McNine4MVP

Hey, I'm glad to admit that I was wrong, but that was certainly the feel most had to have going into that game. That was a program "grow up: win for Antioch. To pull that out without their studs, no matter how ugly it was, is huge. Antioch basketball has a reputation for not being able to rise to the challenge.............well they got that monkey off their backs last night. Congrats to Coach Crowder and his boys. I hope Wells learns his lesson, he's too good an athlete to be getting involved in fights and stuff at school. I know things happen in high school, but he's held to a different standard.

Whites Creek seems to be peaking, while Antioch is battling through injuries and disciplinary problems. Do the Bears have any chance in this one? I think they have a chance, but I like Whites Creek by 8. I just think Nollner is BY FAR, the better coach in this game and that Graham is just one of those once in ten year players that combines athleticism with heady, controlled play. Anybody else got any thoughts?

Yawn, We're back to this subject again. Look, anything before about 1980 is ancient history on this board. The kids that are playing the game now (and a Lot of posters on this board to be honest) were born between 1989-1992.....they weren't even alive for the Challenger explosion or Chernobyl. They were born about the time the Berlin Wall came down for crying out loud!!! Plus, as Buford Pusser stated correctly above, anything before desegregation really holds no merit because it wasn't the best players playing the best players. I'd imagine some of the Memphis teams, Nashville Pearl, Nashville Cameron, the all-black school in Murfreesboro, etc. probably could have beat the pants off of the majority of the state "champs" of that time. Could you really imagine not having black athletes at many of these high schools. The big schools in Middle and West Tennessee wouldn't even hardly have a team if you took those kids off of them. Seriously, imagine Riverdale without the Fernando Bryant's, Eric Locke's, Alvin Duke's, Gaston Miller's of the world. Imagine Smyrna without the Larry Daniels', Marsalous Johnson's, Rod Wilks, etc. That was a watered-down product then that really doesn't hold much merit now that the contributions of the black athlete have been realized. With that said, I don't think there is much doubt that in 5A, the power is concentrated in Middle Tennessee, particularly in Regions 4 and 6. Now, with Region 5 really stepping up their coaching to match the talent in Metro Nashville, its really not a contest. Now, there are the outliers like Ooltewah and White Station, that can play with anybody, but week to week, I don't think they are playing the combination of good athletes/good coaches that the Middle Tennessee teams are playing and therefore, not quite ready to play in that one game crapshoot against those battle tested Middle Tennessee teams. Volman and I had a little battle going on here before the Smyrna-Ooltewah game where he thought this team that got beat 49-0 by Riverdale had NO CHANCE to beat the Owls. What I harkened back on in my analysis of that game is the schedule that each team played and the recent history of those programs. Smyrna had played three teams that had made state finals appearances in the past 4 years (Riverdale (X2), Brentwood, Ravenwood (became X2)). The Owls didn't play that type of comp week in and week out. To be honest, Ooltewah was much better than I expected them to be up close and they still couldn't beat Smyrna, who in all actuality, was probably was the 3rd best 5A team in Middle Tennessee. This is a Bulldog team that struggled against Oakland (another program that has won a state title in the past 10 years), lost to Ravenwood at home, and got cell block initiated against Riverdale. But they were tested and knew how to finish ballgames.

Donathan, Your numbers aren't far off, but you have to realize that these high schools up in NET are the only ball game in most of those towns. Therefore, you have some QB clubs and local businesses that do a lot of their sponsorship and advertising with the local high school on Friday night. Williamson County does a good job supporting their athletics, but you have 6-8 different schools within ten miles of Indy, so that support gets spread out more. It would not shock me at all if SS is making 85-90K at SH. And let me tell you, like Bud said, 90K in JC is about what 150K would be in WillCo.

No, This thread should never be dropped. It's too easy to sweep something like this under the rug. This thread is a synopsis of how far we've come as a people, but this Coach's comments illustrate how much further we have to go!!

Obviously you don't know a darn thing about building a program, and you sure must not have come down and seen the best Tennessee 5A football teams. Excluding Ooltewah, do you realize that the 5-7 best 5A teams in Tennessee are within 25 miles of Independence's campus.....I have a feeling that Scott was probably more scared of Riverdale, Smyrna, Ravenwood, Franklin, Brentwood, etc than he will anybody up in NET, including San Diego......I mean D-B (notice all of these except Franklin have gold balls this decade...and they have a finals appearance).......and he had to start from scratch. Did you know that Independence, from what I understand, had the option to start in 4A, but Smith and his AD decided to take their lumps with the big boys in Region 6, which is Tennessee 5A football's equivalent of the SEC East. True, he didn't stay long enough to reach the pinnacle at Indy, but he had that ship going in the right direction. All of this, while having the middle season marred by the loss of a player in a car wreck. The guy is a good coach, like his style or not. I'll go ahead and say he won't finish worse than third in that Region in 2007 if he has any material at all to work with.

I don't agree with some of the stuff SS says, but you folks up in East Tennessee better be careful whose tree you're barking up. This is a guy that has won a Gold Ball....true it was in 1A, but you have to be doing something right to get one of those. Also, what he did in three years at Independence, building up a new program in three years in possibly the best 5A region in the state (The region has been represented in 4 of the last 6 5A state championship games) is very impressive. Even his detractors will admit that. I have a feeling that if there is any talent at all up in Johnson City, he'll be a threat up there very soon.

HAHA!!! Whatever CCF was paying Patton wasn't enough. That pipeline was 3 deep most years. Trust me, I grew up in that neighborhood and there was a time in the late 1990's where the best players at Ezell, Father Ryan, and BA were all Antioch or Lavergne kids with UNA ties. The O.J. Vance's, Gerrod Shirey's, Jason Rowlett's, Josh Willoughby's, Derek Wigginton's, Lance Phillips', Mikey Patton's, etc of the world. But, you know, all the BA folks have this plausable deniability thing and actually have the audacity to wonder why they are so disliked.

The majority of Antioch's current stable of athletes are coming out of Trent Anderson's JFK program via the UNA junior pro leagues. The vast majority of those kids should still be zoned AHS after Cane Ridge opened. Woody should still be in good shape even when CRHS opens up. Cane Ridge is an interesting job and I am very interested to see who they give that job to. The Greg Abner rumor makes absolutely no sense to me, other than his principal taking the same position at CRHS. I know he has to deal with a shorter stack at Glencliff, but they haven't even made too many runs at people in the past 4-5 years. I know he's in 4A, but Ralph Thompson has similar issues at Maplewood and he's had success that Abner quite frankly hasn't. I would much rather see a Trent Anderson or a Jason Bush get that job, if they aren't going for a proven commodity. To be honest, this is where I thought Scott Smith would go if he ever left Indy.....lots of Antioch and Ezell ties in that neighborhood for him. What I would do if I was Cane Ridge is to go after a proven, veteran head coach like a Buddy Brown or Terry Anderson, and bring in a young hotshot to take it over 3-4 years down the road. Terry bringing in Trent as his right hand man and giving it over to his kid after the foundation is set makes a TON of sense. WIP, is there any rule against father/son working together in Metro???

I thought about the prospects of Woodward leaving Antioch for Williamson County, but to be honest, he'd really be borderline crazy to leave AHS right now for several reasons. 1. Talent - Look, you do get a little harder-edged type of kid at Antioch than you do in WillCo, but the numbers in pure athletes in that school is mind-boggling. Woody is a younger guy, and he knows how to deal with the 15-18 year old egos. When you have success like he had in his first year, that breeds a respect level in those hallways and kids gravitate to a program like that. I mean, he didn't even get to implement his whole package this year, and he still ALMOST beat the defending state champs in the second round of the playoffs. 2. Good youth coming up - He's got a group of sophomores right now that are pretty darn talented. They may struggle early while TD and some of those other kids learn the intensity that they have to bring on this level, but the cupboard is not even close to bare. 3. The Saban/Smith factor - Its amazing how people rip these coaches for doing what they perceive as best for their careers and families. If you had a better offer on your job that may offer more free time, more resources, more money, etc....you'd be gone in 60 seconds. If Woody left Antioch right now, he'd be getting grilled just like Scott is on here, and how Nick Saban is down in Miami. To be honest, I think Woody has at least, as good a shot to win a Gold Ball at Antioch right now, than he would in WillCo. Region 5 proved that they aren't as bad as everyone perceives them to be, but with that said, its probably an easier run-through for Woody than Region 6 is.

Eubanks should be the guy they hire for that job. He is a darn good ball coach. One thing about this move is that SS didn't leave the cupboard bare. This could be a good team next year.

Wow, Just a bizarre career move from where I sit. Trust me, I had an ex-girlfriend that went to ETSU and the two best things out of Johnson City, being a Nashville boy, is I-81 and I-26 (no offense JC folks, just used to a different style of living...pretty place though). Scott just doesn't even seem like a great fit up there, like he was in 6-5A. He's isn't a "good ole boy" like a lot of the coaches up that way, and that is going to possibly lead to a lot of people trying to knock his block off. Let me tell you one thing though, that guy is probably going to shuffle the deck of 5A football in Northeast Tennessee, for however long he decides to stay. He thrives on people not liking him....I think it motivates him. There hasn't been much up there in NE Tennessee 5A football that has impressed me in recent years. I think that was the allure for Scott. He probably had a Top 15 5A football team this year (especially before the Cordell suspension), and didn't even make the playoffs. With Ravenwood being Ravenwood, Franklin should be better at the QB position, and Brentwood bouncing back, maybe he just felt like he would rather be the big fish in a smaller pond. Get ready for a guy that will throw it 40 times a game if he has the personnel to do it. Your QB's should be the happiest guys in East Tennessee today, but they better be ready to work.

The Pre-Season Top Ten For 5A: 1. Ooltewah 2. Smyrna 3. Riverdale 4. Franklin 5. White Station 6. Cookeville 7. Dobbyns-Bennett 8. Antioch 9. Brentwood 10. Independence Notice that Ravenwood, Oak Ridge, and Gallatin are all missing. If Rector stays at RHS, the Raptors climb back into the Top 10, no question, behind Becker. What is the heck happened to Oak Ridge? They were in Murfreesboro last year and didn't even sniff the playoffs in 2006. Gallatin lost too much, and I see Antioch FINALLY winning Region 5-5A (which showed up big time in the playoffs), if Mike Woodward stays on Hobson Pike, but if Rector leaves for BA, Woody may very well be the guy at Ravenwood.

You couldn't go wrong with any of those candidates for the BA job, but I kind of hope they give it to Brothers. He's an alum, one of the best players they've ever produced (that cat did it all), and he's done a good job building a program from the ground up at JP II. I really hope that Coach Rector stays at Ravenwood, unless the difference in salary is >$30,000. I just think the job he's done building a public school program from the ground up, in short order, has been amazing. I REALLY hope he stays right where he is. Quarles is at the same point in his career that Gary Rankin was 12 months ago. Rankin left Riverdale, primarily because of the influx of new schools in Rutherford County (Siegel, Blackman, the planned Rockvale).....eating at his base of athletes. Quarles has accomplished everything that he can at Maryville at the 4A level, but now there is a little uncertainty with them possibly moving up to 5A. I still think they will be mighty successful at the 5A level, but those playoff roads will have a few more potential bumps in it. I kind of hope Quarles gets the job at BA, primarily because I think that Region 6-5A has the best collection coaches in the state with Rector, Crawford, Smith, Clayton, etc. They are showing that it can be done with PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS!!!!

Bigchief, You literally made me spit my Dr. Pepper all over my keyboard with that oh-so-true statement I loved my UNA Bears days and have nothing but love for John P. and company, but you know exactly what I'm talking about. John should have been paid whatever a top college recruiting coordinator was making in the 90's. There's a pretty extensive list of Una personnel that "magically" ended up at Brentwood Academy, with the only payment many times being gas to get to and from Granny White Pike.

Carlton Flatt is the ultimate conundrum when it comes to high school football in the state of Tennessee. I've met the man several times through the years and he was always above board and cordial to me, and for that I am appreciative. He was/is an outstanding football coach and molder of young men, and he will be sorely missed. I wish he, and his family the best in their future. I have known Jeff Brothers since I was 8 years old and their search should start and stop there. He's a true Brentwood Academy guy and he's still young and would be there a long time. Brian Rector would be a great candidate, but he's doing such great things over on Wilson Pike that it would be a shame for him to leave for that job for the reasons that I will bring up in a moment. However, I have to admit that a lot of what BA accomplished in the late 1980's, into the mid-1990's is a bit tarnished in my eyes. Its not all their fault, because similar things happened at Riverdale (talking about a pot calling the kettle black Rankin) and Hoover, AL, but there was certainly some "player steering" going on from at least one junior pro football system in Southern Davidson County into the Brentwood Academy pipeline that I am directly aware of. I mean, it was blatant!! There were holdbacks of kids when they got enrolled there for "maturing" and other issues. As I have always said, it isn't just coincidence that the Antioch's, Hillsboro's, and Brentwood High's started having a lot of success as soon as the BA-TSSAA suit hit around 1997. BHS didn't ever win more than 5 games in a season between 1985-1997, as far as I know. With that said, I hate this stinking watered down split, and I wish somebody smart at the TSSAA (insert joke here______) would reunite the divisions under 4 classes (we might be big enough for 5 classes now, but it was a reach when they did this 10 years ago) with a 1.5 multiplier, but watch these privates like a hawk on the financial aid side. Now, I admit that I am a proponent of public schools, so I am a bit biased, but the BA's of the world did a lot of damage to public schools in general, and public school sports in particular. I'm jealous of the days when our father's played high school ball at Central, Cameron, Cumberland, Antioch, Overton, Hillsboro, Madison, DuPont, Pearl, East, Litton, Hermitage, and the list goes on with the guys they went to church with and lived down the street from. These public schools used to be woven into a fabric of the community and were something that all people, rich or poor, black or white, could unite and support on Friday's in the fall. White flight (kids read up on that for social understanding) and the establishment of these "Christian educational systems" in the 1970's have absolutely killed the public educational system in this country. I can't blame the parents for wanting their kids to have a better learning environment, but maybe this vigor should have been utilized to better the public school systems that these same parents were products of. I don't mean to get too political about it, but I hope you all understand where I'm coming from. I have no qualms with Carlton Flatt, the man, and I wish him the best in whatever he decides to do. He has worked his butt off to be a success and the mission was accomplished!!!! My concerns are more with the system as a whole, than it is with Coach Flatt. Coach Flatt just used the system to his advantage, and there is ultimately nothing wrong with that. Good Luck Coach!!!

Wow, I'm impressed with that schedule Batman. I haven't seen or talked to you in probably 5-6 years, but I'm really happy for you and the success that you've achieved in your job. I got a chance to see you all against Dickson County and was really impressed with your young QB (Smith???) You all should be a well-oiled machine by November playing that slate. I particularly like how Independence and Antioch have scheduled. These are two ascending programs who have taken the Ravenwood/FSU in the 1980's "we'll play anybody, anywhere" mantra to build their programs and realize that "scared money can't win". These are the types of matchups that prepare you for November football. I think Antioch opens with MBA and Riverdale their first two games!!! I think August football is going to be very interesting here in the Midstate!!

http://preps.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...36&game_id= I know this one is destined for a closed topic discussion, but it has to be brought back up after the show in The Tennessean today. The Dave Chappelle's player hater's ball has just broken out against Smyrna. This is absolutely amazing. I just can't believe that a team mom would say that its the "worst thing she's ever seen in sports". This is almost comical from my end. She may need to get out a little bit more, or at least hang out for about 10 minutes in her own Raptor student section. This almost reaks of the "we didn't win, but I always get my way" kind of thing. I'm on record as saying that I could have done without what Smyrna's kids did immediately after the game, because I have a lot of respect for Ravenwood's players and coaches and actions like that from afar make it seem like you don't. I know that's not the case because Smyrna's players and coaches actually admire what Ravenwood has accomplished in a short period of time. However, those little "ANGELS" in the Raptor student section have a big role in this, dating back to September 30th. You all can pile on JC all you want, but it takes two to tango, as they say, and they are not without blame. People on the outside have no idea how close the first Ravenwood game and postgame incident came to ruining what ended up being a state championship run for the Bulldogs. There is no way that Smyrna wins the Ship without the kid who's football future was put on ice after that windy night in Smyrna. Now, he was DEAD WRONG in how he handled things that night, but he's a high-strung, competitive guy, and you live and learn. People know that I played a little ball back in the day and I will pay this kid the ultimate compliment, I would have absolutely LOVED to play alongside a guy like JC. You have to remember, we are dealing with 15-18 year old kids and they don't always make the best decisions at a beckon call. If they feel like they've been wronged, they will practice the eye-for-an-eye thing at the drop of a hat. Trust me, the little acknowledgement to the crowd was several months of frustration coming out. That kid is as well liked as anyone on that Smyrna team and his guys had his back, starting with a team vote just to have him reinstated. That was a vindication moment for all of those kids, as well as a championship one. This sounds like sour grapes to me. Trust me, I am going to write Jeff Lockridge an e-mail (he's a very good guy) and stand up (somewhat....I reiterate that I could have done with the celebration) for the Smyrna guys. As a guy who is older than the players, but young enough to still put myself in their shoes, I realize this was a Newton's Third Law moment. I NEVER in a million years would have thought I'd say this, but Ravenwood fans have stooped lower than their neighbor Bruins on arrogance. And Raptor fans, take some advice for future reference "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Jeez, The right fit is right under our nose, WIP. Runtheball would be the PERFECT candidate for that job. I can't believe that didn't occur to me sooner. I'm DEAD serious......he has the right personality for that type of job. Runtheball has never taken over a brand new program (although Antioch in 1993 or 1994 was almost as bad as Hillwood is now), and that could be the crowning jewel on his resume.

Wow, Now that could be a very intriguing matchup. Two of the largest schools in the state of Tennessee and two teams that lost heartbreakers in the 5A playoffs this season. Ron Aydelott against his alma mater and his Metro ties are the inside connections to make this game work. The first game of this series is scheduled for August 31 @ Antioch. Mike Woodward is going a great job at Antioch and they could be a very dangerous opponent for Riverdale if Woody finds a QB to replace Bradford.

Hey HSsportsfootball, hate to call you out, but you are the person on here with the most inside knowledge of the program there at LaVergne. I have a couple of questions for ya?? What are you and your teammates thoughts on the potential hire of Murry? What kind of rapport does he have with you older guys??

I've heard some good things about Murry, but man, that is a HUGE jump from coaching at LaVergne Middle to coaching against state championship coaches like Shadowens and Aydelott. He is somewhat of a fit and does bring some familiarity with the kids to the program though. Good luck to him. I always like to see a young guy get a shot.

Exactly, Hillwood is probably the worst HC job in Metro because of the disjointed zoning, the affluent athletes in that area have private school choices (MBA, Ryan, Ensworth), and just abysmal facilities. I wouldn't go so far to say that most of the good athletes in Antioch come from the east side of Murfreesboro Road. For example, the best athletes that have come through there in the past five or seven years (LaMarcus Coker, Preston Brown, Mario Moore, DeQuan and Chris Adams, etc) all grew up in "West Antioch".

First of all congrats to both teams on a great season. Brian Rector is one heck of a coach and the Raptor community should feel lucky to have him. You guys bounced back from a tough start to show the heart of a champion throughout the rest of the season. To be honest, the Raptors have been in do-or-die situations since Week 5 and have pulled off some cardiac kid comeback feats to stay alive. Ravenwood pulled off some great last minute wins against Antioch, Hunters Lane, and White Station in these playoffs.......tonight they just didn't have the juice left to mount a comeback. On to Smyrna.....All I can say is WOW!!! That was a pretty dominating performance from about the 5:00 mark of the second quarter on. I want to personally apologize to Phillip Shadowens for a comment I made about a month and a half ago. I commented that I thought Shad was a 7-3 or 8-2 coach with 9-1 or 10-0 talent. I was wrong to say that and you have made me eat my words the past three weeks. I know how sweet this must be for him, considering he's been a Smyrna guy his whole life, and he's suffered the frustrations of coming up short. I just want to offer my congrats and let him know that he has shut me up!!!! I knew that Smyrna had some superior personnel outside with Wilks being a mismatch for whoever was guarding him, whether it be Scott Ford or George Tanifan. Sonny does a good job of adjusting protections and making sight adjustments on the fly and he took advantage of some favorable matchups. Then late in the game Antoine was just ripping off 10 yards a carry. Smyrna's O-Line was great for the most part, picking up the blitzes off the edge (Maceo did a great job of picking up rushers as well) and plowing holes in the run game. I really think Rod's kick return was the biggest play of the game. Ravenwood had all the momentum and that just took wind from them that they never got back. Josh Day is a flat out player.....13 tackles, 2 sacks, and a pick in the red zone......that's how you got to work. Add to that great plays by Josh Crouch and Will Martin, and you have a Smyrna win. On the postgame celebration, I DO agree that what Smyrna did immediately after the game was a little bush league......................HOWEVER..............I heard some of the things that Ravenwood's student section was saying and I bet that Josh Crouch and Company (along with some of the trash that was posted in here for the last two months regarding JC) just had a moment of Sweet Emotion running through them. I hope stuff like that does not become common place, but I do sense a trend of fans at all levels of play becoming too condescending towards players. Whether it be the Detroit-Indiana Artest melee, Mike Vick shooting the bird at some rowdy fans, the Dodgers fight at Wrigley a few years back...................I just think fans at all levels should probably back off a little. I'm gonna let that slide because I understood the raw emotion and the storylines behind it, but a lot of people watching on TV and in the stands don't know this stuff and it can look bad. Congrats to Smyrna and hand in there to Ravenwood, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Just ran into a better squad with better horses tonight.

Not sore at all dude. Hey, I'm almost right down the middle in this game. Ravenwood earned their way to this point, just like Smyrna did. That was just the lead-in on www.tennessean.com and a little bulletin board material always makes for a better game.