FrecoFanatic

7 hours ago, LocalHero said:

TNWA has to be in the mix if you’re going k-12

Full of hammers. The only ones I know personally are Mason and Noah. I love those two kids. They are killers and great kids too. Good families. Garrett wrestled with our HS guys on a couple of dual teams in Iowa. He is awesome too.

6 hours ago, clevelanddad said:

That was my point from the beginning to have video review. And that will only happen if complaints are made. I think that is partly why we have a shortage on refs because some facilities have cameras and can review the call and refs don't like it when they're wrong

You could have made that point without attacking Josh. 

3 hours ago, desselle said:

Plus we get our 190 back. He got injured 2nd round at state duals. 

Going to be tough again next year for sure.

43 minutes ago, clevelanddad said:

Do you think something needs to be done about refs and their bad calls?

What can be done @clevelanddad? There is a massive shortage of officials now. What are you going to do brother? Suspend them? Fire them? Who do you get to replace them if that happens? There are good officials and there are bad officials, just like there are good coaches and bad coaches. What needs to happen is we have coaches challenges and video review. It is at every level from youth through the senior level. No reason we should not have it at the duals and traditional state tournaments.

1 hour ago, CarlSpackler88 said:

While not the TSSAA, my son lost a match last year and the opposing coach came up to our coach, Sean Russell after the match and said "Man I'm sorry. You guys got robbed and he should have won that match". Don Elsea was watching and literally told us the call was wrong. Sometimes, it is exactly what it is. Score more points and it won't be left up to the refs. 

I've seen those Cleveland coaches in action. They fight hard for their guys. heck, Matt High throws more bricks in freestyle than any coach in the country. HA! 

Lol, fair but I am justified right? My challenge win rate has to be over 90% @CarlSpackler88. Heck I even won the challenge when I accidentally hit that official with the brick at 14U duals a couple of years ago.

21 minutes ago, FargoStrut said:

IMO, Nolensville most likely wins their sectional and will take either Brentwood or Summit's spot at the state duals. You could make the argument they were the best (not by much) of the 3 this season but didnt wrestle well at a couple weights in their district duals. 

They looked very good at the traditional. They have some tough guys. Melzoni has done a good job.

6 minutes ago, WrestlingGod said:

No sir, Posey is a jr this year. 

 

But yeah like i said Cleveland is famous for reloading. I wasn't saying by any means Summit is near the level of being able to take them (if anything i thought this year was the only year they'd have a shot for the foreseeable future). Just replying to the ones who said they're losing a lot, pointing out that they're losing two seniors while Cleveland is set to lose more. 

Truth

5 minutes ago, clevelanddad said:

Have you ever heard of filing a complaint? No one wants to put the work in for that . If more people would complain something might be done about refs and their bad calls. My son wrestled for hcwc, middle and high school, so I know all y'all, never had a problem with any coaches. If this happened to my son would it have been handled the same way? Trust me I would have done what ever it took to find out if it was a bad call. So you are the idiot read the Tssaa complaint rules.                     #itiswhatitis 

Brother, there has been good and bad officiating in wrestling for the entirety of its history and always will be. The result can’t be changed after the fact so it does no good to complain about it after you state your case. It was stated and also turned over to our athletic director. After that, it’s out of the coaches and athletes control. The fact that you’re insinuating that we don’t care about our kids is my problem. Go and see who has lost the most amount of team points for disputing the officiating in matches. No one fights harder for their athletes than us. The call was not going to change, so you have two options: (1) spend your time and energy crying about it; or (2) spend your time and energy making sure the match is not that close next time.

37 minutes ago, WrestlingGod said:

 

I know i've been kinda homey for Summit this season and while yes they lose Little and Desselle they return 3 of their 5 (Leach, Little, and Savarino) finalists. Masi (4th), McKinney (3rd) and Posey (DNP but was ranked 2 most of the year) also return. 

 

I know Cleveland is famous for reloading, but they're losing more seniors from the state tourney this year than Summit. Plus Syzmborski is leaving too. 

I thought Posey was a senior? Also, we are returning 5 of our 7 state finalists and 7 of our 11 placers. Our freshman class this upcoming year is killer and all of the ones who make the lineup will contend for a state title next year, so I expect no drop off from this year even with Logan graduating and Lucas moving back to Indiana. Summitt will be good again for sure. I honestly don’t know much about what the other teams are getting back.

29 minutes ago, ObseverW said:

I distinctly stated Cleveland is a top 50 nationally school. Also head2head I have Cleveland pulling a very tight match out against Buford, Buford gets more pins for sure and Buford is strongest where Cleveland is weakest, so to beat out Cleveland Buford would have to win the 3 toss ups that I have. However it's very hard to use Individual tournament team scores as a basis on top teams. That's why Iowa doesn't do team scores at all, they say its because in an individual tournament teams don't matter because there's rarely head to head and in the end seeding comes into play more and not having full line-ups. Buford even if kids are sick or injured(which is why Pope didn't make the Knockout tourney) would send someone out to try and trim some points if it was head2head, at an individual tournament that was travel they wouldn't do the same thing. So, YES Cleveland had success this season in individual tournaments, but that's comparing apples to grapes when it comes to actual strength of a full team. I mean Bishop McCourt rarely wrestled individual tourneys with a full lineup, but they did when they got beat in state duals, so when looking at some of those tournaments like Powerade, Carnahan and Knockout even some of the other top 50 schools in the country didn't bring a full compliment of wrestlers, but when wrestling state team duals they had full 14.

I was specifically referring to the arguments FR was making and the criticism that we should not be considered a Fab 50 team by May Scouts. I have no problem with your arguments.

21 minutes ago, canthide said:

If my kid is the victim of a questionable call can I go to the table and "fight for him"?  

Absolutely @canthide. Just know that it will not do any good so “it is what it is.”

17 hours ago, ObseverW said:

South Dade NOR Buford had 14 wrestlers down at Knockout. Again individual tournaments are a joke to keep team scores at to begin with, however if everyone wants to keep bringing those up as a basis for beating a top 50 team you have to at least look at what happened.

 

So yeah maybe Cleveland head2head can win those matches(I actually have them winning 8 of 14 WC, but only winning 28-27 and I gave Cleveland 2 of the 3 tossups I had for them). So Cleveland might win but they also very well lose both matches to those 2 teams. As I said they are a top 50 team, but how far up is the real question because top 50 is still impressive. South Dade was missing a kid that was a state placer from the year before(and probably again this year since they wrestle states this weekend) and even with only 13 they still almost beat Cleveland(lost by 4.5 pts and lost 1 pt for unsportsmanlike). Buford lost to Camden this season in both duals and individuals, but Buford also was missing 5 wrestlers at Knockout. 3 of those were state placers and 1 was a defending state champion before getting to semis of state this year and got beat 9-8 while he was winning 7-3 going into the last period and gave up 2 sets of 2pt NF and a TD to get beat 9-8 and medically forfeited out of the tourney. I think Buford gets at least 3-4 pins and that keeps them close in a dual, however I also give Cleveland the win at 113 and that is a toss up since Walker beat him 3-1 at knockout and also gave them 126 with Bosken against K McCormack who wasnt at Knockout and placed 2nd in state like Bosken did. 

 

106-Matz               Cordero-          Cordero win by pin

113-DJ Clarke-2                    Walker-            Walker by dec   Walker won 3-1 last time               

120-Ibold-2                            Maughon          Ibold by dec

126-Keiron McCormack-2    Bosken              Bosken by dec      this is a toss up, McCormack wasn’t at knockout

132-McArthur-1                     Rice                  McArthur by pin  also not at knockout

138-Gorman-1                        Congdon          Gorman by pin      

144-Pope-6                             York                  Pope by pin  was defending state champ

150-Danielson-4                     Schuft             Danielson by dec    toss up here

157-C. McCormack-6            Cy Fowler        Cy Fowler by dec

165-Santee-1                         L Fowler            L Fowler by dec

175-Pope                               Harrold             Harrold by dec

190-McCloskey-3                  Szymborski       Szymborski by MD

215-Riner-1                            Moore               Riner by pin

285-Butler-6                           Russel               Russel by dec

That was exactly my point. We COULD win 7 or more matches against them, so saying we don’t belong seems a little unjustified. I honestly don’t know why anyone feels the need to even say we don’t belong in the first place. Those rankings are simply Mat Scout’s opinion. Our state is getting recognized in a good way by outside observers and people just want to respond by saying “Cleveland is not really a Fab 50 team.” Why not just say good for Cleveland and good for our state @FR615? And before you start talking about hurt feelings, go back and read some of the posts you made after Father Ryan got dropped by McCallie.

8 hours ago, clevelanddad said:

My point exactly all about winning . That wasn't the point I was making it was about the childish it is what it is

You clearly no nothing about the sport of wrestling or TSSAA. There is no procedure for overturning the call, there is no protest, there is no video review. Josh went to the head table and fought for his kid. So yeah, “it is was what it is.” It is certainly not “all about winning” for Josh or Joey. They treat all these kids like their own and are deeply invested in their lives. Josh is a fantastic man and father. People like you sit in the stands and have ZERO understanding of the nature of what we do and what coaches put into these kids. That same man you are criticizing from your golden throne had his kid up early the day after state and training to start doing something about not leaving it in the officials hands next year. Those moments Zac experienced are part of the journey and we view them as opportunities to get tougher. It’s ironic that you are criticizing other people’s comprehension and seem to have none. Here is some free advice, next time you want to publicly criticize how a man parents his son, think twice so you don’t sound like an idiot.

2 hours ago, bigwilly24 said:

Let’s see what everyone is thinking for the future 

Post what your thinking.

13 minutes ago, BobCorker said:

Rumor has it that a merge between Boom Ranch and Cleveland is happening.  Apparently the Boom Ranch staff will be named recruiting coordinators as Cleveland looks to upend Wyoming Seminary next year.  Sounds like they have a big pickup from Texas moving in! 

Boom Ranch does not have a staff. Shane is the Boom Ranch coach and he is too busy making boats to recruit.

38 minutes ago, ObseverW said:

what would those results be nationally as a team that show you all belong? I didnt see any dual results against a top 50 team in the country and individual tournaments for the most part arent looked at for top 50 team placement because 3-4 top wrestlers can carry a team in a individual tournament while true strength is shown in both your varsity AND your JV depth. Now I have no issues saying to me Cleveland is a top 50 program 100%. Now where they actually land within that top 50 is anyone's guess. I think 42-46 is probably about it but for now that is better than any other TN team is doing.

Fair question @ObserverW. We finished higher than South Dade and Buford at Knockout at 7 weight classes. That means it is reasonable to believe we COULD win seven matches against both of them. If we can win seven matches, we can possibly win the dual. Does not mean we would, but it does mean that we COULD beat at least two teams in the Fab 50.

7 hours ago, FR615 said:

I respect your opinion and takes but CBG is one of the lifers on this board and coached. Sure powerade and  that Indiana tourney were tough but no where near the toughest competition in the country in terms of teams. You would not have beaten a top 50 team.

So because he coached wrestling and has been on Coach T for life means if he says it, then it must be true? Well I coach wrestling, specifically the kids he is talking about, I have traveled all over the country and seen the other Fab 50 teams and feel pretty good that we could beat at least one or two of them in a dual. The guy who does the Fab 50 is pretty knowledgeable about High School Wrestling in this country and he seems to think we deserve to be recognized in the rankings as well. But let me defer to @cbg since you have told me no one knows more about wrestling and the Fab 50 teams. He has such an expansive knowledge of all of those teams and their rosters that he knows we would not beat a single one of the them in a dual, so thank you for clearing that up.

2 hours ago, cbg said:

Cleveland is a good team for Tennessee and even the Southeast but they are far from being a national level team.  Personally I don’t know of a single team in the Top 50 nationally that they could beat.  

Better yet, go ahead do a match by match hypothetical against #41 - 50. Enlighten us with your knowledge of Fab 50 teams and all the kids on their rosters.

2 hours ago, cbg said:

Cleveland is a good team for Tennessee and even the Southeast but they are far from being a national level team.  Personally I don’t know of a single team in the Top 50 nationally that they could beat.  

That’s because without looking you could not name 5 teams in the Top 50 not named Wyoming Seminary or Blair Academy. Our results at the national level would say otherwise. 

2 hours ago, Rasslinking said:

Buzz kill haha

 bunch of killers!!!!

Lol. I had to. Ha.

The adults can have at it on this one. I love all these guys. Here is how much they care about this question before opinions start flying on here. These guys are all good friends and they train and travel together all the time. They don’t care about “who is best.” We could probably learn a lesson or two from these boys. #TNWrestling #OneWrestlingFamily #BestSportEver

21 minutes ago, ObseverW said:

I’ve not know many kids that read this forum, usually they have better ways to spend their time! Also being loyal is the same as being thin skinned! Lighten up and quit being so crabby about ANY single kid that wrestles on Cleveland being told they would get beat by someone! It’s not like someone came on here and said Russell sucks, they didn’t at all, they just think Gentle is a better wrestler and don’t think Russell would have a chance against him! I mean I’m pretty sure everyone would have said the same with Lee and Ramos last year, I’d almost guarantee you would have given him no chance, Lee had beaten Ramos previously! It did happen and Ramos got the pin, but no one gave him a chance to do so.

I definitely thought Ramos had a chance. Ramos threw Spencer Lee to his back in the previous match and had him in real danger of getting pinned. He was an age group world medalist too. I certainly thought Spencer Lee would win, but I definitely thought Ramos could beat him. When someone is really good, they always have a chance. Go watch Ahkmed Tazhudinov take out Kyle Snyder and Sadulaev at the World Championships this year.  

33 minutes ago, ObseverW said:

Not good on a message board either, you going to end up with a heart attack as you take this WAY to seriously and you sure don't like opinions that do not agree with yours!  

I will happily die on the hill of loyalty. I had no problem with that guy yesterday believing Gentle would win, it was saying Tyson had zero chance and using nasty language and dirty jokes on a forum that kids read and also prohibits that crap that fired me up. I honestly don’t care what people think, the only opinions that matter to me are God’s, my family, and my team. People like @CarlSpackler88 who know me will tell you I love wrestling and want TN to be the best wrestling state in the country. They will also tell you that I treat every wrestler with respect and nothing fires me up more than someone not giving the respect that is due to these kids. He will tell you he has seen me go to war for Cleveland kids, McCallie kids, and every other kid in our state too. We should be passionate about what we think or message boards like these would be boring. If we all agreed there would be nothing to read. That being said, there is a way to go about debating those views and a way not to go about it. I appreciate you looking out for my mental and physical health. Ha.

1 hour ago, ObseverW said:

You seem a little thin skinned to me, so message boards might not be for you!  Don't think anyone said anything about Russell not being a good wrestler, what some people including me think though, is that I don't think he is the caliber of wrestler that Gentle has become. Also last year's results have no bearing on this year's wrestling or people wouldn't even wrestle the matches!  So maybe not having a chance is a little bit harsh for you, but that is the opinion of me and a few others on this board but I promise it is not everyone's opinion and that is fair. As far as good heavy, they probably will have Cooper up there next year, he is not even close to the caliber of his brother but maybe he grows into a great heavyweight also and becomes as good a football player as Carson is and joins the whole line of amazing heavyweights that TN has put out that ended up as great football players at the next level! 

People that know me will tell you I am far from thin skinned. I just have way more loyalty than I do patience.

3 hours ago, Rasslinking said:

#1) Gentile is good.

But how in the world is a kid that has NEVER made the State Finals (3rd last year losing to a FC kid) so unbeatable?
 

A realization of who Carson is?? Ha are you serious?

Whats his best win?

You dont think Tyson has competed against great athletes?

 

#2) Its crazy how confident a man can become once his son taste "a little" success. You have become quite embarassing on here, knowing who you are. If that dual happens, I have a good idea who they are putting High on. 

 

@CarlSpackler88 is a good man and Coop is a great kid and a warrior who deserves respect because he has earned it. Mattox High will NOT be “put” on anyone because of disagreement about who would win between two kids. If he earns a spot in the lineup, he will wrestle whoever McCallie sends to the line. He will also humbly respect that kid as a warrior and a wrestler because that is how he has been raised. Carl is entitled to his opinion and he is respectful in giving it, unlike other goofballs on here.