Empro

I agree that the 215 quarters match was the most exciting of the tournament. The reason that Westside thought he'd won the match was that the official awarded two winning takedowns then changed his mind AFTER the calls were made and points were awarded. Cleveland made two offensive moves the entire match and Westside over fifteen, but the ref saw fit to award a penalty point against Westside with five seconds remaining in regulation. That point sent the match into OT. Then, Westside locked up a nearside cradle. The ref awarded two points, Westside saw this, dropped Cleveland and began to celebrate, and then the ref changed his mind saying there was never really control. Westside eventually chose down in 2OT and escaped immediately. This was one of the most impressive feats of concentration and determination I've ever seen. Does ayone else have a comment on this match? The 103, 119, and 275 DI finals were also awesome, as was the 145 DII and 171 DII finals.

Scott Wells did not win any titles in PA. In fact, I don't believe he ever placed (maybe a fifth, actually) although he did qualify once. (If anyone is positive please correct me.) Also he did win 3 cadet national titles (2 FS, 1GR), and one 3rd place (FS). I have heard that Simpson tried to wrestle Keller to no avail. Anyway, they are both excellent, excellent wrestlers, but neither was the national presence of Scott Wells. Not even close, really, although Simpson was a HS national runner-up and Keller finished 3rd. Wells was trained in the PA elite youth programs and had the talent to compete at the highest (i.e. Olympic) level. I hope Simpson places this year and that Keller has a successful career at Nebraska.

Dear Coach Logsdon, Thank you very much for your reply to my previous inquiry. As you indicated, I had asked an honest question four times (although I disagree that it was arrogant to do so, since nobody was addressing the issue I raised), and I appreciate finally receiving a response. I did not know the answer to the question I posed, as I indicated with the statement, "I may be wrong..." I also indicated that I am pro-Bradley, which I am. I have the utmost respect for your accomplishments as a coach, and more important, by all accounts you seem like an honorable man as well. I follow your out of town results with keen interest and am proud of TN when you do well. You have been excellent ambassadors for our state. Obviously I touched a sensitive nerve as you replied to my posts but have ignored so many others and as you chose to respond to someone "hiding behind a keyboard." Actually, I never really considered that my identity was important as I thought I posted on issues that speak for themselves, certainly not to make personal attacks. I take your violation of your "general rule not to debate" with folks such as myself (i.e. people who would prefer to avoid being labeled for their opinions, especially when I believe that the sharing of these opinions related to wrestling issues is a good thing) to be a significant compliment that most clearly speaks to the reasonable nature of my inquiries, even if they differed from your own. Reasonable men can disagree. I can appreciate your frustration with my anonymous posting. But as you appeared to take personal issue with me, I will remain so as on the few occasions that we have met we have gotten on well and I would like to be able to learn from you in the future. I do not appreciate your personal attacks and insuation about my character and motivations, especially as I went out of my way not to post negative personal statements about you or anyone else for that matter. Did I ever even mention you by name, or state anything resembling "The Bradley head coach"? I haven't checked but doubt it. Frankly, I am not interested at all in the personalities involved, including yours, just the wrestling and related issues. As this has clearly been an ongoing and frustrating ordeal for you and as you have (understandably) confused the (somewhat) objective with the personal , I see no reason to press the issue further. Thank you again for doing what nobody else had been willing or able to do, to provide some simple facts about the history of the excellent Bradley program. As someone relatively new to the state, asking is the only way that I know of for me to find out information. I encourage you to read any of the few posts I have made again and to inspect for any inconsistency in my position. I have even posted that in many ways I can understand not wanting to wrestle DII schools-- clearly you would make a shrewd businessman. Anyway, I have not reread my posts but am certain that the sentiments I have expressed in this post can be found in the others as well. I will not post on the specific issue of Bradley Central wrestling DII schools again. I hope you do well this weekend. [Edited by Empro on 2-10-03 9:31P]

What About Bradley? Why do all the Bradley posters ignore this issue? For the FOURTH time in this thread: I have asked for a tally of how many wrestlers at BCHS transferred/were recruited into the program from feeder schools other than Bradley's, and each pro-Bradley poster has completely ignored this most crucial question. (Actually I am pro-Bradley, have no inside scoop there, though, and just vehemently disagree on this issue.) If the reason they don't compete is "recruiting," then let'sget their own recruiting on the table. MAYBE I'm mistaken, but I'd sure appreciate the facts.

Bayou Bear, I agree that to a large extent this is a DI vs DII issue and that Bradley, as the top dog, takes the brunt of the heat. But you exaggerate Bradley's willingness to wrestle DII schools-- they kicked Baylor out of their tournament and backed out of the ??? tournament when they heard DII schools would be there (memory fails me. It was 2 seasons ago. Anyone?). I invited them to a tournament I ran, which wascertainly the most unique and one og the most competitive tournaments ever held in the state, and they were very interested when they heard about the out of state teams but said "Sorry" as soon as they heard DII schools would be there. Simple reason given: "We don't wrestle DII schools." More important, this is the third time I have asked for a tally of how many wrestlers at BCHS transferred/were recruited into the program from feeder schools other than Bradley's, and each pro-Bradley poster has completely ignored this most crucial question. (Actually I am pro-Bradley, have no inside scoop there, though, and just vehemently disagree on this issue.) If the reason they don't compete is "recruiting," then let'sget their own recruiting on the table. MAYBE I'm mistaken, but I'd sure appreciate the facts.

The issue is not a one-time fundraiser dual meet. the issue, in my opinion, is initiating a rivalry that has so much energy behind it that the whole state will benefit. This would be a high-profile dual meet. Or make it a quad with someone's picks for the top four teams in the area or state, regardless of division. (Or 2 from each. In recent years, that would have been a good divider.) similar to the NWCA HS duals. Do or do not include the TSSAA-- if they object, tough, no rules violations in scheduling, and if they're smart (highly unlikely, except if they realize that marketedcorrectly, they could make some $) let them help promote it. [Edited by Empro on 2-10-03 12:09A]

Hanson, Please keep posting with all bark and no bite-- or sense. In your last post, you do a good job of 1. Name-calling (I mentioned noone by name, mind), and 2. insulting high school underclassmen athletes. Two further points: 1. Don't worry-- I'm not mistaking Bradley for top 25 material. McCallie is the only team in the state to ever hold that honor as they were ranked as high as 6th in the early 90s. BUT BCHS has been the most consistently strong program in the state for the past few years (since the TSSAA administered the "death penalty" to McCallie), and it would be nice for them to lay it on the line. 2. Notably, you chose not to respond to the issue of Bradley wrestlers transferring/being recruited from feeder schools other than Bradley's. Please, please, keep up your posting. You make the task of arguing for your idiocy and immaturity completely unneccessary. [Edited by Empro on 2-8-03 3:56P] [Edited by Empro on 2-8-03 3:57P]

BayouBear, That was a pretty pathetic post. McCallie hungers for the best competition, and Bradley enjoys its trophies. Of course Bradley would like to be left alone, and probably to pretend they are the undisputed champions as well. Tough. Also, I'd never heard of the proposed match re: McCallie non-FA wrestlers competing against Bradley's whole team, but that sounds a bit absurd to me-- punishing certain McCallie wrestlers because they cannot afford to pay the high McCallie tuition. Even so, just to be fair, how about the McCallie non-aid wrestlers wrestle the a team composed of only those Bradley wrestlers who came through a Bradley feeder program and did not enter/transfer/were not recruited to come to BCHS only after they were successful junior high wrestlers? That sounds like more of a sporting contest-- and certainly would do a more equitable job of eliminating Bradley's said concern of recruiting. It makes me sick that so many Division I people (not only Bradley, mind) would rather be one of many champions than risk not being the only true Champion.

Gordon Connell is, in my opinion, the best HS coach in Tennessee-- and there are numerous great HS coaches here. Coach Connell knows more technical wrestling than almost any coach alive-- and that is not hyperbole. His assistant, Mike Newman, is himself incredibly well-schooled. Steve Henry and Frank and Pat Simpson, all coached by Coach Connell, represent their mentor well. (What a coaching staff at McCallie with Coaches Blair and Killian!) It seems DII has a disproportionate number of top coaches-- which likely accounts for their RELATIVE (ie by the numbers) success over DI schools. (But isn't this the case in every sport, where DII wins on kids and coaching but still gets banned from tournaments?) Coaches Connell and Morgan are both former DI head coaches and Pat and Frank Simpson produce tough wrestlers year in and year out. MBA wasn't half as tough before Frank arrived. Logsdon obviously does a great job with his kids, but what is more impressive is his political saavy. He won't wrestle DII schools because he complains they recruit, yet how many Bradley kids were recruited from Red Bank or other schools? WAY more than have ever been recruited to a single DII school. And I don't say these things as insults, either-- I mean them as compliments, sort of. If you want to win, he is good at it. I'm not sure what I'd do if I were in his shoes-- by wrestling DII schools, he has nothing to gain but pride and everything to lose. He seems to choose in a calculated manner-- this way his kids can be recruited as undefeated state champions and he is known as a dominant coach. Even as good as Bradley has gotten, they are not nearly as good as McCallie was 8-9 years ago, when they were ranked as high as FIFTH in the nation and won state titles back to back (both dual and individual) for four years in a row before the school's athletics teams were placed on probation. And that was when there was ONE tournament (McCallie would always wrestle ALL comers) and before the TSSAA attempted to neuter them by banning them from state competition for four (correct me if it was less) years. Even with Bradley's recent dominance of Division I, those McCallie teams were far and away superior. I, for one, hope they resume that former dominance. Wouldn't it be great for the state? Al Miller knows his stuff as does Brad Jackson. Joe Blair seems to be a hustler and Hill is working hard and doing the right things to build a program. I cannot speak directly to his knowledge but have heard that it is not as impressive as his commitment to building a program-- which most people would probably find more attractive than the other way around anyway. Clearly coaches in West TN are way behind the rest of the state. But Walt Holmes had a good deal of success when he was coaching the tough kids from Kirby, and Tony Bradley's teams were 2nd or 3rd back in the early 90s. From West TN, those feats are quite impressive. And that's the ramble from a relative newcomer.

tnmat, I must disagree with you on Jordan. Gifted athlete? Yes. Quick on his feet? Yes. Tougher than he was gifted? Not in a million years. Did he ever wrestle a match without taking two injury timeouts? He was lazy and imo, taking blatant lung discomfort timeouts is a far greater reason to be left off the toughman list than crying. Also, Scott Wells used to pin people so quickly we never got a chance to see how mean or tough he was. He was the best wrestler in the state of TN since I moved here seven years ago-- and I have an incredible amount of respect for Simpson and Keller and others, too. But none were Scott Wells. In PA, where he was from, his coaches (who coached numerous state champs and All-Americans) used to bet that he would make the Olympic team. That is how much talent he had.

Not being a native from TN, I'm unfamiliar with many of the names mentioned. But I do recognize most from the last 5-6 years, and it seems some posters are too generous with their label of toughest ever. Simpson and Keller are both deserving, and I am sure are several others. Winning the toughman as a HS student is quite impressive. That being said, nbody's mentioned Markese Nelson. I heard he was a terror. I will let someone who saw him wrestle recount some of the tales about him that I have heard second hand.

I was at the Midlands and saw McCarty wrestle. He is good and may well develop into a very successful college wrestler. But to say, "Unless you compete in the Big Ten don't talk" is a somewhat foolish way to try to belittle Phillip's accomplishments. Phillip only had TWO unavenged losses last year, to the top ranked wrestler in Division I and to MN. The EIWA is a tough conference in itself. Not the Big Ten but right behind the Big 10 and Big 12. Second, Phillip finished 37-8 as a TRUE freshman last year, missing PLACING at the NCAAs on a questionable non-call at the last second against a Big 10 senior returning AA. So, I think Phillip will continue to do just fine against the Big 10, as other posters have indicated. Matt has not excelled in open tournaments, YET, with his best finish I believe is 5th at the Michigan State Open or E Mich Open, I don't remember which. This may be outdated, so someone please update. I don't want to knock either young man; both are doing extremely well and are having more success than I had at that level. However, I think that not acknowledging Phillip as the superior wrestler of the state in the past decade or longer is a bit myopic. I also think Keller and Blackmon are in the same league. Anyway, McCarty and Simpson are different wrestlers. McCarty does wrestle more of a punishing style, while Phillip, quite physical himself, is one of the most technical wrestlers in the NCAA right now. Other than Jantzen, he is the premier pinner in college, IMO. Most important, let's hope that both guys maintain championship ATTITUDES and find a bit of luck if they need that, too. If I had to bet, I'd bet Phillip has a better chance of high AA finishes, but let's hope both continue to represent themselves and TN well.