MillsHalf

Walkenvol, Point well taken. But I think many wrestlers would say "I placed third, which helped my team place first, second, etc." Every ex-wrestler knows the value of coming back through consolations to help the team. I've heard coaches at some of the premier tourneys in the state (McCallie, Ryan, Black Horse) tell their kids to keep fighting through consolations to get team points.

W, I think we can agree to disagree on this one. I respect your view on the 3 divisions for duals. I most certainly agree that all venues need to be able to accommodate the event. A 3 division event would take the Duals out of Clarksville. We'd need to use a college/university gym. I disagree with your distinctions on the traditional tourney. Although, if it could reunite the event, I could be persuaded.

BB, I don't dispute everything Coach L states. I would take exception to the issue about one collegiate division. DIII student-athletes typically go to schools that don't offer athletic scholarships. Those kids got into college on their academic performance; athletics is a co-curricular for them (not a primary focus). It's understandable that they would be separated. One reason (among many) why the U of Wisconsin doesn't compete with Ripon College. The argument following this post is that DII schools in TN give "athletic scholarships." I don't buy it. That topic has been beaten to death the last year and half on this board so I hope I'm not opening up a can of worms. (Believe me, I don't plan on starting a new thread on that dead subject.) Until someone starts listing names of students, dollar amounts, and tangible evidence that kids are getting paid for athletics, I won't buy it. I continue to believe that too many divisions dilutes the product. I also think our sport differs from football and basketball (where there are many divisions). Nonetheless, I can appreciate the arguments of the schools and coaches advocating that arrangement.

Other than Irishdad, doesn't anyone think Ryan has a legitimate shot? They have horses (Dunning, Hiller, Stark, Myers, Lomas) who are all state finalists. They have some quality kids who could pull minor upsets (Oddo, Mondelli, Clark, Mayo). I just don't see this event has an all-Chattanooga final.

TD42, Couldn't agree more. I wasn't in state for long before the split came. Didn't see the last two united tournaments but friends described exciting events to me. I've seen united tournaments work. Too many tournaments dilutes the product.

Texas, Agreed. Until a team beats some of the best teams in their division, they can't expect higher seeds at the State Duals. Papbear-If CBHS beats the top team from either the Nashville or Chattanooga regions, they would deserve to be separated from the top seed from the other region. I would even venture to say that a Purple Wave victory over FR or Mc should send the top seed from the East or Middle out of the West's pool. Do you face the top team from the East or Middle before the season is out? You acknowledged what has to happen: You have to beat the best.

I hadn't thought of the state tournament. Good point. So what's the solution?

In high school, a coin toss determines who gets choice in the second period. (When captains choose odd or even). So if a first period ends 0-0, it was the luck of the coin toss that gave one of the wrestlers choice. He takes down and gets an escape, thus the first "action points." I don't see how that is much different from a coin toss for choice in the 30 sec 2nd OT.

SP, Good idea for discussion. I like the current system. If the match ends in a tie, one minute on your feet can lead to an exciting finish if both men work hard for the TD. Puts a premium on good work from neutral and I think coaches respond to that. The sudden victory part works also. I could be happy with a coin toss, rather than first points, being the deciding factor for choice in the 30 sec. 2nd OT.

I agree with the good Dr. Tex-Just expressing my view that we're beating a dead horse.

Can someone bring this thread to a merciful end?

DelaWarrr, I may not agree with your other posts, but that was impressive research. I'm convinced by your work here.

Isn't Cornell in the EIWA? What a great choice for him, both academically and athletically. Penn, Lehigh, Harvard, and Army are in that conference. Wow. What an accomplishment. Congratulations to Jordan.

CBG, You're right. This tournament goes nowhere with out RC's approval.

Coach Masters, Do you have the DI and DII coaches on board yet? I think this tournament would get off the ground much faster if you had the endorsement of the coaches. Wrestlers would be more likely to want to attend if their coach supported the concept. Have you contacted some of the leading coaches (Logsdon, Connell, Morgan, Henry, Hill, Miller, Simpson, Simpson to name a few) to see about the viability of the event?

What were some of the places of other notables? Who placed 3rd and 4th? Where did Clarksville finish? Kenwood?

Why didn't the Marable brothers compete? My guess is that the CBHS score would have been much higher with them in the mix.

Is it a complete blind draw? Wow! That could pit some excellent teams against eachother very early. Should be exciting. Can't wait to see some of the action.

Are the schools matched up/seeded yet for the Kenwood Duals? I know this is a competitive tournament. It would be good to know the match ups. Can't make it for the whole tournament but would like to see some contests. I bet there are others in the same boat as me.

Pokey, Great post. Let's not forget that his behavior sent a message to younger wrestlers who were bystanders to his explosion last year. If such an outburst goes unpunished, or worse yet, is not addressed by the coaches of younger wrestlers, our sport will continue to see such shameful behavior in the future. Every coach who witnessed his tirade should have had a heart-to-heart with their team after that. There were many more good examples of character demonstrated at the tournament. I know Scooter is a kid. Kids make mistakes. Let's try to ensure that those aren't repeated.

The Ryan Tournament always has good competition.

KKW, Not a Ryan fan or wrestler; just a fan of good wrestling. I do admire the work Pat Simpson does with his team. And FR certainly has some great athletes. But I also have seen other great coaches/teams, DI and DII.

HBK, Clarksville couldn't have placed in the top 5 at the Ryan Invitational. They couldn't have made it into the finals of the Rossview Duals, regardless of who they wrestled in the semis. They won't be in the finals of the State Duals. Maybe they'll have a return to glory when they start wrestling a more competitive schedule (ie Ryan Tourn.)

Cornpop, While not a Ryan supporter, I think you have it wrong. Ryan runs from no one. They have one of the toughest schedules in Middle TN. Look at the tournaments they have on their schedule. McCallie, Mater Dei, and their own. Unlike what you suggest, they don't dismiss wrestling Clarksville as "just a DI school." They wrestle the best competition they can find. Also, are you suggesting that all of those fans in purple travel to MBA and Ryan to NOT see their team win? From what I have seen in years past, they and the wrestlers are happy when they beat (and disappointed when they lose to) DII schools.

there is a thread below that covers them.