Thebballguru

darn, that described my day too! Freakin midgets....but God love the Trojans! ANYTIME GHS gets beat I am ecstatic! I can't wait to see Alcoa absolutely throttle them.

I listened to the North Greene and Cosby game on the radio, and I know it was a greeneville based radio station, but was the officiating as bad as Marty Ricker made it seem? I have heard the guys from WIKQ bash the officials on a regular basis while on the air but NEVER this bad! He spent more time complaining and talking about how awful the referees were than he did doing his job-ANNOUNCING THE GAME!!! It was getting really annoying after the 200th time I heard him say "Wow...go figure another foul on North Greene...these guys are terrible! Fans this is the worst officiated game I have ever called...and BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!" I was starting to think Burt Bertlecamp was doing high school basketball games now

Good question greenwhweel...one that many fans would never think to ask but that could turn out to be very important given certain situations...The way the referees did it in this game, if done as described, was wrong. In high school basketball you ALWAYS shoot them in the order they happened therefore the 9th team foul should have put the "foulee" on the line for a 1 and 1. Before he shoots, the player with 5 fouls should have a sub come in for him. Upon completion of the 1 and 1 try, the technical free-throws should then be administered and then the ball put in play as always when a technical is called in high school ball-at half court opposite the scores table.,,

One quick note, It was Cumberland Gap that defeated West Greene Tuesday night and not Claiborne County. Not sure who Claiborne played that night. I went to watch the Devils and Rebels and was both impressed by the intensity and tenacity that GHS played with on the defensive end and disappointed in the Rebels poor shooting and performance on the offensive end. Blake had an "off" night and I definately credit Coach D and the Devil's for shutting him down while also containing the rest of SG's offense. This tournament is going to be great! Anybody can beat anybody on any given night from top to bottom and it is definately going to be fun to watch. Good luck to everyone involved on both the girls and boys side of it!

The underlying issue here is the idea of the pot calling out the kettle. Pigeon Forge has a history of having athletes magically appear on their doorstep. If you don't believe me look at the starting lineup for their 2005 baseball team that was state runner-up. It's like a burgler turning in a con artist. Add to that the fact that the only people who know if any recruiting occured are the Coach Placeres and kids in question. Does the whole situation seem to true to belief? Yes, it does. But so does the idea that a high school basketball coach who recently became a father left his pregnant wife alone all summer to fly around the country with Ed Orgeron and Bruce Pearl as part of some super recruiting team. The bottom line is these kids (and its important to remember that they are just kids) have formed a bond as teammates that is much stronger than any of these distractions. And I must say, it has been a joy to watch them grow as a team, as basketball players, and, most importantly, as quality young men.

While this is the rule, more times than not (a swing and a miss especially) ejections are not enforced as they should be. Technical fouls are issued, the coach generally pulls that player out of the game and thats as far as it goes. Ejecting a player(s) for fighting is a rule for a reason and if it was enforced a little more strictly instead of just the technical foul route then maybe these kids would think twice before doing it again...

A punch definately does warrant an ejection if the officials deem it necessary. Had the game been physical and intense the whole game leading up to this point? or was the punch thrown out of frustration because she turned the ball over at the end of the game? Was it a blatant punch that the official DEFINATELY saw, or were there several players around the play because of the loose ball and maybe the official was blocked out and didnt see the punch? Were the two tied up and it was just a "get off me" kind of thing or was the girl intentionally trying to hit the other girl in the face with her fist? While none of these situations mentioned makes throwing a puch ok, the reasoning behind ejecting a player or not often times has more than just "that one incident" involved in making the decision as emotions run high for everyone throughout the game...this is why sometimes just a personal foul will be called, but sometimes an intentional, a technical, or a flagrant foul will be called too-It all depends on the situation... The "punchee" was below, closer to the half-court line. There was your normal tugging of the ball by both players, nothing more, and it had ended. The "puncher" just looked to be out of control, and what's worse, I was told by someone sitting on that team's side some of their fans were laughing over it. Doubtful it was students, either, as their boys had already gone into the locker room to prepare for the next game. It was blatant, no other players were near. They saw it and called a technical but no player was ejected. If they'd not seen it, there would have been no T. The puncher had to reach over to connect. I got the feeling they just didn't give a care in the final minute. Whether right or wrong, this is probably the main reason the player was not ejected. The official gave a Technical instead of the ejection because unlike an ejection...technical fouls do not require paperwork and a report sent in to the state. If it happened the way you say it did, then I am led to believe and ejection would have been the appropriate action in this case and I promise after sitting out at a crucial time of the year that she would at least think twice before letting another punch fly!!!

THIS is right on the MONEY!!!!!!

Minus gas, food, and wear and tear on the vehicles....and with the gas prices these days it takes more $$ to get to the games than you may imagine when sometimes officials are driving 90-100 miles each way to get to a game, and figure 15-20 mpg on average...Sure it would be ok money if you stayed in your back yard everynight, but that rarely happens for obvious reasons...I guess we are both right depending on how you look at it tho...

While I agree with most of your post and am 100% with you that there are SOME referees out there whose ego's are out of this world and they are completely out of line and arrogant, I still wouldnt go as far as to say that the majority are that way. The actions of few cast a bad shadow on all more times than not...And referees at the high school level are hardly paid VERY well. College and professional basketball on the other hand is a whole different story!!! MOST of the guys officiating high school ball do it for the kids and the love of the game, there are just a couple out there who give everyone a bad rep...

A punch definately does warrant an ejection if the officials deem it necessary. Had the game been physical and intense the whole game leading up to this point? or was the punch thrown out of frustration because she turned the ball over at the end of the game? Was it a blatant punch that the official DEFINATELY saw, or were there several players around the play because of the loose ball and maybe the official was blocked out and didnt see the punch? Were the two tied up and it was just a "get off me" kind of thing or was the girl intentionally trying to hit the other girl in the face with her fist? While none of these situations mentioned makes throwing a puch ok, the reasoning behind ejecting a player or not often times has more than just "that one incident" involved in making the decision as emotions run high for everyone throughout the game...this is why sometimes just a personal foul will be called, but sometimes an intentional, a technical, or a flagrant foul will be called too-It all depends on the situation...

It was really quite ridiculous...I can't fault him for fighting for his kids and wanting to win, BUT his actions and words were extreme in this situation and he deserved the suspension. I was at this game and can tell you 100% sure the officials did the RIGHT thing in placing time back on the clock at the end of the game because the visiting coach did indeed call the timeout before time expired. I actually thought there should have been an additional .2 seconds on top of what they put back on it...and the foul called as time expired on the hail mary pass-turn-shot was warranted as the kid from West CLOBBERED the shooter...Coach needs to be careful where he places blame for the losses he has suffered as I am sure had West done a couple things differently...ie freethrows, layups, that stuff then the outcome may have been different. I will congradulate the West players on fighting back from a hefty deficit that night and making it a game tho...IMAC tourny should be fun!!!

#1-Depew is a great basketball player, yes...but the best of the 3 mentioned, probably not. #2-Morristown West CAN beat Mt. Juliet, whether they will or not given the opportunity is another story completely. I have seen the Lady Red, Lady Trojans, and Lady Bears play several different times each and while C.C.H.S is a great basketball team, both MWHS and MJHS are on a completely different level this year and it would definately be a dogfight if/when the 2 teams meet. This is definately a ballgame hope to be attending as I am sure it will be the "must see" of the night

Keep telling yourself that...maybe one day someone will believe you!!! There probably are a FEW referee's who listen tooooo intently to the crowd and concentrate tooooo much on keeping the coaches in their boxes (which is believe it or not a rule in high school basketball in TN) but MOST of the referee's are out there for the kids. NOT the coaches, NOT the fans, NOT the money, NOT themselves, BUT they are out there because they love basketball and they enjoy being a part of the game and they love the kids...don't let the actions of a few ref's who don't do their jobs the right way sway your opinion on all officialls, because most of them do a good job and and they work hard to get better and learn something new each game...

LoL

This does not even warrant a response but I will give one anyway to bring your stupidity to light. The hostility of your post makes you sound like you are one of those people who places the blame for losing on anything and everything EXCEPT where it belongs. You completely missed the point of my previous post and your ignorance in this post is quite amusing...I will elaborate for your obviously simple mind so you can understand a little bit better... You say that there is no accountablity by the officials supervisors, and since you have "seen this first hand" then provide an example, prove your point...because I "have seen first hand" supervisors evaluate and critique officials quite often. Since you are such as expert on the TSSAA and the referee's associations (you say the guys in Knoxville and MORRISTOW are "a notch above Smokey Mt." which contradicts yourself because Smokey Mt. IS MORRISTOWN...but that was probly a typo right? HA) I am sure you know that part of the supervisors job is to go to games and watch different crews and tell them what they need to work on and improve and change after the game. I know 100% that supervisors from each association are in a gym somewhere watching their officials work and then critiquing them after the game because many times I sit with them throughout the game and hear first hand exactly what each person in the crew needs to do better...so please enlighten me on your "first hand" experience now.... The only thing in your post that is anywhere remotely close to being acurate is the statement you made about training, but is still not completely accurate. I'm sure of course you already know everything I am getting ready to say (or at least will claim to have known) but I will say it for everyone else who may be interested anyway as well as to educate "luvgolf's" complete ignorance on the subject...While it is the supervisors decision which referees are ready to work the regular season basketball games the state has certain qualifications an official must have to referee any post season tournament, i.e. District, Regional, Sub-State, and State tournaments. In order to be qualified to work these tournaments a referee must attend camp once every 3 years and also must pass an exam consisting of 50 questions with a score of 80% or better. The camps are usually offered in the summer and are TSSAA sanctioned with supervisors from all across the state as well as veteran high school and college officials watching and giving their advice and "coaching" the referee's in a sense...most of this is done one on one with the supervisor pulling each official to the side during the game and sending another out in his place so he can give correction to the referee and then allow him the opportunity to see the changes and how the official integrates the advice given when he goes right back out on the floor. There are also class room sessions at the camp where "all things basketball" are discussed. These camps are also a place where the junior varsity guys can go to help them learn to work in a 3 man crew and get better as an official as well as they try and move up the ladder to varsity basketball. The Exam that must be passed covers situations and rules that occur and are enforced often as well as unusual circumstances that rarely happen but always have the possibility of popping up when least expected. If either or both of these criteria are not met then that official is NOT going to work, period. The TSSAA DOES hold officials accountable as do the SUPERVISORS in each association, and they DO TRAIN the officials and work with them throughout the year to get better and improve...and regardless of whatever kind of ignorance you spout off with now these are the facts "first hand"!!! There is good and bad in every single area of the state from one end to the other and there are a handful of referee's in each association who probably shouldn't be in some of the games that they are in, and definately have things they need to work on and improve at BUT to say that there is no accountability and to knock all the officials in one part of the state is completely ludacris. That is like saying that because a basketball team has 1 kid that is awful and cant even dribble that everyone at that whole school is awful at basketball...If you are going to bust on the referee's-who from the way it sounds may have called a contreversial game, especially if they had an un-neccessary foul/whistle at the end of the game to give one team the advantage in winning because that should NEVER happen...both teams should always have equal opportunity to play and win each game-then at least be educated with what you say and don't just spout of at the mouth trying to sound like you are smart and like you have all the "inside info that you have seen first hand" because it makes you look ignorant...and nobody likes ignorance...

The Smokey Mountain Association is based out of Morristown actually there buddy....EVERY association has good and bad referees, as long as there is basketball this will be the case. As a fan of basketball in East Tennessee I have seen officials from every association work from Tri-Cities all the way to both Knoxville associations and Smokey Mt as well. The Smokey Mt officials do just as good of a job as the other associations do, although there are several guys from there who I have seen call that I question whether or not they are "ready" for varsity basketball. I have seen good and bad from every association...it is unfair to classify ALL the officials in Smokey Mt as bad because you don't like a crew or "the young one" because trust me when I say this-each association has their own "young one" (or two lol) that people are saying the same thing about there... As far as the rest of your post goes, I agree that a good referee will not stand out during a game. Most of the time the best and smoothest basketball games are the ones where everyone leaves not even knowing the referees were there!

Like yourself, I am also just a fan of basketball and have been coming to this tournament for years since I live in Greene County. I agree that there were several referees who worked that couldn't get into postition because of weight or because they are getting up in age and couldn't keep up with the speed of the game so they probably did have to guess at a few calls. Overall though, I felt that most of the officials did a good job with the tournament. Like I said earlier, there were calls in every single game I watched that I didnt agree with-but that happens in every single game that is played... Maybe a better way to describe it would have been to say that several of the referees had no place out there and made themselves and the guys they were with look bad, but as a whole the tournament was officiated well... I like the comment made about the games being called more like a college game would have been, that is a great way to describe it...and after watching basketball for several decades I have come to the conclusion that games in which players can "play through" the minimal contact or the "small stuff" and keep the clock going, which allows the teams to get in a groove and set a good tempo for the game, tend to go a lot smoother and be a lot better games than those where the teams are in the bonus by the end of the first quarter. I understand that it cant be avoided in some games, but for the most part it is true...and as a whole that is how the games I witnessed at the classic were called...

I don't know about that game, but I saw a dozen or so games. The refs were horrible. They would be out of position and still make a call because they thought it may have happened. And the walks.. geez. Ever game I would see 2 or 3 walks called that were in no way a walk. Several of the refs were unwilling to give explainations to coaches for calls. I feel sorry for the districts that have to use those refs. Half of them were out of shape and if it became a transition game they would slow it down with a bogus call. I do not think it was called in favor of anyone (but the refs). I even heard from one of the locals that Greeneville's Boys coach (Duncan?) will not even use their association for home games.. wow if that is true. Let me guess...your team didn't fare so well did they?!?...you sound bitter my friend... For the most part the tournament was officiated pretty well. I agree that there were several officials who were over weight and who couldnt get into position and that there were calls in every game that I didnt agree with, but nobody agrees with every call in any game!!!! As a whole, the games were called as evenly and fairly as could be asked for... To adress the comment made about Duncan...that is not true at all. I know for a fact that Coach Duncan DOES indeed use the association who called the tournament and that while I am sure there are several referees in the association he does not like, he for the most part gets veteran crews for his home games and although he may question a call or two during the game is satisfied with the officiating he recieves...

What was the outcome of the other games played today? Please update the scores, or at least the winners if you know who they are...thank you...

LAD1, the 4 teams that you mentioned are all good basketball teams and probably all have the potential to beat each other on any given night, but to say they are the best teams in the tournament may be a stretch...A lot of the teams in this years Classic are very similiar in size, talent, record thus far, and ability and I don't really see a CLEAR favorite to win it all going into it....that being said I have never seen either of the out-of-state teams play before, but I have seen most of the others in the field and they can all play some pretty good basketball and give teams from anywhere in the United States a run for their money!!! Should be an exciting week of basketball! Good luck to everybody!

There is definately a line that should be drawn as to what is acceptable to say or yell from the stands and what is not acceptable. ANY derogatory words, chants, or phrases directed at ANY player, coach, or official should not be tolerated...PERIOD. This is High School Basketball...HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL-where profanity and vulgarities have NO PLACE whatsoever!!!! I know if I had a child who was having things yelled at them like some of things I have heard the past few years especially, that I would not be happy and I would definatlely want it to stop...and if that meant the person spewing them being ejected then so be it... Cheering for your team and getting into the game and being excited is part of it. Yelling at the referees is part of it-until it gets to a certain point at which it has been taken TOO far...Any fan who pays there $5 to get in has the right to cheer and scream and yell for their team, and has the right to their opinion on a call or no-call that the referees make, but this should be done with the mindset and attitude that at the end of the day when the horn sounds it is JUST A GAME...Personal attacks towards referees or players are NEVER right and in my opinion should never be allowed to go on at a high shcool ballgame... Contrary to what many fans believe, referees (for the most part) do not come into the gym trying to "screw" over one team or the other, or wanting all eyes on them. I know that there may be a few exceptions to that when it comes to referees with ego's, because there are a few of them out there, BUT even those go into the game and officiate it as fairly as they can. I can only imagine from speaking with some close friends who referee how difficult of a job it is, and how thankless of a job it is at that. 99.999% of these guys are not out there for the money or "to be seen" or anything like that...they are out there because they LOVE the game of basketball and they enjoy being a part of the game. The money is not that good-especially after you figure the gas it takes to get to the games and the wear and tear on the vehicles, and with the abuse that they take on and off the floor then I would venture to say if it wasn't for the love of the game then there would not be any referees so that the games could be played. As long as there is basketball then there will be referees out there that some people hate to see walk in the gym and that people think have no place out there on the floor, that is just something that is not going to go away...but that is not an excuse to yell personal insults at them or to throw profanity their way either. These guys are just like you and me and all 10 players on the floor and the coaches on the sidelines...they are HUMAN and they WILL make mistakes EVERY SINGLE time they put on the stripes. Cut them some slack and just cheer for your team without the "You suck ref" or "Cheater" or anything like that...Understand that when they mess up that its not the first time nor will it be the last and just move on from it, just like the players move on when they miss a lay-up or shoot a free throw off the front of the rim. Move on from it just like the coaches do when they call the wrong play, or keep the press on even tho they are getting burned from it time after time...Just be a good sport and scream and laugh and yell and cheer, but do it within reason and don't let it get out of hand...its really not worth sitting in the car and listening to the rest of the game on the radio just to tell the referee that you think he is a cheater and that he sucks...

So far this year I have seen Cocke County, Morristown East and West, Sevier County, Jefferson County, and Cherokee play and it looks like most of the pre-season predictions are holding true. Morristown West is still the obviously the favorite to win the conference and make a deep run into the state tournament this year, and Cocke County has also impressed me also so far. Morristown East is MUCH improved from the past few years and I think will keep on getting better as the year progresses. 3rd place will come down to East and Jefferson County-who has played pretty well as a whole so far, but has been in some tight games, but it doesn't matter if you win by 1 or 100 a win is a win is a win! I haven't seen Seymour or South Doyle this year but if Seymour is anything like the team they had last season then I think it could just as easily be them playing either Jeff or East for 3rd place. From what I understand from talking to some of the South Doyle fans they don't have too much this year, but it would be hard for them to be any more down than Sevier County is this season-I haven't seen them this down in as long as I can remember! I know Cocke County and West are playing in the Ladies Classic, are any other teams playing in any holiday tournaments? If so, when and where?

I agree that this years Lady Devils are not of the same caliber as the teams the past 4 years have been...not even close actually...That being said, this team does have talent and is one of the better defensive teams I have seen so far this year, but they really need to get more consistant on the offensive end of the floor though...Round 1 goes to the Lady Devils, but Round 2 counts just as much and is going to be another great game I am sure...SG is only going to improve as the season continues and I still look for the Lady Rebels to make another trip to the Boro this year as I believe they are going to "peak" at the right time of the year-Tournament time. CD beat Grainger to death last night! White was on fire again and poured it on the grizzlies all night! They may make some noise in the conference before this year is over!!!

Sounds like it was a really fun game to watch! With the way some of these teams are playing this conference is shaping up for what could be a dog-fight for 1st-3rd place! Who all is recruiting the kid from GP? I have heard rumors that UT is interested but that could be just a rumor...does anybody know for sure?