Dogstar

Red Bank jumped out to an early lead and led at half time by 12. Red Bank never trailed until about 1.5 minutes left in the game and had to come back to tie to put the game into overtime. Soddy Daisy and Red Bank traded baskets (2 and 3 point) but Red Bank could only tie and never lead again. Records RB 9-1 (0-1 District) Soddy Daisy 7-4 (2-1 District)

Just stopped by for a moment. All this talk about recruiting. You all do know that public schools recruit too don't you. I've taught in public schools for over 15 years and I've see it done. Memphis public schools get in trouble every once in a while for recruiting. Just thought I'd mention that since all I'm hearing is that only private schools recruit.

As I, you. Next week.

I only named a few schools that came to mind. After this week I will do more research and try to give you a better response. I don't have the time to do adequate job researching the data. I really thought you would understand that I was just giving a few examples and not a final report. I did notice that one region in 1A is mostly private schools but I have not had time to see if that matters or not. See you next week.

So you would use a sledge hammer to kill an ant? You would revise an entire system because ONE team from a small school could beat the a big school. That is not a statistical response, that is an emotional response. I suspect that there are a couple of small public schools that could pull off the same feat. Can't stay to debate. Will hoin in next week when I have the time. Just took a break and decided to read latest postings.

Ok good data. Now do it for the public schools in those same classes that would have moved up if the roles were reversed. Do it for Alcoa, Maryville, Trousdale, Melrose, etc. I bet they also have outstanding records vs the competition and they might even have a good record against the private schools. How is it that Public schools Trousdale with 6 titles, Maryville with 9 titles, Alcoa with 7 titles to name three are not considered to have an advantage while Private Schools David Lipscomb with 2 titles, DCA with 3 titles and FRA 1 title to name three have an advantage. Please explain what the advantages are? To be honest I don't have time right now to get that indepth because the semester is about over and I'm preparing my last week of class material and the final exam. So this is my last post but I do plan on reading your reply. I will try to do a through research project on all the data an see where it takes me. However you cannot ignore the split because that is where this all began. Also ND and Catholic were moved up by the multiplier even though they just joined so their record against public schools should have been included. I know Catholics would support your side and I believe ND for the last two years also supports your argument.

Privates had to become dominant pre split for the split to happen so let's see. 1996 State Football Champions 3 Private, 2 Public 1995 State Football Champions 3 Private, 2 Public 1994 State Football Champions 1 Private, 4 Public 1993 State Football Champions 0 Private, 5 Public 1992 State Football Champions 0 Private, 3 Public* 1991 State Football Champions 2 Private, 1 Public* 1990 State Football Champions 0 Private, 3 Public* *1990-1992 there were only three classes Class 1A from 1996 to 1990: DCA, BGA, South Pittsburg. Trousdale, Onida, FRA, Trousdale Class 2A from 1996 to 1990: Webb, Goodpasture, David Lipscomb, Sweetwater, Marion County, Brentwood Academy, Marion County. Class 3A from 1996 to 1990: Melrose, Marion County, Marion County, Springfield, Gallatin, Oak Ridge, Lincoln County. Class 4A from 1996 to 1993: Pearl Cohn, Cleveland, Cleveland, Cleveland Class 5A from 1996 to 1993: Brentwood Academy, Brentwood Academy, Riverdale, Lincoln County So from 1990 to 1996 Privat schools won 9 State Football Championships and Public won 20. Privat schools won 3 Class 1A titles during that time, 4 Class 2A titles, 0 Class 3A titles, 0 Class 4A titles, and 2 Class 5A titles Multiple titles: Class 1A: Trousdale Class 2A: Marion County Class 3A: Marion County Class 4A: Cleveland Class 5A: Brentwood Academy I've had to do research projects in the past and if I based my reason for the split on the dominanace of Private over Public 3 to 2 from 95 to 96 my professors would fail me. Is the multliplier working? I don't know because it is based on a perceived advantage that ALL private schools have. All private schools do not have that advantage. Why are there so many private schools in class 1A and Class 2A. I'm guessing and have no facts to back itup, but I bet they don't give athletic scholarships so that the famlies pay to have their students go to the private school. If they can afford to do that then what makes everyone think that those athletes were going to the local public school anyway. It costs the family to not use the free public education so what is the advantage of the private school over the public. Most private schools that have the state of the art facilities do still give scholarships and so don't play in the public arena. Again with the exception of Brentwood Academy, public schools have dominated championship play. And before you start with yea but look at head to head after the split between DI and DII, private schools lost their scholarship limits and could give more financial aid after the split so the privates that could afford it gave more scholarships and got more athletes than they used to. Almost forgot. If the multiplier was aimed at 1A only I might see your point but it was aimed at all classes. Also what are you going to do about that select few Public schools ie Riverdale, Maryville, Alcoa, and Trousdale that seem to have some kind of advantage because they dominant more than any one Privat school? I am not being negative toward those schools but the purpose of the multiplier is to even the playing field but its ignoring those public school. Your argument that the Privates have become domonant also works on those schools.

Then you missed the point too. I analyzed from 1969 to present and out of all that you only focus on 1A and 2A. Last time I checked, no one was distinguishing between classes in the public/private debate. Again, with the exception of Brentwood Academy, I have not found a single Private program that has dominated public schools in Tennessee as far as winning state championships. Records indicate that some Public schools have dominated since 1969 both before and after the split regardless of classification. Apparently the information in the rest of the original post can't be discussed as you did not even mention it. Pre split there was no multiplier.

My analysis went from 1969 to present and the ONLY thing you focused on was there were no privates in Class 3A, 4A, 5A since the split? OK Class 1A: The single most dominant team Trousdale, Class 2A: The single most dominant team Alcoa. Both are public and Trousdale may have won more if they had not left 1A for a while. I am disappointed that that is all you could focus on.

I posted this on another thread: Just some information about football championships in this public/private debate. If I read TSSAA records site correctly since 1969 until the split there were about 92 State Championships in football. If my count is correct 68 championships were won by public schools and 24 were won by private schools. With the exception of Brentwood Academy (9) no private school won more than two during that time frame. DCA and Webb are the two schools. Also during that same time frame 15 public schools won two or more championships. Alcoa (4), Marion (4), Oak Ridge (4), Cleveland (3), Gallatin (3), Lincoln (3), Loudon (3), Maryville (3), Sweetwater (3), Trousdale (3), Austin East (2), Lake County (2), Milan (2), South Pittsburg (2), Tennessee High (2). Twenty-five public schools have won one football state championship while 11 private schools accomplished that same feat during this time frame. I don't include post split because,the issue seems to be that public schools cannot compete with private schools. I remember when the spilt happened because I was coaching at a public school at that time and the head football coach hated private schools.There were two in particular, because their ALUMNI Associations were actively recruiting some of his potential players. I asked how these people could recruit legally and I was told that TSSAA could not regulate Alumni Associations. Somehow the idea had gotten around that if public and private schools split the recruiting would stop. In fact, it got worse because the scholarship player participation limit no longer applied. To add to it. Since split in 1997 there have been 45 State Football Championships in the Public sector. Private Schools have won 8 with most being in Class 1A (5 in 1A and 3 in 2A) Two Private schools have won more than one state championship in the Public realm since the split, Goodpasture (2) and CPA (2). Four other Private schools have won one each. The Public schools have won 37 State Football Championships since the split. Public has won all of the Class 3A, 4A, and 5A Championships (27) and 10 of the Class 1A (4 in Class 1A and 6 in Class 2A). Six Public schools have won more than 2 State Football Championships. Maryville (6), Alcoa (3), Riverdale (3), Trousdale (3), Fulton (2), Milan (2). Eighteen Public Schools have won one State Football Championship since the split. Except for Class 1A from 2000 to 2004 when private schools won that class state championship, i can't find any time the Private schools have dominated the public schools in State Football Championship games.I find that Trousdale won 3 of the 4 1A state football titles during that time and I understand they left to a higher classification for a while so I don't know if they could have won more. I understand they did well in Class 3A, was it? I don't know which class they moved to and I don't think it matters nor the why. I do find that of the 37State Football Championships won by the Public schools 19 have been won by 6 Public Schools. The multliper did what it was suppose to do. Private schools have an unfair advantage over Public schools. The playing field has been leveled. I don't understand these comments. Except for a 5 year period in 1A I can't find the dominance since the split and before the split Brentwood Academy, a 1A size school playing in 5A, was the only Private school dominanting and they were playing up already so the multiplier would have had no effect. Well I've spent too much time already on this subject. I have an exam to prepare for my Public school students. Do what you want with this information. I am not trying to make a point but a lot of people have been saying things so I decided to look up the information on the TSSAA web site and the above is what I found. If I were to make a prediction for next year I would be willing to bet that Trousdale, Alcoa, Maryville, and Riverdale are the odds on favorite to win the State Football Championships in their classification next year.

Nope I meant alumni association. Group associated with one school sends out letters to star athletes in middl school trying to get them to go to their particular school. I've seen the letter. One individual from the other group with ties to the other school even had cards printed up that identified him as a recruiting coordinator. It was reported but since their connection was not direct to the school nothing could be done. Not complaining just stating.

Just some information about football championships in this public/private debate. If I read TSSAA records site correctly since 1969 until the split there were about 92 State Championships in football. If my count is correct 68 championships were won by public schools and 24 were won by private schools. With the exception of Brentwood Academy (9) no private school won more than two during that time frame. DCA and Webb are the two schools. Also during that same time frame 15 public schools won two or more championships. Alcoa (4), Marion (4), Oak Ridge (4), Cleveland (3), Gallatin (3), Lincoln (3), Loudon (3), Maryville (3), Sweetwater (3), Trousdale (3), Austin East (2), Lake County (2), Milan (2), South Pittsburg (2), Tennessee High (2). Twenty-five public schools have won one football state championship while 11 private schools accomplished that same feat during this time frame. I don't include post split because,the issue seems to be that public schools cannot compete with private schools. I remember when the spilt happened because I was coaching at a public school at that time and the head football coach hated private schools.There were two in particular, because their ALUMNI Associations were actively recruiting some of his potential players. I asked how these people could recruit legally and I was told that TSSAA could not regulate Alumni Associations. Somehow the idea had gotten around that if public and private schools split the recruiting would stop. In fact, it got worse because the scholarship player participation limit no longer applied. I don't really have a point to make and I've spent too much time away from my lesson plan preparation already. Just thought I would through this information out there. I think its accurate as far as it goes but I will not be offenede if any mistakes are found.

With football season over I had decided to leave the boards for awhile but I feel I need to respon to this. First, I went to a parochial school which, by definition, is private as they charged a tuition. I have also taught and coached many sports in public schools for 15 years. That said, I want to address your arguments. I have met many professionals from different sports giving their time to public schools as coaches over the years. Yes some of them were professional football players. I know because I've coached against a few of them that you do not have to be a teacher in the school or school system to even be a head coach of a sport, including football. The idea that these former professional players are going to private schools for the money is silly. No private school could afford them. Second, I HAVE seen weight rooms in a few public and private schools. It might shock you to know that there are public schools out there with better facilities than many of the private schools because what you are ignoring is that most of the private schools are parochial or church supported schools, and only a few of them can afford state of the art facilities. I have SEEN personally weight room facilities in a few public schools that would make many private schools envious. As I said, I have taught and coached in public schools for 15 years, To say private schools have an advantage over public by parents being better able to afford to send their kids to individual instruction cannot be made as a blanket statement. I have seen many a public school athlete go to multiple camps every summer both individual and team and their parents write the check. I will finish with this comment. At basketball camp one summer a coach explained how a team had 4 starters on the state champion team that had played at other schools in their school system the year before. He said they were eligible to play because the school system had OPEN ENROLLMENT and that allowed athletes to transfer within the system without having to sit out for a year. I still don't fully understand how that works but I remember a few years ago a public school SYSTEM put on probation by TSSAA for recruiting violations. I think your real issue is that rural and urban schools have a hard time keeping up with surburban public schools. Do not expect me to respond to any comments as I will only occasionally look in on coacht for the next few months. I'm just too busy.

From ND alumni, congradulations LA. You earned it. Enjoy.

Congrats to the players and coaches of LA and good luck at state. Some of your fans, like the boy who mooned the ND player buses coming in, need to learn how to show some class. The players and coaches from LA showed great class and determination. Again, great game great effort and I hope you take the state.

I only have so much time too. So I guess we both can't be thorough enough can we. I have never initiated numbers on this posting. I only responded to people posting numbers to show that anybody can find numbers to make their side look good. I can put ND footballplayers numbers up too. I can point out how many point the defense has allowed vs opponents by both teams and how many points each team has scored. I can compare records. All sorts of numbers. I can point out that a 2-8 team that made the playoffs on the last day beat a 10-0 team in AAA in the first round. MY point is numbers don't matter at this point. They are in the past. The only thing that matters is who wants it most Friday and that is up to the players not us. I expect a great game Friday but predicting the outcome is beyond my ability. Football is called a game of inches for a reason.

I agree the game is the thing but you should not have picked Chattanooga Central for your example as Chattanooga Central, public school, beat Notre Dame for 49 consecutive games before Notre Dame won one. And speaking of zones, Notre Dame is part of a school system that includes Knox. Catholic and the system even has a superintendent. So maybe Notre Dame should be upset because Chattanooga Central beat them with a star running back from their zone? Just another view point.

Assumed you were the post on page 14 that posted numbers at 2:52 pm. I assumed that since I was sure if it was not you that you would read the quote I based it on/ But since you did not it was by kick4point at 2:52 pm and can befound on page 14 in a reply. If your going to go back and check input be more thorough.

That was in response that ND played a team that finished the regular season 5-5 and I know they finished 0-1 as I'm sure you know that the final score was ND 39, Macon 0. So What. Funny. LA fans only accept numbers that look good for LA and ignore numbers that don't. And to think, an LA fan started the numbers war. Well I'm not going to waste anymore time on this because I really don't care. I'm watching a replay of the GT victory over Miami and I bet that Miami played a tougher schedule than GT but in the end it did not matter because on this day Georgia Tech won. If they played tomorrow Miami might have won. Who knows?

One other thing. I did not use regular season records to first prove my point.

Strength + success ND 1 LA 10 My point is we could do this all night. It all means nothing. The only numbers that matter will be determined Friday night. People play football games not numbers. Football has sometimes been called a game of inches. You want to bring up numbers. I'm just showing you that it works both ways. The football players will settle the debate Friday. Just remember you brought up numbers.

York Institute, 4-7 record, Strength rating 40. Forget someone?

Strength of Schedule Carter - 57 Catholic - 22 Macon - 7 Pearl Cohn - 46 You won by 3 vs Carter and by the way there are only 57 teams in AAA. forget this strength of schedule. It doesn't matter. Anyway didn't you finish the season at 5-5 like Macon?

Notre Dame High School was founded in 1875. Go figure. Notre Dame fans HAVE NOT disparaged either the HOGEYE or BDP that I am aware of. People posting on this site who think ND will win have but I have not found any that are actually a part of ND doing so. Just to let you know that when I went to ND over 30 years ago IRISH PRIDE was in place and had been in place since befor my father graduated from there in the early 40's. We, the ND alumni do understand other schools brand of PRIDE and TRADITION. However you have acted like we coulsn't possibly understand because we couldn't possible understand tradition and pride in our school. Our school is 130 years old with many generations from the same families attending. I hope you understand us a little better now. We don't have to copy the university. We have always had our own traditions. Now let's get ready to play football. This isn't trash talk from LA?

I'd like to know more about your team. I know that Wilson Cates is as good a football player as you will find anywhere. You might say exceptional and I won't disagree. But I would like to know more about your other players. I know they run hard and tackle with authority because I've read that. But how about some stats. Yards per carry. Tackles per game. I'm not asking for a breakdown of the offense but I'd like to read some subjective information about the othe players because I can't find any information about them anywhere.