It's not just about scoring

[BigG]

Okay, I can't resist, first of all I am not a fan of padding stats against weak teams, however at some point it falls on the Coach and girls or boys of the Losing team to care enough about the game to do better. I know I will catch heat from some for saying this, but let me explain why I have this theory.

 

I played Soccer in High School due to going to a Small Private School that didn't have the funds for football after a couple years. Our Schools first 2 Seasons in soccer we got our butts handed to us, it was sickening (fortunately that was the year before my class started High School). Several of the remaing players on the team and our incoming freshmen class were very competitive by nature and had a meeting about the State of our Soccer program. We all decided if this was the sport we had, then we were going to learn how to play well enough to be Competitive and win the State Championship, which we did in 1980 and 1981.

 

That Summer we went to a Soccer Camp, and there happened to be a guest there who spoke often about his love of the game, and The Beautiful Game----yes it was Pele. His speeches, caring and instructional help for each and everyone of the Campers, taught us alot, most importantly, to never quit fighting on the pitch, never quit trying to improve our game, always know that it is a team sport (hence why I don't like the padding of individuals stats), and you have to work hard always if you want to be the best.

 

I say all this, because there was 2 teams that would put a big number of goals up against us, our Freshmen year, and we never forgot it, or Pele's words. Our Junior and Senior year we beat them like they beat us and even did it to them in basketball. What I am trying to get across is, no it is not real nice to spank a team by double-digit goals, but it is the Nature of Sports in general---look at College Football. Instead of us saying it is not good Sportsmanship, how about we go to work and encourage our kids to continue to work hard, or even harder. Maybe turn about will happen one day, I know we enjoyed beating them by 12 goals our junior and senior years, and beating them by an average of 60 points per game in Basketball those 2 years also!

 

Wow! I am jealous! I always wanted to hear him speak. I'll bet it was awesome!

 

You mind me asking what high school you went to?

[SoccerDaughters]

Big G,

 

Ask them, I assume you know who they are, my understanding is it was simply agreed upon by the two coaches.

[ws6transam30]

Wow! I am jealous! I always wanted to hear him speak. I'll bet it was awesome!

 

You mind me asking what high school you went to?

 

 

It was in Lansing,Michigan, BigG, and yes I am a darn Yankee and proud of it, lol.

[BUtifulGame]

The greatest comeback I have witnessed was a 3-0 lead, turn to a 4-3 victory for the opposing squad.

 

What was the greatest comeback you have witnessed (not heard about).

 

 

While not a High School game, this past summer I witnessed a team of "players to watch" in TN HS soccer in the comming years. In the Division 1 State Cup final, the u14 team out of Chattanooga battled back from 3 goals down at the half to tie the game in regulation and won 4-3 in OT against a very strong team out of Memphis. It was an exciting display of determination and skill by some very talented girls. The game drew nearly everyone at the complex over to watch. I travel nationwide to watch soccer and TN youth soccer has not yet begun to make a mark, however, if that game is any indication of Tennesee's soccer future - it is finally moving in the right direction.

[BigG]

It was in Lansing,Michigan, BigG, and yes I am a darn Yankee and proud of it, lol.

 

I played my high school ball in Delaware (which definitely isn't Michican, but can be considered a reformed Yankee)! Thankfully, I am in "God's country" now, though!

[Canesoverhere]

While not a High School game, this past summer I witnessed a team of "players to watch" in TN HS soccer in the comming years. In the Division 1 State Cup final, the u14 team out of Chattanooga battled back from 3 goals down at the half to tie the game in regulation and won 4-3 in OT against a very strong team out of Memphis. It was an exciting display of determination and skill by some very talented girls. The game drew nearly everyone at the complex over to watch. I travel nationwide to watch soccer and TN youth soccer has not yet begun to make a mark, however, if that game is any indication of Tennesee's soccer future - it is finally moving in the right direction.

 

Saw that game. in as far as this post goes, that was a great game a great comeback and was in fact, the largest comeback I have watched. The difference there? "Two" competitive teams. Even at 5-0, do you think the team could overcome that? I don't.

[BUtifulGame]

Saw that game. in as far as this post goes, that was a great game a great comeback and was in fact, the largest comeback I have watched. The difference there? "Two" competitive teams. Even at 5-0, do you think the team could overcome that? I don't.

 

 

You are right - that is the crux of the point I was trying to make. These two teams were very evenly matched. I don't think they could have come back from a 5 goal differential, but that would imply that they would have allowed another 2 goals. I don't believe that would have happened either. This string of converstaion illustrates the inherent problem with the HS soccer district competition set up. Good soccer requires that teams be evenly matched. Until all areas of the state embrace youth soccer skill development more heartily, you will continue to see huge disparity on the score board. Teams with a preponderance of club team (select) players will outmatch teams whose players play only school season.

[Canesoverhere]

You are right - that is the crux of the point I was trying to make. These two teams were very evenly matched. I don't think they could have come back from a 5 goal differential, but that would imply that they would have allowed another 2 goals. I don't believe that would have happened either. This string of converstaion illustrates the inherent problem with the HS soccer district competition set up. Good soccer requires that teams be evenly matched. Until all areas of the state embrace youth soccer skill development more heartily, you will continue to see huge disparity on the score board. Teams with a preponderance of club team (select) players will outmatch teams whose players play only school season.

 

Perhaps that is where the difference actually starts? Those teams either predominantly constructed of premier club level players or those coached by the same see no sport in running up the score on a less fortunate term. Those less fortunate to have the number of club players or coaches trained as similar seem to actually find sport in running up the score. Hence, there are several frequent offenders.

 

The point I was trying to illustrate, thanks for picking it up and validating it, was that even when two of the highest caliber teams match up, surviving a 3-0 comeback is almost improbable with the best team, 4-0? nope. Bottom line? When you are up 4-0. 5-0 in the first half, the "game" is over. Any additional scoring warrants the question why. There remains only two benefits to this and they have either already been stated in this thread or implied, neither of which seem to be considered by most as "good soccer".

[manofsteel]

Perhaps that is where the difference actually starts? Those teams either predominantly constructed of premier club level players or those coached by the same see no sport in running up the score on a less fortunate term. Those less fortunate to have the number of club players or coaches trained as similar seem to actually find sport in running up the score. Hence, there are several frequent offenders.

 

The point I was trying to illustrate, thanks for picking it up and validating it, was that even when two of the highest caliber teams match up, surviving a 3-0 comeback is almost improbable with the best team, 4-0? nope. Bottom line? When you are up 4-0. 5-0 in the first half, the "game" is over. Any additional scoring warrants the question why. There remains only two benefits to this and they have either already been stated in this thread or implied, neither of which seem to be considered by most as "good soccer".

 

 

Well said Canes.

[BigG]

Again, GREAT debate here...

 

Wanted to thank the coach that I just got off the phone with for reminding me of some of the things that I have said before about it being easy to mis-judge a game by the score if one isn't actually there at the game. I have learned in my years of coaching that things occur outside of your control that affect the game in so many ways, and a lot of those reasons don't make it on the boards (for obvious reasons... the general public probably doesn't need to know them).

 

My hats off to you coach. You showed a heck of a lot of class giving me a call, and I truly enjoyed the conversation, and will miss seeing you on the sidelines (in an official capacity!). Let me know if there is anything more I can do for you. Sorry to put you in that spot.

[Bean0007]

Dang /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" /> I've been 'baited' into agreeing with Canes. Good thread and an apparent excellent summation. But now that begs the question, does anything NEED to be done about the runaway scores, or is it just business as usual?

[h2odog]

Dang /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" /> I've been 'baited' into agreeing with Canes. Good thread and an apparent excellent summation. But now that begs the question, does anything NEED to be done about the runaway scores, or is it just business as usual?

 

 

This is an annual debate on T. However, this year it has been done with a lot more thought and a lot less anger. It will never end, unless a rule (mercy like) is put in place. The players move on every year and the only constants are the coaches and rules. It's obvious some coaches do not want to delete high scores from their play books. Look at the Memphis box scores from yesterday. We had a 9-0 and a 8-0. Both teams that won are teams that get beat the same way. I know the 2 wrongs thing, but I don't think they are going to change their ways until they get better players that let them move their game to another level.