smwwrest

Pretty funny that you are arguing with Maj...he's generally a D1 guy, but has significant knowledge and experience with these matches and is calling them straight.

Again, congrats to all of the wrestlers that earned State Championships today! Facts to chew on... Newburg lost to Duncan this year. Newburg continues to improve, but Duncan is clearly the wrestler to beat at 160. Maryland was obviously very impressed with Duncan. Smith beats Holloway? Hollaway has already beaten Smith twice this year. Big win tonight for Smith to avenge his earlier loss to Dalrymple, but he has not done this yet with losses to Holloway. Lewis - has never beaten Manley that I am aware of. Earlier in the year, Lewis lost to D2 3rd placer Matt Johnson (125 lbs) as well as to Marvin Lopez, who also lost to Manley. Have to give the edge to Manley on this one. Hats off to Lewis after slow start, having a very strong finish. Brown lost to Hooker last year...clearly Brown is improved, but so has Hooker. Maybe not a major this year, but the odds still strongly favor Hooker. Schay was majored by Martino earlier in the year. He probably makes it closer, but Martino still the favorite. Schay showed tremendous heart finishing the finals match with a hurt leg tonight. Schay also has close losses to D2 second placer Rupiper in his career which add to support that Martino would be the favorite.

D2 is a clear winner this year based on prior matches and other information.

First congrats to everyone that won a TN State Championships today!!! An incredible accomplishment that you will take with you for the rest of your life! This annual post attempts to look at the facts and select the winners considering prior match results, common opponents and other tangible support: 103 Holloway vs. Smith - this match has already occured this year both were decisions by Holloway 3-0 D2 112 Tate Robinson vs. Stevens - but hard to argue against nationally ranked Robinson, this match hasn't happened yet 6-0 D2 119 Brunner vs Bates - Brunner was a D1 state champ last year, but had some questionable losses during season 6-3 D2 125 Watson vs. Fuerbacher - Fuerbacher had a great stste tournament with OT win over Oliver. However, loss earlier in year to Mosely D2 runner up at 130lbs. Watson has never lost in TN, no reason to think he would in this one. 10-3 D2 130 Manley vs. Lewis - Manley hols two common opponent wins over Lewis. Lewis had losses this year to Matt Johnson (3rd place D2 125) and Marvon Lopez. 13-3 D2 135 Baker vs. Lopez - Baker has a common opponent win over Marvin with Baker's win over Manley and Manley's win over Marvin. Likely a close match, but using the only available facts. 16-3 D2 140 Doster vs. A. Lopez - One of my favorite D1 wrestlers, Aaron is going to continue to be fun too watch for the next 2 years. This match already happened this year with Doster winning a decision. 19-3 D2 145 Hooker vs Brown no real common opponents. Only way to judge this based on their records and dominance. Hooker ended the year undefeated and arguably wrestled tougher opponents (e.g. Collins Hill, Brandon Florida). Only about 10 people (out of about 50 opponents) actually lasted to the end of the match with Hooker rhis year. 22-3 D2 152 Agnew vs. Colbaugh - difficult to find common opponents, overall Colbaugh appears to have had a more impressive year with fewer losses. D2 22-6 160 Duncan vs. Newberg - this one already occurred with Duncan winning by a decision. The match was closer than expected. D2 25-9 171 Martino vs. Schay - This is another match which already occurred this year with Martino winning convincingly. This was a major decision for Martino D2 29-9 189 TJ Holmes vs. Davis - Originally, my thought was this match would go fairly easily to Davis, but after looking at the scores against common opponents all year long (and there were several, including Soddy Daisy and Cleveland), this one is very close. I will give it to Davis, but D2 fans will have something to argue about. D2 29-12 215 Mason vs. Bolton - Bolton has common opponent wins over Swanson and Snyder. This is likely a major for D1. D2 29-16 285 Gouger vs. Benson - No real common opponents, both with good season records. Benson had more match time and experience, so the nod has to go his direction, though D2 guys again could complain. Let me know if you have additional results that could change the above analysis i.e. missed a significant common opponent or head to head match up. Really no justifiable debate over 103, 130, 140, 160 and 171. These matches occurred during this past year which is the closest insight into how these matches would occur and who would prevail. Common opponents supporting 130, 135 and 215. I don't think many would argue the results above at 112, 125, 145, 152, and 215 given the dominance of these wrestlers. 119, 189 and HWT are the most even and arguable weight classes. This year D2 appears to have a significant edge in terms of the champions. That said, the 2nd placers and lower appeared to have a drop off at a number of weight classes. There will be a large number of the big names that will graduate in D2, so next year's analysis should be very interesting.

Join the forum and then within 59 minutes make this post. Wow, wonder if you have an axe to grind? Collierville placed 4th in the Division 1 state dual tournament last year. They were the 4th best team among all of the public schools in the state in 2010. Even by New York Yankee standards, you're a bit premature in attacking the program as having declined over a several year period. Name the last time the Collierville wrestling team placed 4th in State? They also had a state finalist in the individual tournament. Kent Johnson is the only other finalist from Collierville that I can name, though somebody may remember others?

Yeah, that ghouse is always stating facts instead of letting us wallow in our ignorance! I hate that!

I'll jump in on this one. You are selling a TN State Championship too short. Having had a son that competed and placed nationally in middle school, then worked his butt off to win one state title in TN, I know personally how difficult this is. So do the Jaekel's, Millers, Simpsons, Boones and many others. There are also guys that have just won one and could not get a second. Our number one guys in each weight class that actually win state (not second or third) are consistently very good or great wrestlers. Also don't pump those other states more than they deserve. A great example, Jake Marlin, freshman state champion last year from Iowa. He placed 9th in a bracket last year won by one of our West TN kids, then he wins Iowa state? Many states (for example AL, GA and MO) have more classifications than TN watering down their talent. A title in TN is meaningful and consistently (with few exceptions) equates to a very good wrestler.

Not sure what is meant by the above...add Soddy and Parkland and that's 7 very strong teams that were scheduled to be at this tournament. As it turned out there were at least 5 very good teams, including Science Hill. That makes it one of the best in TN...with the 7 teams, there are likely just a few TN tournaments that could be arguably as tough....McCallie..maybe Bradley Central?

Yes, Kingston was there last year. Some good individuals...a little rough on the team side, 13 out of 16. That's top of the bottom quartile.

Actually the Ducks and TCU declared their seasons a disaster, threw away their trophies and gave back their bowl money because they did not earn it and took a greyhound bus back home. All in all the whole national championship experience was terrible for the Ducks, it was "like kissing their sister" really? Being a Vols fan, I know they would have liked to have "been in the conversation" this year or would love to be next year.

CBHS always sits most, if not all, their varsity wrestlers when returning from Hawai. Most of the guys out on Saturday were either injured, sick or getting a much needed rest. Talking with the parents and wrestlers the trip was incredible (as always), a once in a lifetime experience. The team also wrestled well, placing second and losing a close match to the number one rated team in the islands, Punahou. Some cool information on Punahou, Barak Obama attended the high school and they have been ranked the #1 sports high school in America (2008 Sports Illustrated and another website). Almost a full team should be back in action this weekend for the Science Hill tournament, though one senior is still recovering from a hand injury sustained at the Cleveland duals. With Baylor and Father Ryan attending as well as a couple of the top teams from NC, the Fandetti Brawl should be a tough go.

"I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there"

Lol..I guess that result is like "kissing your sister".

"Being in the conversation" or "being in the hunt" may be a great year for a team or individual depending on the situation. I don't buy the mentality if you don't win it all, then its "like kissing your sister" which is what you said. The examples provided are in line with your statements. You were giving no credit to a team that might be over acheiving in a rebuilding year....they can't be satisfied with not winning it all or just being in the hunt. Any team that doesn't win it is disappointed, but it can still be a very successful season.

No, feelings hurt here, but I definitely disagree with that mentality. As a coach, I have seen many a kid ruined by this way of thinking. Its the parent that makes his son throw away his Fargo medal away because its third place and not first place. Third at many team or individual tournaments may be a great accomplishment for some programs. Its saying that the Greenback Nation cannot be proud of their accomplishments, producing state individual champions, making the small school duals, placing 3rd at the duals, etc. because they did not win the duals? You may be sitting on the top of the world 100 percent of the time, but for those programs working to get to the top, they should be able to celebrate steps along the way.

When you lose 6 seniors to graduation and three are wrestling in the NCAA Div 1, sometimes being in the conversation is a great year. Again, your thinking is screwed up. Glad I am not in your program. You are either a Bradley Central fan or your team is a failure because they don't win it every year. Ultimately, its that kind of thinking that drives kids from the sport. Cleveland has had their "rebuilding" years as well, where being in the conversation would have been a step up. I guess the TSSAA should just quit giving medals to guys that placed and did not win it??? Or just one trophy at the duals?? No, they give two trophies to recognize the 2nd place teams achievement. They even have a third place match...those teams should just head on home? What a stupid point of view.....bottom line, you were taking a shot and can't back it up with anything intelligent. Maybe next time...

PRT iii, Good perspective--Father Ryan won the tournament this weekend. Congrats to you guys--your team earned it! I think everyone in DII will need to step it up to compete with the red and blue teams from Chatt by the end of the season.

Think about that...if you don't win it all then you should just be miserable. I guess Cleveland High School should feel like last year was a complete loss. If Oregon or Auburn loses tonight, I guess there season was a disaster. Every school that did not win the high school state wrestling championship last year or is just in the hunt this year, but don't win, should feel like they kissed their sister? That's completely stupid!!! As I heard once at the Wrestling Hall of Fame banquet from the great Coach Jordan at Clarksville, wrestling is not about how high you go, but how far you have come. Some schools or wrestlers may not ever win it all due to a number of factors, but to say they have not been very successful is missing it badly.

Yeah, I would have sour grapes too if CBHS 1/2 JV squad had just kicked my team's rear end...lol. CBHS is working hard to earn the first state team championship from the West side of the state ever. It may not be this year, but at least for the second year in a row, they are in the conversation. Given the number of freshman and sophs in the lineup, expect them to continue to be in the hunt. Great job by Coach Lewis and the CBHS staff! Your efforts are greatly appreciated. Also great work by the Brothers fans, if others are noticing you and this bothered by your presence. An outstanding program that was supposed to be down this year after losing three state champs (and now NCAA D1 wrestlers) as well as a runner up and three more state placers. Keep it up!!! GO BROTHERS!

Yes, I may have missed this one given the recent result. D2 3 D1 0

Congratulations to Jeremy!!!

Last year's class of National Placers and ranked wrestlers included Croy, Thomas and Baucke.

Ugh! Go back to last years threads....in the February timeframe for a match vs. match analysis. smwwrest Posted 21 February 2010 - 02:39 PM First, CONGRATS TO ALL OF THIS YEAR'S CHAMPIONS (D1 and D2). All of these guys had their dreams realized yesterday evening and deserve a lot of credit and admiration for what they worked very hard to accomplish. This should be a great debate this year...obviously with this many talented wrestlers it really comes down to who performs on a given day and match. Here's how I see it...if you have other information (facts) that I am missing or should be considered, please chime in. 103 Brunner (Tull) vs. Akers (Ryan) Brunner dec Akers No head to head Maybe an a major for Brunner Brunner was a tremendous middle school wrestler that has continue to progress with Coach Bray. Akers discipline to stay at 103 this year was incredible. Few in D2 this past summer projected a Father Ryan state championship at 103. Team Score: D1 3 D2 0 112 Thomas (Bw) vs. Ward (Mc) Thomas maj. over Ward Thomas is ranked 5th is the country by Intermat wrestling. Not much more you can say. Great year, starting with the Fargo run! Ward - a great win over Mosely. Clearly the stronger wrestler in the 3rd period and overtime. Team Score: D1 7 D2 0 119 Hames (Brad) vs. Watson (Bay) Watson dec Hames Watson has one loss in high school. Hard to not make comparisons with other great Baylor alumni (i.e. Leen, Manson and others). Hanes returned to the top stand as a junior. He also won as a freshman. Team Score: D1 7 D2 3 125 Lewis (SD) vs. Manley (Bay) Manley dec. over Lewis Probably one of the tougher matches to call. If these guys have wrestled head to head or have a good common opponent, let me know. Would be a fun match. Manley won the SE Prep slam. Beat Marvin Lopez the D1 state champ at 130 in the state freestyle tournament last summer. Campbell Lewis is a great kid and wrestlers. Campbell was injured to start the year, very little data to find common opponents. Team Score: D1 7 D2 6 130 Lopez (Cleve) vs. Baucke (CBHS) Baucke maj dec. this one occurred at the Cleveland duals (10-0) Baucke Baucke is rated 12th in the country by Intermat at 130 lbs. That said, Lopez is a great wrestler. He was a terrible referees call away from being an All American at Fargo this past summer. It will likely be hard to find anyone that can beat him next year. Team Score: D1 7 D2 10 135 Herron (Brad) vs. Johnson (CBHS) Johnson dec over Herron Johnson's win over Hooker was impressive. The 135 lb D2 bracket had 3 former state champions in it. Herron has really impressed as a wrestler over the past year, including strong showings a the TN State freestyle tournament and the SE USA regional. Team Score: D1 7 D2 13 140 Chege (Rw) vs. Doster (Bay) Doster dec over Chege Doster is a more accomplished wrestler (now a three time state champion) which is why I give him the nod in this one. Chege's state championship was probably no surprise to the Ravenwood faithful, but likely was one of the bigger upset/underdog finishes in this state tournament. Some D2 fans may argue for a major dec. Team Score: D1 7 D2 16 145 Cox (Ind) vs. Johnson (CBHS), team score 7-19 Johnson dec over Cox This choice will probably raise some debate and rightfully so. Good match...the smaller Johnson twin beat Cox 7-4 last year Johnson came through a very tough D2 bracket at 145. Cox beating a past state champion in the finals of D1 was impressive. He has a common opponent this year with Johnson in Agnew of Father Ryan. Cox won 8-3 and Johnson was 1-1. The records show that Cox also had a loss in January 5-1 to Zach Bennett of Franklin. Team Score: D1 7 D2 19 152 Aguilar (Brad) vs. Duncan (Mc) Duncan dec over Aguilar Duncan continues to dominate the competition. Only losses this year were to Luster ranked in the top 10 in the country by Intermat. Also a close match to Todd, the 160 lbs state champion from D2. Aguilar had a huge senior year being undefeated and claiming the D1 title at 152. He had two close wins in the semis and finals over Newberg of Indy and Lilly of Collierville, respectively. Newberg and Lilly placed 4th and 5th at the Father Ryan tournament in a bracket the TJ Duncan won easily (all pins and an injury default). Newberg was majored by Downs, who was majored by Duncan in the D2 finals. There will likely be some upset D1 fans, but the nod here has to go to Duncan. The common opponents would say this should be a major, but given these are champs, stick with the decision. Team Score: D1 7 D2 22 160 Jones (Cleve) vs. Todd (MBA) Todd dec. Jones Todd was one of the more impressive and under heralded D2 seniors this year. A great wrestler that makes few mistakes. Todd won a close match 5-2 over Martino in the D2 finals. Martino is a common opponent for Jones. Martino pinned Jones in the 2nd period earlier in the year. Common opponent would say this could be more than a decision. Jones is a great story winning the D1 state title as a senior after not getting carried his junior year. One more argument for why the D1 state needs to go to a traditional consolation round! Team Score: D1 7 D2 25 171 Proctor (Cville) vs.Wesley (Ryan) Proctor dec. over Wesley This is the most difficult of all the matches to choose and will rightfully so get some argument from the D2 fans. Both are multiple time state champions (Proctor 2x and Wesley 3x). Both did not lose to anyone this year in the state of TN. Both pretty much pinned or tech'd anyone brave enough to step on the mat with them. Proctor won the D1 state tournament in 3OT, but arguably with tougher competition. Wesley won a 5-1 decision in the finals. Team Score: D1 10 D2 25 189 Kennedy (Black) vs. Ferguson (Bay) Kennedy dec over Ferguson Kennedy is the more accomplished wrestler winning titles outside of TN. He also had an impressive undefeated record this season. There were a couple of close wins over non-state placers during the season that were surprising. Ferguson finished a great season with a close 1-0 decision in the D2 finals. Ferguson lost a match late in the season to Tyler Toon the D1 3rd placed finisher. Team Score: D1 13 D2 25 215 Croy (Bw) vs. Helton (Bay) Croy maj dec over Helton Cameron Croy is a beast! No other way to say it. Multiple time Fargo All American, ranked 13th in the country by Intermat. OW of the D1 tournament. Helton had an impressive 8-2 win in the D2 finals and as a junior should likely be back on top the podium next year. Some D1 fans might call for another point on this one, but Croy won 3 of his 5 matches at State by points. Not as much a pinner, but Croy can beat anyone (no matter what State) with his quickness and leg attacks. Team Score: D1 17 D2 25 HWT Allen (Mt. J) vs. Mackey (Bay) Allen major dec over Mackey Allen man handled the competition this year and was very impressive through out the entire season and D1 state tournament. Mackey is also very physical, though undersized for this match. Mackey wrestled at 215 for the earlier part of the season. Again, some D1 fans might argue for more here, but Mackey similar to the Greenback wrestler in the finals should be able to keep this to a major. Team Score: D1 21 D2 25 FINAL SCORE: D2 defeats D1 25-21. If you turn around a few of the matches (Lewis, Herron and Cox) that the D1 fans could reasonably argue go the other way the score would be D1 with the win 30-16. If you turn around the Wesley match to appease the D2 fans the score would be 28-18 D2 over D1. In summary, another great year of TN wrestling with the Division champions evenly matched depending on the color of your glasses. Congrats to those that ran this year's State tournament. Overall a great experience

Sorry to upset, but Jeremy after a short visit back is still attending high school in DE. Just got off the phone with his Dad. Best of luck to Jeremy through the end of the season and school year!

Actually the match was very close...add 30 seconds to the clock and Johnson probably wins. If you have watched the Johnson's in the past, they own the third period and Matt certainly did in this match. Austin is a great wrestler and has a bright future...props to him for the win!