Shot Clock

[larry]

First of all it would speed most games up significantly. This may be fan friendly at first but with good coaching and kids being patient some less talented teams have a legitimate shot at upsets. With the shot clock in place there would be many more lopsided games. If you make the shot clock mandatory you make the coach less significant, especially to those schools who are not blessed with great athletes. Also, the player who understands basketball well and is not that great an athlete becomes less important. I for one oppose any suggestion of a shot clock. Being from the Upper Cumberland where we are not blessed with a benchful of great athletes I like to see the coach have a shot at controlling tempo and playing those bigger schools the way he/she wants to. Finally, I believe kids that understand how to play both slow and fast ultimately make better basketball players than those who just play fast, like streetball.

Good post.

 

Why does the high school game need to be like the college game or, heaven-forbid, AAU? What is wrong with a little strategy if that is what it takes for a team to have a chance to win? If you want to be entertained go to a movie.

[jimbo44]

The shot clock in AAU gives coaches at the next level an idea of how a kid performs in that environment. It has nothing to do with Federation Basketball.

[kbc00]

dont like it. dont like the 3 pointer either. coaches live and die by the three. the teams that win the state have a stong inside game

[philtenn]

Good post.

 

Why does the high school game need to be like the college game or, heaven-forbid, AAU? What is wrong with a little strategy if that is what it takes for a team to have a chance to win? If you want to be entertained go to a movie.

No disrespect to larry, mrbasketball, or jimbo44, but I don't see the merit of your anti-shot clock argument. Correct me if I'm wrong because maybe I'm missing the point, but are you saying that the shot clock should not be implemented because teams in Cumberland would be at a disadvantage or because "less talented teams" (I guess this means less athletic) would be hurt? That's it?

 

larry made some passing remark about strategy. I'd like to hear more about that. Also, if his problem with AAU is due to the shot clock, I'd like to hear more about that.

 

But the deal with the "less talented teams" - I'm sorry, I don't see the point. I guess, if you're right, I would feel sorry for the "less talented teams" (of which my daughter's team might be one by the way depending on what that term means) but I don't see how that possible fact has anything to do with a rule that would apply to everybody.

[mrbasketball]

No disrespect to larry, mrbasketball, or jimbo44, but I don't see the merit of your anti-shot clock argument. Correct me if I'm wrong because maybe I'm missing the point, but are you saying that the shot clock should not be implemented because teams in Cumberland would be at a disadvantage or because "less talented teams" (I guess this means less athletic) would be hurt? That's it?

 

larry made some passing remark about strategy. I'd like to hear more about that. Also, if his problem with AAU is due to the shot clock, I'd like to hear more about that.

 

But the deal with the "less talented teams" - I'm sorry, I don't see the point. I guess, if you're right, I would feel sorry for the "less talented teams" (of which my daughter's team might be one by the way depending on what that term means) but I don't see how that possible fact has anything to do with a rule that would apply to everybody.

basically heres my points: 1.)with a shot clock the coach is much less of a factor 2.) teams that don't have very many athletic kids, boys way more than girls, have a much better chance of winning versus teams that are athletic. thus, the lack of a shot clock can be a great equalizing factor. 3.) some teams just can't run up and down the court and shoot right away and play good, thus my streetball comment.

[14pioneers]

No disrespect to larry, mrbasketball, or jimbo44, but I don't see the merit of your anti-shot clock argument. Correct me if I'm wrong because maybe I'm missing the point, but are you saying that the shot clock should not be implemented because teams in Cumberland would be at a disadvantage or because "less talented teams" (I guess this means less athletic) would be hurt? That's it?

 

larry made some passing remark about strategy. I'd like to hear more about that. Also, if his problem with AAU is due to the shot clock, I'd like to hear more about that.

 

But the deal with the "less talented teams" - I'm sorry, I don't see the point. I guess, if you're right, I would feel sorry for the "less talented teams" (of which my daughter's team might be one by the way depending on what that term means) but I don't see how that possible fact has anything to do with a rule that would apply to everybody.

The "less talented teams" who do not have the atheletes in a given year to run and gun with the more talented teams at least have the opportunity now to take time off the clock on each possession,if they choose. Play ball control maybe get the more talented opponent in foul trouble, and sit on the lead. Don't get me wrong ,I don't like this style of play either but in a lot of cases this will be the only way a team can stay competitive. Look at Dean Smith when he coached at North Carolina. He had plenty of talent and was famous for his 4 corner offense.

[jimbo44]

No disrespect to larry, mrbasketball, or jimbo44, but I don't see the merit of your anti-shot clock argument. Correct me if I'm wrong because maybe I'm missing the point, but are you saying that the shot clock should not be implemented because teams in Cumberland would be at a disadvantage or because "less talented teams" (I guess this means less athletic) would be hurt? That's it?

larry made some passing remark about strategy. I'd like to hear more about that. Also, if his problem with AAU is due to the shot clock, I'd like to hear more about that.

But the deal with the "less talented teams" - I'm sorry, I don't see the point. I guess, if you're right, I would feel sorry for the "less talented teams" (of which my daughter's team might be one by the way depending on what that term means) but I don't see how that possible fact has anything to do with a rule that would apply to everybody.

My post about: Smartball vs Streetball is the point. If all you want is lots of points scored, go to a NBA game. If you are a Basketball purist, leave the Federation rules alone.

[philtenn]

basically heres my points: 1.)with a shot clock the coach is much less of a factor 2.) teams that don't have very many athletic kids, boys way more than girls, have a much better chance of winning versus teams that are athletic. thus, the lack of a shot clock can be a great equalizing factor. 3.) some teams just can't run up and down the court and shoot right away and play good, thus my streetball comment.

Again, please feel free if I'm misunderstanding you. This is not a personal issue with me.

 

Here are my responses:

1) That's a bad thing? It seems to me that the ultimate reason for high school basketball is the development of the girls (but you may not agree). Ultimately, the coach should be letting the girls make more of the decisions on the court. Making decisions under pressure is a very important life skill. Having a shot clock forces the girls to make decisions on their own and under time pressure.

2) I don't believe that not having a shot clock is a "great" equalizing factor. At best, it's a minor equalizing factor if at all. Given two teams with the same amount of basketball skill and knowledge and one is more athletic than the other, the more athletic team will almost always win. A less athletic team with a slow down offense may pull off an upset (and usually it's called that when the team running the slow down offense wins) every so often but if you don't have the athletes, you don't have the athletes and you will tend to lose shot clock or no.

3) Don't understand this comment. Are you saying that some teams can't play faster paced basketball and win? I thought the whole point of competition and having championships was to see who was best, not to make sure everybody could win? In fact, I guess that's impossible in competition, because somebody's got to lose. In my opinion, just because some teams won't do well (personally, I don't believe that would be a permanent condition) is not a reason to not put the shot clock rule in.

[philtenn]

My post about: Smartball vs Streetball is the point. If all you want is lots of points scored, go to a NBA game. If you are a Basketball purist, leave the Federation rules alone.

 

Surely you're not blaming the problems that the NBA has on the shot clock. There are a ton of other factors involved there - the most important being that nobody believes in defense. The NBA game is the last style of basketball I'd ever watch. It's terrible. But it has nothing to do with the shot clock. Give me a game at girls AAU Nationals anytime. Or a good womens college basketball game. AAU and the college game both have shot clocks. Are you telling me that the only kind of basketball you enjoy is watching slow non-athletic girls running the four-corner? I don't think so. But, tell me if I'm wrong. To each their own.

Edited January 2, 2007 by philtenn

[mrbasketball]

Surely you're not blaming the problems that the NBA has on the shot clock. There are a ton of other factors involved there - the most important being that nobody believes in defense. The NBA game is the last style of basketball I'd ever watch. It's terrible. But it has nothing to do with the shot clock. Give me a game at girls AAU Nationals anytime. Or a good womens college basketball game. AAU and the college game both have shot clocks. Are you telling me that the only kind of basketball you enjoy is watching slow non-athletic girls running the four-corner? I don't think so. But, tell me if I'm wrong. To each their own.

like you said to each his own. however, i would much rather watch a good tn boys high school game than to watch an NBA game myself. one of the biggest reasons i even posted was because some said it would make the game more fun to watch. my response is if you like more blowouts than this would be true. also, i guarantee you that a shot clock would make some teams non competitive year in and year out just because they don't have good athletes. again i'm pretty sure this areas boys teams can't and would not compete as well with the athletes that are in inner city schools if the shot clock is installed. of course there are exceptions but there are always exceptions. i just believe that the shot clock will make kids forget about many of the fundamentals of the game and the way it was designed to be played. in addition, i see way to many games now where teams come down and chunk it up as quickly as possible and play little defense. is this what we want to teach our kids? i think not. i will teach mine that it is a team game and good teams are smart and play good defense. i will not teach them to chuck it up as quick as they touch the ball. i would much rather they learn to value each possesion and frustrate other teams by being patient. thats just me and i don't have to be correct but i believe most would think i am.

[midtnbb]

How many seconds are you suggesting that team be given to shoot the ball?

[philtenn]

like you said to each his own. however, i would much rather watch a good tn boys high school game than to watch an NBA game myself. one of the biggest reasons i even posted was because some said it would make the game more fun to watch. my response is if you like more blowouts than this would be true. also, i guarantee you that a shot clock would make some teams non competitive year in and year out just because they don't have good athletes. again i'm pretty sure this areas boys teams can't and would not compete as well with the athletes that are in inner city schools if the shot clock is installed. of course there are exceptions but there are always exceptions. i just believe that the shot clock will make kids forget about many of the fundamentals of the game and the way it was designed to be played. in addition, i see way to many games now where teams come down and chunk it up as quickly as possible and play little defense. is this what we want to teach our kids? i think not. i will teach mine that it is a team game and good teams are smart and play good defense. i will not teach them to chuck it up as quick as they touch the ball. i would much rather they learn to value each possesion and frustrate other teams by being patient. thats just me and i don't have to be correct but i believe most would think i am.

mrbasketball: I do appreciate your comments and I can see where some areas may have difficulty coming up with strong athletes. Maybe what needs to be done is to have different leagues with different rules so that the girls in the less athletic areas (can't think of a better term) can still enjoy basketball.

 

I don't agree that the shot clock automatically leads to chucking up the ball as soon as you touch it. Watch the good womens college basketball games or even better watch the good AAU Nationals games. There's a lot of strategy and the top teams will get clock violation turnovers because of their defense. My daughter's AAU team is not populated with superstar athletes and they sure don't run and gun, but they ended up doing well last year at Nationals because they played like a team. It takes good coaching. The coach can't be lazy and just rely on athleticism to carry the day. They actually have to teach. Too often, though, on the very athletic teams the coach lets the players get away with poor fundamentals just because they can get away with it given the level of athlete they face.

Edited January 2, 2007 by philtenn