oceansize42

30 minutes ago, GruncleD said:

Who did Jakob beat?

Chase Walker 4-2 at 113 lbs on May 22, 2022 in Folkstyle at Southeast regionals. 

Stiles is tough but I don't see Mason Jakob struggling in this one.  Way way more experienced at the national level than Stiles.  However, with that said it is a rivalry dual and weird things happen in rivalry duals.  My picks:

55-17 in favor of DB but I'm not counting 106 as I don't know either of those kids. I'm assuming straight up but I doubt that happens but SH doesn't have many options from 113 to 152.  Beck could maybe drop to 52 to avoid Norman.  SH could bump Beck to 170, Tate to 195, and Medina to 220 to try and help their cause.

106 No idea 

113 DB Jakob vs Miller =  6 pts DB

120 SH Smalling vs Watterson =  5 pts SH

126 DB Norman 6 pts DB

132 DB Armstrong 6 pts DB

138 DB Tucker 6 pts DB

145 DB Mullins 6 pts DB

152 DB Zhang 4 pts DB

160 DB Norman vs Beck 6 pts DB

170 DB Dempsey 6 pts DB

182 DB Burke vs Tate = 3 pts DB

195 SH Medina vs Taylor = 6 pts SH

220 DB Crowder = 6 pts DB

285 SH Redford = 6 pts SH

D1 AA 113 looks off. I would go:

1. Jakob

2. Walker

3. Baltz (2-1 vs Creque)

4. Creque (1-2 vs Baltz, although Creque won the last one)

5. Miller (his wins aren't as quality as the others above). Miller gets Jakob possibly tomorrow if they wrestle straight up.  

6. Ferrer from Antioch (Has a win by fall over Graham)

6 hours ago, WrestlingGod said:

I agree Cleveland and Bradley 1 and 2. I don’t agree that every other team after that is murky. The next two are pretty obvious too. 

Agree on "pretty" obvious and I'll grant third is much clearer than it was a month ago (Summit).  If I had to rank DB in D1 AA right now I would place them 5th or 6th with as I said the "possibility" to finish in top 4.   As we all know team health plays a gigantic role at the end particularly given the time of year (regular flu, covid, weight management, nagging injuries, major injuries, etc.).  But facts are facts and the facts are that at this moment Summit has wrestled a very tough dual schedule.

Who do you see as the obvious 4th team?  Wilson Central or somebody else? 

1 minute ago, cougars130 said:

DB is ranked 8th in the coaches poll

Yes that is much much closer to reality.  I think Cleveland and Bradley have to be one and two and then things get mirky and will probably depend on who comes in most healthy.

DB had eight pins against Maryville.  I keep saying it (and I think most agree) but DB is real handful assuming they can stay healthy, nobody quits, etc. etc. etc.   I think they have a real shot at top 4.  

I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure how anyone could have looked at DBs roster and come to the conclusion SH or Maryville are better.  I have zero affiliation with DB and have said less than five words to any of their coaches in my life. 

I'm local. SH is absolutely positively no where close to top 10.  They barely (48-36) beat Jefferson County and if Jeff County had their normal 182 then it would have been dead bang even.  2 FFs from SH at 126 and 170 and two FFs from Jeff County so that was equal.   Small school Crockett beat Jeff County 48-26.  It would take a complete melt down by Dobyns Bennett to lose to SH.  Could that happen? Yep, but if Dobyns Bennett can't beat SH this year then they deserve what ever criticism is thrown their way.   

2 minutes ago, PurplePanther said:

Thanks for the update!  

170- Stacey from Green shill beat Gibbs and Ehrlich at Drennan this weekend.

i would love to see either D2 or p-f-p ranking.  HWT Parodi finished 7th behind D2 guys and a Paducah wrestler.

That is the problem with non-unified rankings with respect to public school.  Magness from small school split matches with Cy Fowler as another example.   I get why they split it as come states they can't wrestle but really does a disservice to the wrestlers in small school and since results are being tallied from tournaments it wouldn't be too much more to include D1 A.

Hunter Mason owns 145 (including private). 

Colin Dupill owns 152 (including private).  

Urohchuks everywhere in the mix at their respective weight classes.

Carson Dupill in the mix at the top for 113/120.

Heckert at 182 in the mix for second or third.

Incredible effort by Palmer.  Beats the 2 and 3 seeds to get there and now gets Daton Fix.  

Ranked third on Rank Wrestlers for 1A behind Caleb Uhorchuk and Andy Cable.  Pin-TN is only solid for the top guys as they are typically easy to identify beyond that it gets messy. 

Conversely, Rank gets messy for the top .5% because they travel and don't have many shared opponents with others in TN or don't wrestle much in TN.

42 minutes ago, MadHatter6 said:

For all the talk of Max Norman’s greatness we didn’t really see it this weekend, I would have expected a medal with who people say he is.

Max is doing great.  Racked up some big wins on nationally ranked opponents over the last year, collected some AA awards at Fargo in freestyle and greco, and won a state title as a freshman at 145.  Like any wrestler who is a sophomore he will have ups and downs.  Great competition at that tournament so stuff happens and he will learn.  Speaking about Max positively doesn't in any way diminish others accomplishments.  Summit kids and Mason Jakob were excellent and deserving of any and all praise.

Was having a conversation with another Dad via text and he raised some good points which everyone should be aware of.

Rank is a purely mathematical system.  Results produce rankings.  Better results produce better rankings.  

1. 5 star recruits that travel will not be ranked correctly in many cases. Why? They will have losses to a set of super good kids who the rest of the kids from TN will never see.  No shared opponents means weights cannot be applied appropriately.  So a TN kid with no losses will likely be ranked higher than the five star who lost to number five in the country.  
2. Rankings in the early part of the year are less reliable than the rankings after the mid-way point.

All this goes to say that truly elite kids who travel to the best tournaments our country offers will be short changed by the rankings system.  

This is why Hamm's rankings are necessary.  A human can apply common sense and see past the lack of shared opponents. 

This was a heck of thread bump considering the thread's nine years old. 

If I'm going to make a very early in the season prediction I'm going with Cleveland for both girls and boys in 1AA.   They have a lot but they work a lot and maximize all the potential they have.  I can't really argue it.  Like all sports there are ebbs and flows with respect to a program's dominance and one day the worm will turn but for now they are the out-work-everybody champs.   FYI: I have not the slightest affiliation with Cleveland.  

2 hours ago, cowcatcher said:

I see what you are saying, but I will say that I favor Hamm's rankings over the computer. College Football likely agrees with me choosing the CFP over the old BCS computer rankings. LOL. Hamm, please don't stop your rankings if you read this. I always look forward to your take!

I don't want Hamm to quit and I don't think anyone else does either.   Free is important to the kids and in the end that is all that matters. Plus like I said, Hamm's rankings gives the kids something to strive for and that is a good thing.  Particularly those that are in the 4-6 area for each weight class. I don't expect, and neither should anyone else, Hamm to be perfect because time is very expensive.

I'll say this about the algorithm, it does really really really good as the season goes along. It's weakness is of course early in the year but it does look to take into account the prior years outcomes.

Last year I monitored rank's list versus what actually went down and it was darn good.  Not only that but it removes any thoughts of favoritism particularly since quality wins are weighted as more important.   If coaches report scores, they get sucked into Rank and that is great.

Don't forget it also includes:

Dual match comparisons (you can select two or three teams and see every potential matchup within a weight).

State wide rankings

Big Wins

Top five in each weight class

Rankings by Grade 

1 hour ago, noonesfool said:

Still a great day for the Devil grapplers. Particularly Hunter coming back from surgery and rehab. 

100%.  Dupill has taken fourth, looks like they started the medal matches at 144.

Ugh.. three one point losses for the Greeneville guys in the semis.

Carson downed 2-1, Hunter and Colin lost 3-2.  Hopefully all rebound to get into the 3rd and 4th place match. 

Mason Jakob will be wrestling for 7th. 

Max loses to another senior who was the 9th seed and will not medal.

Desselle wrestling for 7th.  

@TNUSAWrestling  

Good suggestion by cbg to use rank wrestlers.

2 minutes ago, cougars130 said:

And it’s not a 1 stop shop because the coaches who show up to these tournaments for boys exposure don’t provide a girls wrestling team in college. 

You don’t have to like it. She, and her coaches, made their choice and that is good enough. 

6 minutes ago, noonesfool said:

The Beast of the East is one of the top boys tournaments in the Nation. Greeneville takes their top boys there (successfully) for National rankings and college exposure. They have started a girls tournament with the same purpose and intent. Ocean42 could give you probably a better answer.

You nailed it. The best exposure comes from wrestling the best kids and these large national tournaments gives coaches a sort of one stop shop. 

3 minutes ago, cougars130 said:

Not sure where you saw it because I can’t find it on track to look and see who she wrestled that would increase her current rank in TN. 

Girls beast of the east

9 minutes ago, cbg said:

Maybe this is something that Tennessee USA Wrestling could provide and publish weekly.  Rankings could be D1AA, D1A, D2 and a combined overall ranking 

Great idea.  If they could reach a deal where they pay a monthly fee that would allow them to publish the top 10 by weight and no other stats then I wouldn't think that would be too pricey.

2 minutes ago, cougars130 said:

Actually the rokfin it also just guess with that same algorithm it also may not pull every match from track the algorithm but it is a great little website that also does girls wrestling as well already 

It is an infinitely better and more accurate guess than coaches and parents.  

Perhaps there are more people than I think that don't know so for those... for boys the best ranking system by far is rank wrestlers on rokfin.  Why? It doesn't rely on parents and coaches reporting wins/losses to Hamm or Hamm scouring track for results.  Rank scrapes Track Wrestling and applies an algorithm to produce class rankings by divisions (A, AA, II) or across the whole state.    Of course it costs $15 bucks a month but you can use for the length of the season and cancel so $45 for an entire season.  Small price to pay for vastly superior rankings.  Plus you can see every kid's matches from across the state, the rankings of there opponents in the matches, their team, as well as big wins from across the states, set up dual match comparisons, etc., etc., etc.  Simply unbeatable.    I'm sure at some point rank will add girls but until then I guess those who care are stuck with parents/coaches.  Honestly it is so cheap for what it provides I can't imagine relying on individuals "best educated guess".

I think there is a need for "free" rankings as then the kids themselves can see a list and strive to get there but really, and with all due respect to those that produce them, they aren't that good, and I don't expect them to be as time isn't cheap.

2 hours ago, PurplePanther said:

@cougars130 where are you getting these rankings?  I am trying to find an updated one for boys and D2.

For boys the best ranking system by far is is rank wrestlers on rokfin.  Why? It doesn't rely on parents and coaches reporting wins/losses to Hamm or Hamm scouring track for results.  Rank scrapes Track Wrestling and applies an algorithm to produce class rankings by divisions (A, AA, II) or across the whole state.    Of course it costs $15 bucks a month but you can use for the length of the season and cancel so $45 for an entire season.  Small price to pay for vastly superior rankings.  Plus you can see every kid's matches from across the state, the rankings of there opponents in the matches, their team, as well as big wins from across the states, dual match comparisons, etc., etc., etc.  Simply unbeatable.    I'm sure at some point rank will add girls but until then I guess those who care are stuck with parents/coaches.  Honestly it is so cheap for what it provides I can't imagine relying on individuals "best educated guess".