DIVISION II Traditional Tourney

[ghouse]

Sure we can all say if the seeds hold true, this is how the scores will end up...BUT it's the state TRADITIONAL tournament for crying out loud! You know there will be some upsets as there are every year. After having dissected some of the brackets, here are some key matches to watch out for, as well as my biased Nash-Purple predictions LOL!

 

SNIP

Based on my biased opinions i see this being a two team race. Sorry GHOUSE, that was a great run your boys had in the duals but being an individual tournament...Father Ryan and Baylor seem to be the clear cut top two tournament teams. Each has their fair share of horses as well as overall top to bottom talent. CBHS has no horses besides their two AA's...not enough in the finals to win it. This is the big one boys...The one that matters! Should be exciting any way it plays out. Obviously despite my belief, CBHS is definitely talented enough to win it. I just think they would really need a lot of upsets to go in their favor.

 

FINAL VERDICT: Ryan nips Baylor to win it.

OW: Kaleb Baker (CBHS) -pins his way to the championship

BEST OF LUCK TO ALL!

 

I think you could make a case for any team under-performing and others over-performing and come up with any of the three top teams winning it. However, to ignore CBHS's chance to win it is flatly silly. Afterall, the DII coaches saw it fit to seed CBHS into a position where they would be considered the favorite to win the tournament. Those seeds were based on performance throughout the year for all wrestlers involved. That would seem to indicate that it is the other teams who would need upsets to go in their favor for CBHS not to win the tournament.

 

Some other interesting things in there..

1) "CBHS has no horses besides their two AA's" - Throwing all bias out, I think you would have to give them three horses at a minimum. What would you consider their 106 since you said only their two AA's were horses? That seems like a big one to overlook.

 

2) "not enough in the finals to win it" - CBHS is seeded to have 6 in the finals. Father Ryan is seeded to have 6 in the finals. Baylor is seeded to have 5 in the finals. McCallie is seeded to have 6 in the finals. You could take one or two away from one team and give between the others and it isn't enough to determine the winner... to win the DII traditional tournament you need more than just a bulk of finalists. You have to have team depth. Just look at the numbers myself and someone else has posted it you need convincing.

 

3) "Father Ryan and Baylor seem to be the clear cut top two tournament teams. Each has their fair share of horses as well as overall top to bottom talent." - This directly contradicts your early statement as it talks about having balance versus the number of horse in the finals. CBHS has 13 wrestlers that are seeded to finish top 4. Baylor and Father Ryan have 10 while McCallie has 7. Seems to me that CBHS has plenty of "top to bottom talent". It would seem to me that the only team that could be said to not have enough top to bottom talent to make a run at the individual title would be McCallie.

 

The bottom line is that whichever of the three teams wrestles their best this weekend is likely to take it. A few upsets here or there or one team piling on the extra bonus points could make the difference. Those first round bonus point differentials could decide it all when the dust settles. Based on the seeding there are a few kids from each team that I think are likely to over-perform and a few that are likely to under-perform... those will be the wrestlers that win their team a title... not that "horses." Either way it will be a fun three-team race for first this weekend. I know none of the wrestlers will overlook CBHS's chances like some of the fans seem to be doing. One important question is whether the CBHS team can stay hungry after finally accomplishing one goal...

[nashwrestling]

I think you could make a case for any team under-performing and others over-performing and come up with any of the three top teams winning it. However, to ignore CBHS's chance to win it is flatly silly. Afterall, the DII coaches saw it fit to seed CBHS into a position where they would be considered the favorite to win the tournament. Those seeds were based on performance throughout the year for all wrestlers involved. That would seem to indicate that it is the other teams who would need upsets to go in their favor for CBHS not to win the tournament.

 

Some other interesting things in there..

1) "CBHS has no horses besides their two AA's" - Throwing all bias out, I think you would have to give them three horses at a minimum. What would you consider their 106 since you said only their two AA's were horses? That seems like a big one to overlook.

 

2) "not enough in the finals to win it" - CBHS is seeded to have 6 in the finals. Father Ryan is seeded to have 6 in the finals. Baylor is seeded to have 5 in the finals. McCallie is seeded to have 6 in the finals. You could take one or two away from one team and give between the others and it isn't enough to determine the winner... to win the DII traditional tournament you need more than just a bulk of finalists. You have to have team depth. Just look at the numbers myself and someone else has posted it you need convincing.

 

3) "Father Ryan and Baylor seem to be the clear cut top two tournament teams. Each has their fair share of horses as well as overall top to bottom talent." - This directly contradicts your early statement as it talks about having balance versus the number of horse in the finals. CBHS has 13 wrestlers that are seeded to finish top 4. Baylor and Father Ryan have 10 while McCallie has 7. Seems to me that CBHS has plenty of "top to bottom talent". It would seem to me that the only team that could be said to not have enough top to bottom talent to make a run at the individual title would be McCallie.

 

The bottom line is that whichever of the three teams wrestles their best this weekend is likely to take it. A few upsets here or there or one team piling on the extra bonus points could make the difference. Those first round bonus point differentials could decide it all when the dust settles. Based on the seeding there are a few kids from each team that I think are likely to over-perform and a few that are likely to under-perform... those will be the wrestlers that win their team a title... not that "horses." Either way it will be a fun three-team race for first this weekend. I know none of the wrestlers will overlook CBHS's chances like some of the fans seem to be doing. One important question is whether the CBHS team can stay hungry after finally accomplishing one goal...

 

oh yeah... i forgot that was CBHS's first time to win something that mattered LOL. Well this one is the one that really matters hence TRADITIONAL state tournament. As for the comment on Oliver, you are correct. He will be unchallenged, and is a stud if I've ever seen one. With all due respect, CBHS has had a great run, but I just don't see them finishing ahead of Ryan or Baylor. Might be a close running for third though with McCallie.

 

What are your individual predictions, Garrett?

Edited February 13, 2012 by nashwrestling

[2blLeg]

oh yeah... i forgot that was CBHS's first time to win something that mattered LOL. Well this one is the one that really matters hence TRADITIONAL state tournament. As for the comment on Oliver, you are correct. He will be unchallenged, and is a stud if I've ever seen one. With all due respect, CBHS has had a great run, but I just don't see them finishing ahead of Ryan or Baylor. Might be a close running for third though with McCallie.

 

What are your individual predictions, Garrett?

 

OH, NOW this is the ONE that matters huh?

 

Geez, you guys are pitiful.

 

And not sure if it was you, but many didn't see CBHS finishing where they did in the duals, but uh oh, they did. So I guess the opinions ya'll have mean squat.

[bear cat brown]

OH, NOW this is the ONE that matters huh?

 

Geez, you guys are pitiful.

 

And not sure if it was you, but many didn't see CBHS finishing where they did in the duals, but uh oh, they did. So I guess the opinions ya'll have mean squat.

 

I think I'll miss you most...

 

Bcb iii

[nashwrestling]

OH, NOW this is the ONE that matters huh?

 

Geez, you guys are pitiful.

 

And not sure if it was you, but many didn't see CBHS finishing where they did in the duals, but uh oh, they did. So I guess the opinions ya'll have mean squat.

 

LOL cool your jets buddy. If you go back and read many of my posts I'm the first one to say they are always "biased" in the favor of the Purple Irish...

[bear cat brown]

I am a small school daddy that does not have a pig in this show, but I would like to wish some seniors good luck in their last hurrah and I hope you end up on the top step

 

Mr Watson, without a doubt the cream of the crop.

Matthew Cate

Cole Moseley

Spencer Craig

TJ Holmes

And one of my all time favorite kids and future ruler of the world... Tim Westbrook

 

Bcb iii

[rcpatriot]

I am a small school daddy that does not have a pig in this show, but I would like to wish some seniors good luck in their last hurrah and I hope you end up on the top step

 

Mr Watson, without a doubt the cream of the crop.

Matthew Cate

Cole Moseley

Spencer Craig

TJ Holmes

And one of my all time favorite kids and future ruler of the world... Tim Westbrook

 

Bcb iii

 

Always a Class act!

[ghouse]

oh yeah... i forgot that was CBHS's first time to win something that mattered LOL. Well this one is the one that really matters hence TRADITIONAL state tournament. As for the comment on Oliver, you are correct. He will be unchallenged, and is a stud if I've ever seen one. With all due respect, CBHS has had a great run, but I just don't see them finishing ahead of Ryan or Baylor. Might be a close running for third though with McCallie.

 

What are your individual predictions, Garrett?

 

Funny how what matters changes depending on where you finish isn't it. I have seen Father Ryan have their team make some pretty drastic cuts in the past in order to have an opportunity to take the duals.

 

I have stated my predictions before and that is that the team race will be tight and the team who wrestles their best will come away with it. Of course I personally think that will CBHS but I wouldn't be much of a supporter if I didn't think so.

 

However, let's be realistic. Look at the likely point totals. CBHS would likely have to leave a few wrestlers at home in order for it to be a tight race with McCallie. The Blue Tornado has some excellent wrestlers and could put as many in the finals as the other top teams but they lack the depth to truly be within striking range of the top three schools.

Edited February 14, 2012 by ghouse

[barrel]

Funny how what matters changes depending on where you finish isn't it. I have seen Father Ryan have their team make some pretty drastic cuts in the past in order to have an opportunity to take the duals.

 

I have stated my predictions before and that is that the team race will be tight and the team who wrestles their best will come away with it. Of course I personally think that will CBHS but I wouldn't be much of a supporter if I didn't think so.

 

However, let's be realistic. Look at the likely point totals. CBHS would likely have to leave a few wrestlers at home in order for it to be a tight race with McCallie. The Blue Tornado has some excellent wrestlers and could put as many in the finals as the other top teams but they lack the depth to truly be within striking range of the top three schools.

 

Ghouse,

As you pointed out frhs has an advantage due to the number of first round matches vs byes... How does your point total change if you only counted potential bonus points via pins from those extra matches? My guess is without considering bonus points from that point on it is a virtual dead heat ... Too close to call.... Thanks. barrel

[Freestyle4life]

Word on the street is that half of the points that Houston Clements and Michael Hooker score in this tournament will be given to McCallie

[ghouse]

Ghouse,

As you pointed out frhs has an advantage due to the number of first round matches vs byes... How does your point total change if you only counted potential bonus points via pins from those extra matches? My guess is without considering bonus points from that point on it is a virtual dead heat ... Too close to call.... Thanks. barrel

 

FRHS has 3 less byes than Baylor and CBHS. That could equate to 6 total extra bonus points. There is also the possibility of difference in advancement points as well. Assuming the wrestlers lose in the quarter-finals, then only those who had a first round match got to earn the advancement points for reaching the quarters. However, that isn't very likely if you look at the quarter-final match-ups for most of the teams.

 

It is likely going to be a dead heat between the three teams. Most of the teams have a kid or two that I think may be under-seeded and if some of those kids prove me right then they are likely to be the difference makers. Of course, there are several match-ups between some of these teams in the semi-finals that may be close and could blow things open if they don't follow seeds.

 

Going to be fun!

[nashwrestling]

FRHS has 3 less byes than Baylor and CBHS. That could equate to 6 total extra bonus points. There is also the possibility of difference in advancement points as well. Assuming the wrestlers lose in the quarter-finals, then only those who had a first round match got to earn the advancement points for reaching the quarters. However, that isn't very likely if you look at the quarter-final match-ups for most of the teams.

 

It is likely going to be a dead heat between the three teams. Most of the teams have a kid or two that I think may be under-seeded and if some of those kids prove me right then they are likely to be the difference makers. Of course, there are several match-ups between some of these teams in the semi-finals that may be close and could blow things open if they don't follow seeds.

 

Going to be fun!

 

Very true statement. The team that can have a few of their lower seeded wrestlers make a move could be the difference. Here's a list of a few possible bracket busters.

120-Eady (Bay) 7 seed

132- Akers (FR) 4 seed

160- Clements (Bay) 5 seed

 

Still hard for me to believe that Houston Clements is a 5 seed. The semi final match between he and Cole Mosely could be the match of the tournament as far as it goes from a spectator's standpoint and the team score.

Edited February 14, 2012 by nashwrestling