSSAA sent out a survey to all head coaches of every sport if they were in favor or against a 1 time transfer rule.

I highly doubt that they would publish the results, but I would absolutely love to see the results of that survey.  

60 thousand to 2 coaches?!?!?!

For comparison, the highest assistant coach stipend is about 400ish added to the monthly paycheck of a teacher that has a master's in education and 10+ years experience in both coaching and teaching.

Knox County has a policy that they must approve all booster club purchases- they would never approve that even if it was put in properly.  Secondly, they have a policy that booster clubs cannot pay assistants 

Who are some kids going into next weekend floating under the radar?  

Two guys from the Knoxville area that haven't shown up in rankings at all this Year are Dylan Rohn (Farragut 144) and Ahmed Shahin (West).  Rohn is from another state, his only losses on the year were in the finals of the Bradley Invitational to someone from another state, and to Sexton from Halls in the region finals (a loss he avenged in the Sectional FInals).  I am not sure where Shahin is from, I believe he is from another country and wrestled greco and freestyle most of his life.  Shahin's only loss was to Click from Sam Everrett in what I was told was his first ever folkstyle tournament.  He has been on a tear since, pinning everyone he's wrestled- most of which in the first 30 seconds of the match.

Statistics Lesson:   Can you find the outlier

42 minutes ago, oridgecat said:

It's empty!  They are screwed.  I would be shocked if they even field a team next year, if TSSAA even allows them to field a team next year after the criminal investigation.   

TSSAA won't ever issue a death penalty, worst case scenario would be a post-season penalty that makes Clinton ineligible for the playoffs for a year or two (I believe 3 years is the most I have ever seen).  But TSSAA only does that in extremely rare circumstances.

On 3/2/2024 at 11:39 AM, wssm said:

And have you heard of my kid?

 

signed TreyB

That's a scary thought...

I assumed that person was a child this entire time. 

1 hour ago, KidGloves said:

darn straight 

Given the way it lines up, you may have as much as a 33% chance of getting Cleveland 1st round

So next year.... 

Top half:  Cleveland(1 seed), Brentwood (loses seed- opposite side of Summit), ? and ?

Bottom half: Halls (2 seed), Summit (3 seed), Bradley (opposite Cleveland), and  ?

and one of those question marks is going to be DB

38 minutes ago, WrestlingGod said:

I posted a video after state duals about the match between Posey and Yazdani that i put up on my youtube page ripped directly from the nfhs stream and it wasnt ever taken down. 

 

I took it down the other day for other reasons, but it wasnt ever blocked by anyone. 

You just didn't get caught.  

This is last years, but it hasn't changed in years....

https://cms-files.tssaa.org/documents/tssaa/media/MediaRegulations.pdf

I-B2:  "If a TSSAA state playoff event is selected for broadcast by a SBP School or the NFHS Network, no other entity will be allowed to broadcast the event via the Internet or television."

Also

I-D

"Any media entity or school that is not a member of the SBP wishing to Internet stream or tape delay television broadcast any football playoff games or sectional tournaments/games for all other sports must submit their request to the TSSAA in writing for that event. The request must be submitted at least three days prior to the event in question. This includes state championship events not covered by the NFHS Network. If approved, a fee will be negotiated."

No idea where kids will fall in their weight classes... Dual results is really the only thing to speculate.   

I know there was a big fuss about the brackets of state duals this year, what nobody is mentioning is the exact same thing is set up to happen next year.  Cleveland will be the 1 seed- obviously, and now Halls will be the 2 seed. 

Halls only loses a few starters and Maryville graduates several.  Nobody else in Region 2 is on that level, so Halls is a strong favorite to win their region.  In Region 1, DB will be in the conversation again- but they will avoid Halls in the sectional as they are both clear favorites to be no. 1's.  I am not sure what is happening at Science Hill, but they were wayyyy down this year (compared to their usual), and I don't  see them, Jeff co or Mo-west stepping up and knocking Halls out of the 2 seed.

Also, if Bradley makes it to state again- they will be opposite Cleveland.  So 3 of those bottom 4 slots of the bracket would be Halls, Bradley and whoever keeps their seed between Summit and Brentwood.

It has something to do with the rules of filming TSSAA post-season events, not the venue.   Diamond Clear media used to stream almost every high school football game in this area online- including the playoffs.  They got away with it for a year or two, then TSSAA found out and BAM- all taken down.