Empro

I believe you are incorrect. He placed 8th at 143 if I am not mistaken. Which, of course, I may be.

New Jersey is ahead of NY in terms of d I success. But NY wrestlers are tough, and it is one of the toughest states to win as only 1 qualifies from each section. 2nd best guy in state can (and often does, especially from D 9 on LI), miss the tourney.

I was unaware of all those results. My impression was that KJ was superior FS compared to folkstyle. We'll never know... one of TN's best either way. Are you sure Leen placed at Juniors?

KJ is a beast, but I don't think top 3. On his best day he would have placed AA, but not on an off day.

Sorry. Dunning is a tough kid and after a season or two with their schedules would be competitive. Those kids wrestle 30 or more matches a season at a level where Dunning gets 3-4 if he is lucky. I hope Dunning catches fire at the Sr Nationals, though.

Whit would get smoked. If he wrestled very, very well, he could keep it to a minor.

Borneman will be lucky not to get majored or worse. Mark my words. Last time they wrestled, Marable had been to only a handful of practcices and was in football shape. Borneman is not in his league. Period.

In looking at the D2 arnkings, I will guarantee that MUS does not place nearly as well as they are ranked.

This is largely directed at IrishDad, but is open to others' comments as well. Three of the officials on that list are excellent, consistent refs. Your comments are totally out of line. Kenny and the Markings are solid, and, as I said, consistent. There is no bias. UNLIKE your own home cooked refs, with their legendary, unparalelled favoritism and whom I have watched anabashedly favor Ryan, MBA, and the Simpsons in particular, like the time Spencer Manley pinned P Simpson in the state semis at Ryan, when Manley was a freshman, and J Hudgens stopped it for NON-EXISTENT blood. Simpson came back to win, if course, and every year there are calls like this in Ryan's own tournament. The Markings don't play favorites and are easy to discuss with. Kenny calls as consistent as they come as maintains excellent control of the mats. Your comments are off base, and you are being a sore loser. Get over it.

The sport of wrestling extends back far beyond 700 B.C. Drawings in the tombs of Beni Hasan and also in caves in Southern Russian predate the borth of Christ by at least 3000 years. Many of the moves captured in these drawings are still used today. Wrestling is also the ondest sport captured in literature, in the epic of Gilgamesh and also is one of the only 2 sports mentioned in the Old Testament. If you're a hs student, get to your library and learn something about man's greatest tradition!

Pardon me. My instruction to you should have been "read and comprehend my post; it is written in clear language." And please identify any implications I made about ethics. Do you know what ethics are?

"yeah, walkenvol is a P.O.S. because he has issue with a McCallie idol. How dare him question something that he feels strongly about. What a cad! Surely, his love for the sport can not contend with that of a coach, no way! Walkenvol, please turn in your singlet and headgear, and join the football guys." 1. What is POS? 2. Read my post, idiot. I made no personal attack, only an observation. Obviously walkenvol cares about wrestling, and I thanked him for that and his work.

Soms, I second your support wholeheartedly. Every time Coach Connell is bashed... If we could all be as lucky to be guided by GC. This is a man with not only honorable intentions and passion but a virtually unparalled knowledge of and love for our great sport, and a great track record of success. I hope the athlete in question from last year's team goes on to great success and a wonderful life. I will certainly follow his career with interest. But the father who continues to blame the coach, especially in the context of our sport's preaching personal responsibility, may be setting the worst example possible. I wonder what would have been possible if in Dec 03 or whenever a weight decision was made, all parties modeled an attitutde of, "Well, this isn't what we'd hoped for, but it's what we've got, so let's get cracking to make sure we do our best and win another championship at any weight." I intend no personal insult to any family, but by making your issues public on this forum you have presented them as fair topics for discussion. I support Coach Connell as he has certainly earned the benfit of the doubt and did not deserve the treatment he received, but my comments on this issue are impartial. In other words, EVEN IF the coach made an egregious error, what sealed the deal was, it seems to me, the reaction of the other parties. EVEN IF the decision was unjust, the response was not one of positive outlook and perseverance at all costs; it was one of blame and, ultimately, frustration and loss. That is the entire message wrestling teaches. Please continue to do all you do for our great sport, and thank you for helping our state's youth.

I never saw Sweeton wrestle much so I can't say. I do know that the list I compiled is very competitive, with wrestlers like Dunning and Cordell not making the list. Remember that each of those athletes won 3 state championships, a supreme feat.

Brewster is Tier 2 with Dunning and Cordell.

Top 4 private (no order) Gordon Connell (McC) Pat Simpson (FR) Frank Simpson (MBA) Jim Morgan (Baylor) Top 4 public (no order) Steve Logsdon(BC) Steve Henry(SD) Brad Jackson (ER) Science Hill coach knows what he's doing, too. Top 6 overall (no order) Gordon Connell (McC) Pat Simpson (FR) Frank Simpson (MBA) Jim Morgan (Baylor) Steve Logsdon(BC) Steve Henry(SD)

Since the split, the matches would probably be about even. The first few years, DII would have been slightly favored, other years DI.

CoachDelgado, thanks for info. Notice change above. James manhandled Cordell. I'd place Cordell with Dunning on Tier 2.

Dunning was tough, but I stand by my list. He'd be in my next tier. If that is Hayduk from Notre Dame, based on the dozen or so times I saw him wrestle, including a state title, he is definately not on my list. Probably 4th tier.

Thanks for the correction on Eslinger. I hadn't moved to TN yet. Scott Wells won the Greco Cadets 2x and the FS Cadets once. He was also 3rd in the Cadet FS once. I make this comment with the utmost respect for both Phillip Simpson and Matt Keller: Scott Wells had-- even with wrestling as a distant second sport to football on his priority list-- something none of the others did. In Pennsylvania, where he grew up before he moved to TN as a HS junior (he never placed in PA but I leblieve he did qualify for states once), he was touted at Foxcather and elsewhere as the next Olympic Heavyweight Champion. Just an FYI. Regardless, everyone on that list is one tough ######. By my own standard, I could have placed Wells #1, but 4x state titles and NCAA success won out. Toughts on my list?

Top 6, in order, with HS (and FS/GR) as major criteria, with college as additional consideration: 1. Phillip Simpson- 4x state champion, HS National Runner-Up, 2x NCAA qualifier, NCAA 3rd 2. Matt Keller- 4x state champion, Senior National All-American, currently top-20 NCAA Division I 3. Scott Wells- 2x state champion and OW, 3x Cadet National Champion, 1x Cadet National 3rd 4. Heath Eslinger- 2x state champion, NCAA qualifier, Midlands 5th 4. Markese Nelson- 2x state champion, Cadet National 3rd, Military Natl Champion, NCAA qualifier 6. Charles McTorry- 2x (?) state champion, TN's 1st HS National Champion, 2x NCAA Qualifier Others, some too early to tell, in no order Waylon Lowe Matt McCarty JT Hagen Jake Yost Rusty Blackmon Kevin Ward Quinn Gibson Ryan Scott Jordan Leen Patrick Simpson Nick Marable Kyle James

Spencer has placed 3 times heading into his senior year: 3-1-1. Obviously a talented athlete with DI aspirations and an outstanding academic record to boot. Plus, a gentleman. With Leen in position to win a 4th state title, it's worth noting... That as a freshman Spencer actually pinned Patrick Simpson in the semi-finals. Yes, I know he lost the match, but anyone who watched the match saw Spencer catch Simspon on his back, step over into a TIGHT bodylock position with 1:00 (a full minute or more) on the clock, only to have the match stopped by some Nashville home-cookin officiating. Simpson, who was a better wrestler at the time, came back to beat Manley in a close match. But it was clear what really happened. What's done is done, but as Manley's now a senior, it's worth mentioning we could have had another 4-timer. Best of luck to all this weekend.

PUMMELKING: THIS WILL BE MY LAST POST ON THIS THREAD. YOU ATTACKED COACHBRAY BY QUESTIONING HIS KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WRESTLING. YOUR POSTS HAVE NO CLEAR POINT AND ARE MOSTLY NONSENSICAL. The ref was picked by the state office so he must have been recognized as an outstanding official. OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE SELECTION OF OFFICIALS IN THIS STATE. DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE POSTING ERRONEOUS INFORMATION. Besides the kid must have not been that good of a wrestler because I recall him loseing 3 matches in the same fashion, being on top and loseing control of the bottom wreslter in the tie breaker. WHAT IS YOUR POINT HERE? SEVERAL MISTAKES AGAIN. WOW, IF YOU ARE THE KNOWLEDGEABLE ONE, THE REST OF US MUST REALLY BE HURTING. YOU CLAIM THAT YOU SAW BONHAM LOSE THREE RIDEOUT MATCHES. I FEEL LIKE A BROKEN RECORD. DO SOME HOMEWORK. BONHAM PLACED FIFTH. THAT MEANS HE ONLY LOST TWICE (ONCE TO EVANS AND ONCE TO FARRAGUT.) IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT YOU SAW HIM LOSE THREE MATCHES. NEXT MISTAKE: "NOT THAT GOOD." FIRST, WHAT THE HECK IS YOUR POINT HERE? YOU STARTED OUT BY ARGUING THAT IT IS OK FOR A "COUNTER-WRESTLER TO LET HIS OPPONENT DO ALL THE HARD WORK AND THEN SCORE OFF HIS OPPONENT'S MISTAKE." NOW YOU'RE CLAIMING BONHAM ISN'T THAT GOOD? PLEASE EDUCATE ME ON THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THESE THOUGHTS. REGARDLESS OF YOUR NONSENSICAL, INCOHERENT TRAIN OF THOUGHT, LET'S LOOK AT YOUR COMMENT. "NOT THAT GOOD." NUMBER ONE RANKED ALL YEAR AND RETURNING STATE RUNNER-UP. NUMBER ONE SEED IN THE STATE TOURNAMENT. HUH? In regards to the wrestlers waiting on their opponent, no that is not passivity or stalling. WRONG AGAIN. FOR SOMEONE WHO PRESUMES AND BOASTS OF KNOWING SO MUCH, YOU'RE NOT DOING SO HOT. ONCE AGAIN, DO YOUR HOMEWORK. START WITH READING THE RULE BOOK. WRESTLERS MUST CONSTANTLY WORK TO IMPROVE THEIR POSITIONS. IF WAITING IS NOT STALLING, THEN WHAT IS? All officials should only use 3 words when talking to wrestlers: Action, Center and Open. These should never be followed by colors because that could be considered as coaching and refs. are not supposed to do that. I AGREE WITH THIS, BUT AGAIN, WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING IN THIS THREAD? REVIEW SOME BASIC THOUGHT AND COMPOSITION STRATEGIES BEFORE YOU PRESENT YOURSELF AS SOMEONE WHO CAN TELL OTHERS THEY NEED TO LEARN A LOT MORE ABOUT WRESTLING.

Bonham had his shot; Evans' margin of victory would never be so narrow again.

PummelKing, Im not sure how much you can tell about what CoachBray does or does not know by reading the last post. If he erred on a ref's name, thanks for the correction. And regarding 16 shots to 2, I believe CoachBray's point was that the wrestler taking all the shots should not be called for stalling. Many wrestlers win by waiting to counter, but this is often called stalling. In all positions, our sport demands that wrestlers constantly work to improve their positions. Holding on for an opponent does not qualify, is stalling, is a passive strategy antithetical to the nature of wrestling, and it does not make sense when the aggressive wrestler is penalized. How much more does one need to know about the sport to understand that? Also, Millington call was single worst call of tournament. Even if hands were broken, which they weren't, it's not necessarily either loss of control or escape. I am not in the habit of lambasting referees, but that man either had teh worst day of anyone's life or is completely unsuited to officiate at the state level. He was equally bad at the state duals. Absolutely horrible, if he were a driver he'd need to retake his permit test. [Edited by Empro on 2-21-03 11:33A]