briandrinkwine

Hey there, We're hosting this year's Nashville Western Division Tournament for middle school wrestling & I'm looking for someone to act as tournament director using trackwrestling. Know anyone who might be interested? The date is February 4th at HG Hill Middle School in Nashville. Coach Drinkwine HG Hill Wrestling

No, I agree that quantity does not equal quality. However, it does necessitate it. You can't build a strong wrestling contingent without growing numbers. Take a look at the top wrestling teams in the state and I'd be willing to bet that they have a significantly higher number of participants than the lower teams. Numbers do no equal greatness, but there's no such thing as a great program without any wrestlers. In the same way, participation rates DO have a direct effect on the overall quality of wrestling in the state.

I would also add that wrestling has declined significantly over the past 2 decades in the United States, so even if there are the same amount of programs in TN, this would be an accomplishment for our state considering the national trend.

On a side-note, I'm not sure about the assumption that D-I coaches were "for" the split. I know almost nobody that thought it was a good idea. The reality is that this was a sad consequence of people making poor ethical choices. We must keep in mind that while coaches and wrestlers were at the center of the controversy looming around the split in the late 90s, nobody really wanted it. Most people just wanted to see things done more equitably. Pointing fingers and calling people weak is hardly helpful.

This is actually a very good question. I have wondered before if the splitting up of divisions has given rise to more smaller schools creating and/or growing their programs. In middle school wrestling, this actually does have a positive effect. Basically, smaller ponds make it more motivating for coaches to grow full lineups, compete in the offseason, etc. Granted, it doesn't make for as spectacular of an end-of-year championship, but the overall effect on participation is a positive one. I'm curious to know how many programs we have in the state of TN right now. The year of the split, there were 95 programs in D-I and 15 in D-II. What about now? The TSSAA website doesn't make it easy to figure this out.

Thanks Thadd. Yes, the seasons are a little offset. Metro is starting its season halfway through Williamson's, which makes alignment very difficult. Our season ends at the same time as the high school season's Region Tournaments, usually the first weekend in February.

I think something like that would be totally doable. I could see it being easier for metro teams to participate in a post-season tourney hosted by another organization than to have other teams come participate in theirs. I know we do see other school's teams come to tournaments. Last year there were a couple teams from outside metro at a dual tournament. But they weren't club teams.

The only thing about competing against clubs is that I see no way around it. That would be something that would have to be an exception for wrestling, because no other sport allows it, even in most other counties (i.e. when does a high school soccer team ever compete vs a U-18 AAU team?). It's great to say to compete against the best, but it's hard to see a school district allowing school-based teams to compete against club teams, most likely because the club teams would have to be willing to undergo the same liability constraints as the school system's requirements, something that they aren't designed to do.

Getting 6th grade added was a huge step forward.

True. We got 6th grade added last year. Until that, it was only 7th-8th.

Dude, I feel ya on MLK & Hume Fogg. And to think that MLK doesn't even have a middle school program now. Really stinks. They're great schools. The family is doing well. Hope to see you at State!

I agree. One of the challenges is the lack of off-season programs in the urban core. Maybe some of our coaches can collaborate to create such a thing, but it's going to take some effort. I'm excited that there might be some coaches in our area that could spark something like that, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Hey Sean! Metro HAS begun allowing non-faculty coaches. I'm one of them. They also recently moved to a different stipend system that pays coaches a lot more. Hopefully that will help attract higher quality coaches. I understand the broader issue of school quality also. Many schools can't keep kids because parents are too concerned for their kids' well being, and I just can't argue with that. That said, there ARE some very good schools in Metro, but they aren't celebrated highly. Some schools in Metro are way better than their ratings suggest, because most ratings center on community perception and test scores, neither of which measure teacher quality as much as the student population zoned for that particular school. There are some amazing studies that have been done revealing how many of our suburban schools excel not because of quality teachers and administrators, but because of a higher percentage of invested students. In that case, we measure the quality of the students more than the quality of the school itself, and it masks what's really going on. I know that, for myself, I would definitely put my kids in some of the schools here, but that also depends on if I can get my kids into the schools I want. I know that's not for everyone and, as a parent, you have to make decisions for your kids based on your vision for them and I would never want to advocate for a situation that is detrimental to your kids' future. It's good to hear from you man. I hope you and your family are doing well. You're great people!

Great thoughts Jerome. I actually grew up in Antioch and always wanted to see AHS grow a strong program. I bet you can! The feeder schools thing is definitely a problem and we've advocated for coaches to be placed in at least one of the schools that feeds into Antioch, but without success. Thanks for pushing and keep it up.

So, I've been wondering about this for a while and wanted to get your thoughts. The wrestling here has been seriously hurting for a while as programs get cut and parents take their kids to the suburbs where wrestling is valued more. I really want to see it change, so I did the only thing I knew to do: I became a middle school wrestling coach. I went to middle school because, interestingly, I don't think becoming a high school coach would have helped since the problems start much earlier. I figured with 25 years of experience, I can do something. But, wow, the challenges! Where I coach At the school where I'm coaching (HG Hill Middle School), it seemed when I arrived last year that wrestling was such a lower sport that getting kids to come out was like pulling teeth. I started walking the cafeteria during lunch time to get kids to come out, but many of them literally laughed at me. As an adult, wow was that humbling! But things changed. We got a small core of kids who fell in love with the sport and, in only one year, it has changed dramatically, as we've quadrupled the amount of kids coming out for the team. But that's only one program. Thinking Broadly I began to talk to a couple other coaches last season who want to see the sport grow again in our area. We began thinking of ways we could affect change on a broader level. So I made 5 proposals to Metro Nashville Schools asking for a series of changes, including adding a 75 lbs weight class, adding a dual tournament, etc. Some were approved and some weren't. Then we went and found coaches for dying/canceled programs and we've gone from 17 programs to 23 since last season. It's not a total transformation, but it's definitely a win, and it's evidence that some of our steps are working. Multiple problems The issues with Metro Nashville wrestling are significant. The sport receives very little funding, so most programs are still using outdated equipment and apparel, and most coaches have little to no experience. I have been supplying some of the coaches with technique videos and methods to get higher turnout, but there's only so much you can do. I have also talked to some coaches about starting kids clubs, but most of them are so burned out by the perception that investing is pointless if the kids move to the suburbs or get snatched up by other schools as soon as their talent is spotted. I used to roll my eyes by that, thinking it was just an excuse, but I think many of these coaches really do want to see something big happen, but they're also exhausted. Thinking Different One of the things I want to do is challenge coaches, parents, administrators, and athletes in the area to resist the urge to think of our area as a lost cause, but to see it as a new beginning, an opportunity rather than a burden. There are some coaches in our area that are way ahead of me on this and, quite honestly, are the ones leading the charge. But I feel like we need more than a few good coaches and more money (though, to be quite honest, without those things it's quite an uphill battle). We need a total culture shift. We need the perception of wrestling to radically change in our area. Next Steps In only a couple short years, we're seeing metro wrestling take a big leap forward at the middle school level. But what's next? That's why I came on here. I wanted to ask you, as many of you have watched Nashville wrestling over the past 20 years or so, you may see things from the outside that I cannot see (my "blind spot"). What other things could we do in our area to elevate wrestling in an urban context?

I love this question! My wife and I are at the point where we're talking about adopting kids. I would LOVE to see my kid wrestle, but I think there's wisdom in many of these posts. There IS, however, something I think we can take away from this: What matters is not so much when the child begins wrestling, learning, and being exposed to the sport. What really matters is when the child begins to COMPETE. Rolling around on a mat vs competing in a tournament entail radically different sets of emotions. I would encourage parents to wait on taking their kids to tournaments until they are ready. And that's something only you as a parent can see.

Interesting. That's an unfortunate rumor. Dwayne was the only person on that list that went to Meigs & he lived in South Nashville, well within the school zone. Casey lived in Donelson (in Davidson County) and me and my brothers lived only a few miles away. We had already been assigned to the Overton cluster years prior anyway, so we weren't following Gabe to Overton (though he would have been worth following for sure). Nobody else on that list was from Meigs. They were all McMurray kids. Either way, Meigs is not a zone school anyway, so they didn't have to get special transfers unless they lived out of zone. (Note that there were other Meigs kids in prior years, but no starters were out of zone amongst them). Nobody on our team lived out of the county, either. That's a weird rumor. Also, you can trust the accuracy of my statement as I can literally tell you the neighborhoods of each of those team mates. I hope that sets your mind at ease.

On the other hand, I will have to say that there's grace in the assumption that our team was filled with out-of-zoners. Perception is reality, right? When you have an elite wrestler like Casey who transfers, it's hard not to wonder if several other wrestlers might have been transfers also. Truth is, though, almost all of our team came straight up through McMurray Middle and into Overton, with those two schools being the only place we had experienced wrestling prior to high school. It's really a miracle that we were as competitive as we were. We didn't have the resources and weren't in the bedroom community culture to build a strong kids club (i.e. we tried but it slowly faded into a club run by and for private school and suburban kids because we didn't have the parent support to pull it off). Those were amazing years and I look back on it as a high honor to have been a part of it. It's just sad that we can't find ways to overcome the cultural barriers and see urban schools perform more competitively.

Who were the "many" out of zoners? Not trying to pick a fight but I was on that team and Casey Brewster, me and my brother were the only ones out of zone and I didn't participate in State anyway after Casey dropped weight. Just want to make sure we are working with the facts. Here was the lineup that year going into duals and individuals: 103: Casey Brewster (Out of Zone) 112: Tim Drinkwine (Out of Zone) 119: Ethen Elzen (In Zone) 125: Dwayne Jenner (In Zone) 130: Brian Larimer (In Zone) 135: Ed Clay (In Zone) 140: Clyde Clemons (In Zone) 145: Derrick Jordan (In Zone) 152: Eric Jordan (In Zone) 160: Eric Simpson (In Zone) 171: Bobby Lee (In Zone) 189: Robby Lee (In Zone) 215: Eric Covington (In Zone) Hwt: Will Hadden (In Zone) Also, on a side note, myself and my siblings did not go to Overton for wrestling. We were already going to Overton cluster schools for a decade before my brother Timothy ended up there. Wrestling was a thrill for us, but was not the primary purpose.

Send me an email at briandrinkwine@gmail.com with some contact info and details about you. I recently moved back to Nashville from Arizona and I'm currently talking to a couple schools about coaching. Hoping to build a killer program and would seriously benefit from some great help.

Hey guys, I recently moved back to TN after 5 years in Arizona where I was helping with a few local high schools and when I got here a few months ago, I didn't even know that the change to a new large school/small school divisions. It wasn't until I got on CoachT a few weeks ago that I even realized what had taken place. Anyway, I know that sweeping changes like this one incur a lot of opposition and sometimes can really upset the apple cart. Any major change is bound to cause a lot of questions, if not objections, and a change like this one is no exception. I remember when I was in high school at Overton in the late 90s, TSSAA was just then implementing the change to a split between financial aid giving schools and those who don't give financial aid to athletes, what we know today as D-I and D-II. At that time, it was a heated debate, and I really can't recall anyone "winning" in that debate. In certain conversations, I remember people getting so heated over the idea that they would start name calling and insults. Now, more than 15 years later, the TSSAA has decided to split the Division I into two divisions, a large school and small school division, for the individual state tournaments. It's no surprise, given our history, why there has been some heated discussions that I've personally witnessed. That said, I'd like to offer an alternative perspective, particularly that this change is not all good, but it's not all bad either. Here's my reasoning, and you can let me know what you think... It's not all good. One of the first things I've heard at the last couple wrestling events I've gone to is that any split "waters down" the sport. I think I agree, at least to a point. At the end of the season, wrestlers are left wondering if they are truly "the best," measuring up each other and challenging the legitimacy of each other's titles or medals. I think this is the obvious negative effect that nobody wants, but everyone agrees is there. It's not all bad, either. The flip side of all of this is what splitting the division does for the small schools. I know that some people will say that it "evens the playing field." Well, I'm not sure if it does that, at least for the wrestlers. However, something I noticed when I was living in Arizona, a state with several divisions, is that when they split wrestling into smaller chunks, it made the smaller schools more desirable to coach. You see, prior to their split into enrollment-based classifications, the best coaches didn't pursue jobs at the smaller schools. In fact, they would outright avoid them. Obviously, if you're a skilled and experienced coach with an ambitious mentality, you will find the school that offers you the greatest opportunity for fielding a team that maximizes possibilities on multiple fronts: (1) talent and athleticism, (2) experience, (3) quality students, and (4) bodies in the room. That last part, bodies in the room, is what prevents great coaches to going to small schools, because at the end of the season, they will feel like they are at a disadvantage. Now, one can certainly say that the coach lacks guts or doesn't "believe in the kids," but the truth is that the experienced coach is probably just thinking practically. After all, who wants to face an uphill battle that isn't necessary, when there's a giant school right down the road? But with a separate division, the experienced coach now feels like they aren't competing with the same numbers difference. Why is this a good thing? Simple. In Arizona, my experience, and what I was told by other coaches, was that the smaller school divisions attracted excellent coaches AFTER the divisions were implemented, making those schools suddenly more competitive. I believe this is one "upside" to the divided classifications and my hope is that the smaller schools will see an uptick in quality wrestling. Then again, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Glad to be back in Tennessee. Hope to see many of you soon! Brian Drinkwine