When should a ref stop play for an injury ?

[CHAMPDDS]

Okay, ChattanoogaCannon and I were having a discussion at last night's game regarding when it is appropriate for a ref to stop play for an 'injury' (?) (and it is a slow day at the office right now..)...The issue was a player gets a pretty good ball to the face from a close kick on a cold night, obviously is feeling pain from it, but play continued a bit until the ball was in control of the keeper a few moments later...the hurt player never took a knee, but the ref stopped the game (clock) to ascertain her condition...My argument is that unless the player indicates a need for stoppage and injury assessment by actually going down to the ground-'taking a knee'..then the ref was incorrect to stop play...I understand that the argument may be that the ref is looking out for the well being of the players, I am compassionate about that aspect, my point is that the ref needs a sign from the involved player that she is indeed hurt...plenty of players play though some pain from a shin kick, ball to the gut, etc....and play continues...

 

Any thoughts CoachT refs ?

 

Along these same lines...if the player is hurt enough to stop play, but then magically pops back to full speed... are there any 'rules' regarding that player being required to leave the field temporarily, like FIFA ?

 

Thanks

 

D

Edited November 5, 2010 by CHAMPDDS

[greeneville2012]

Okay, ChattanoogaCannon and I were having a discussion at last night's game regarding when it is appropriate for a ref to stop play for an 'injury' (?) (and it is a slow day at the office right now..)...The issue was a player gets a pretty good ball to the face from a close kick on a cold night, obviously is feeling pain from it, but play continued a bit until the ball was in control of the keeper a few moments later...the hurt player never took a knee, but the ref stopped the game (clock) to ascertain her condition...My arguement is that unless the player indicates a need for stoppage and injury assessment by actually going down to the ground-'taking a knee'..then the ref was incorrect to stop play...I understand that the argument may be that the ref is looking out for the well being of the players, I am compassionate about that aspect, my point is that the ref needs a sign from the involved player that she is indeed hurt...plenty of players play though some pain from a shin kick, ball to the gut, etc....and play continues...

 

Any thoughts CoachT refs ?

 

Along these same lines...if the player is hurt enought to stop play, but then magically pops back to full speed... is there any 'rules' regarding that player being required to leave the field temporarily, like FIFA ?

 

Thanks

to answer your first question Champ the referees purpose is to maintain control of the game and look out for the well-being of the players while it may not be "by the book" we're talking about high school soccer not FIFA so if a player appears to be hurt then the referee will most likely check on them however i would not stop play for an injury unless the player went down and to answer your second question as far as i know TSSAA does not have a rule requiring a player to come off after an injury

D

[BigG]

I believe if he stops the clock, and the coach and trainer are called onto the field, the player must come out. He/she can come back in at the next opportunity.

[ChattanoogaCannon]

Okay, ChattanoogaCannon and I were having a discussion at last night's game regarding when it is appropriate for a ref to stop play for an 'injury' (?) (and it is a slow day at the office right now..)...The issue was a player gets a pretty good ball to the face from a close kick on a cold night, obviously is feeling pain from it, but play continued a bit until the ball was in control of the keeper a few moments later...the hurt player never took a knee, but the ref stopped the game (clock) to ascertain her condition...My argument is that unless the player indicates a need for stoppage and injury assessment by actually going down to the ground-'taking a knee'..then the ref was incorrect to stop play...I understand that the argument may be that the ref is looking out for the well being of the players, I am compassionate about that aspect, my point is that the ref needs a sign from the involved player that she is indeed hurt...plenty of players play though some pain from a shin kick, ball to the gut, etc....and play continues...

 

Any thoughts CoachT refs ?

 

Along these same lines...if the player is hurt enough to stop play, but then magically pops back to full speed... are there any 'rules' regarding that player being required to leave the field temporarily, like FIFA ?

 

Thanks

 

D

 

As socref has made me painfully aware, I am by no means an expert on the Laws of the Game, especially the amendments for high school soccer. In this case, though, there is nothing in the laws that say a player has to take a knee, or that a normal stoppage, like a ball kicked out, has to occur. It is the referee's discretion to stop play if he feels a serious injury has occurred.

[CHAMPDDS]

As socref has made me painfully aware, I am by no means an expert on the Laws of the Game, especially the amendments for high school soccer. In this case, though, there is nothing in the laws that say a player has to take a knee, or that a normal stoppage, like a ball kicked out, has to occur. It is the referee's discretion to stop play if he feels a serious injury has occurred.

 

one hour +...took longer than I thought for a reply...

 

"Serious Injury" definition please...

 

D

Edited November 5, 2010 by CHAMPDDS

[95GSoccer]

Okay, ChattanoogaCannon and I were having a discussion at last night's game regarding when it is appropriate for a ref to stop play for an 'injury' (?) (and it is a slow day at the office right now..)...The issue was a player gets a pretty good ball to the face from a close kick on a cold night, obviously is feeling pain from it, but play continued a bit until the ball was in control of the keeper a few moments later...the hurt player never took a knee, but the ref stopped the game (clock) to ascertain her condition...My argument is that unless the player indicates a need for stoppage and injury assessment by actually going down to the ground-'taking a knee'..then the ref was incorrect to stop play...I understand that the argument may be that the ref is looking out for the well being of the players, I am compassionate about that aspect, my point is that the ref needs a sign from the involved player that she is indeed hurt...plenty of players play though some pain from a shin kick, ball to the gut, etc....and play continues...

 

Any thoughts CoachT refs ?

 

Along these same lines...if the player is hurt enough to stop play, but then magically pops back to full speed... are there any 'rules' regarding that player being required to leave the field temporarily, like FIFA ?

 

Thanks

 

D

 

 

The NFHS rule for an injured player leaving the field, is simply if their coach/trainer enters the field to attend to them.

 

They may return on the next substitutable ball.

 

As for when to stop play, this is completely subjective by the Ref. If at anytime the Ref believes there is a dangerous situation to any player to continue play, play and clock should be stopped, until the Ref determines it is safe to re-start.

 

"Taking a knee" is a common rule of thumb, but not a law of the game. It helps give the referee a visual sign that play needs to stop to consider an injury; but in the case of a ball to the face situation, even if the player doesn't take a knee, if it were violent enough and the Ref sees it occur clearly and up close, might choose to stop play to be sure there isn't a serious injury. Sometimes a concussion will cause players to act irrationally, and their drive and desire to play might cause them to push through going down, even though they might be seriously hurt. So, in a case like this, even though they didn't take a knee, the Ref may have thought from the contact, and from their body-language, that their injury meritted stopping and evaluating their current state.

 

As far as purpose delaying, like kicking it out, etc...the Ref in NFHS cannot 'add time'. What they can do, if they deem purposeful delaying, is stop the clock until the ball is retrieved from it's blast into the next county, and/or caution the player who launched the rocket for unsportsmanship or delay of game.

 

The main difference between FIFA and NFHS in this situation, is that FIFA can add time back, but NFHS cannot; however NFHS can stop time, and allow time to restart when play is begun again, (which if done correctly pretty much can equate to the same result of FIFA adding time). In the end, the Ref can prevent players from "burning the clock" unduely, in both FIFA and NFHS, just via different manners.

[CHAMPDDS]

Makes sense 95GSOCCER...(I just like to counter any Cannon thoughts/statements ).....

 

Good luck Saturday afternoon....we play before you all again !

 

D

[ChattanoogaCannon]

Makes sense 95GSOCCER...(I just like to counter any Cannon thoughts/statements ).....

 

Good luck Saturday afternoon....we play before you all again !

 

D

 

 

You should have learned by now never to argue with me. Isn't this what I told you last night?

 

I hope you give your patients more compassion than opposing players hit in the head with a ball from 2 feet away,

[CHAMPDDS]

You are correct as usual...

[socref1]

Okay, ChattanoogaCannon and I were having a discussion at last night's game regarding when it is appropriate for a ref to stop play for an 'injury' (?) (and it is a slow day at the office right now..)...The issue was a player gets a pretty good ball to the face from a close kick on a cold night, obviously is feeling pain from it, but play continued a bit until the ball was in control of the keeper a few moments later...the hurt player never took a knee, but the ref stopped the game (clock) to ascertain her condition...My argument is that unless the player indicates a need for stoppage and injury assessment by actually going down to the ground-'taking a knee'..then the ref was incorrect to stop play...I understand that the argument may be that the ref is looking out for the well being of the players, I am compassionate about that aspect, my point is that the ref needs a sign from the involved player that she is indeed hurt...plenty of players play though some pain from a shin kick, ball to the gut, etc....and play continues...

 

Any thoughts CoachT refs ?

 

Along these same lines...if the player is hurt enough to stop play, but then magically pops back to full speed... are there any 'rules' regarding that player being required to leave the field temporarily, like FIFA ?

 

Thanks

 

D

This is a very good discussion topic and one that players, coaches, parents, and even refs can share. As a player, I never want play to stop. As a parent, I would like to see my player protected. As a referee, I have to evaluate each situation individually. I believe the correct approach to stopping play is "it depends". In the AYSO, they want referees to stop play regardless, and thus the old "take a knee" comes in to play. For more competitive play, one must weigh the safety for the player, and preserving the game. The default is player safety comes before the game. Period. However with soccer, because it is best viewed without interruption, it is a delicate balance. One thing as a referee I need to be aware is that if I make the wrong decision, there could be a life at stake. A quick answer to "are you ok?" usually tells me a lot. There are situations where the referee should stop play, should not stop play, must stop play and must not stop play. The "should" is sort of the discretion of the referee, for the good of the player and game. The stoppage of play is a referee prerogative, not the players. Law 5 lists referee powers and duties. The referee has the power to stop the game, and the duty to protect players. If the referee in the above example stopped play, one thing to determine in the thought process, "did the player respond?", "is there visible signs of blood and is it a danger to the other players? Referees do not have medical training however this year's Point of Emphasis by TSSAA is the concussion. Blood is another issue. So in the above example, the referee could have used his discretionary power to ascertain whether the player hit in the face with the ball either was bleeding or needed attention. One thing referees are very aware of are players feigning injury behind play to stop an attack.

[ChattanoogaCannon]

This is a very good discussion topic and one that players, coaches, parents, and even refs can share. As a player, I never want play to stop. As a parent, I would like to see my player protected. As a referee, I have to evaluate each situation individually. I believe the correct approach to stopping play is "it depends". In the AYSO, they want referees to stop play regardless, and thus the old "take a knee" comes in to play. For more competitive play, one must weigh the safety for the player, and preserving the game. The default is player safety comes before the game. Period. However with soccer, because it is best viewed without interruption, it is a delicate balance. One thing as a referee I need to be aware is that if I make the wrong decision, there could be a life at stake. A quick answer to "are you ok?" usually tells me a lot. There are situations where the referee should stop play, should not stop play, must stop play and must not stop play. The "should" is sort of the discretion of the referee, for the good of the player and game. The stoppage of play is a referee prerogative, not the players. Law 5 lists referee powers and duties. The referee has the power to stop the game, and the duty to protect players. If the referee in the above example stopped play, one thing to determine in the thought process, "did the player respond?", "is there visible signs of blood and is it a danger to the other players? Referees do not have medical training however this year's Point of Emphasis by TSSAA is the concussion. Blood is another issue. So in the above example, the referee could have used his discretionary power to ascertain whether the player hit in the face with the ball either was bleeding or needed attention. One thing referees are very aware of are players feigning injury behind play to stop an attack.

 

In this case, the referee's actions were all appropriate. A player took a ball to the head on a very hard kick from very close range right in front of him. It was one of those "ooooohhhhh" moments from the crowd. Player was in obvious pain and ref checked on her as play continued. Player did not want to come out, but was in duress though she never left her feet. In the few seconds it took for attack to complete, ref was glancing back at her . Once keeper secured the ball, he stopped play.

Edited November 5, 2010 by ChattanoogaCannon