oknative

Mistaken Identity Penguin- Good post, but you addressed it to me, oknative, when it was kickgrass who you are replying to. I don't think I've responded to the issue of head gear. I agree in theory its probably a good thought, but don't think the players will go for it. And you're going to have to go after a lot of other sports at the same time - mandatory full batting helmets and elbow shields in baseball; mandatory knee braces in football, etc. On the pitch, I've seen one head related injury, and it was more of a neck injury than strickly a head injury. (Goalie dove in front of an attacker and took a knee in the head or neck - and was knocked unconsious for a moment. Scary couple of minutes. Don't think headgear would have made of difference. Blame it on the ref. Why not. Sure if the game is out of control, and there aren't any fouls being called, give some credit (blame) to the ref. However, even if a referee is calling a tight game, properly with no missed calls (I know, you all want to see that game), he can't stop that one play that leads to an injury. In the incident above, defending team playing an offsides trap, pass through, onsides and the attacker is on the run no fouls yet. First shot deflected by goalie back towards attacker - No fouls yet . Goalie dives down - headfirst at ball and puts her head into the thigh of the attacker trying to get to the ball. No foul. Goalie is knocked out with concussion. Injuries can and do happen that have no bearing, credit or blame to the referee. Soccer is tough, sometimes physical game involving running, bumping a lot of contact. Injuries are going to hapen. Head protection? Perhaps a good idea, but its going to be a hard sell. I think you'd see mandatory knee braces before mandatory head gear. And, wouldn't it be easier to simply outlaw - ban - impose a rule - that doesn't allow "headers" in high school soccer. Wouldn't that eliminate most of the concussions mentioned here?

VG - as I recall we had the same scenario on the boys side of things, Two years ago it was Memphis Sheffield that did the same thing - the only team out of District 16 that fielded at team in our District 15 playoffs.

Yes, he was at Madison Academic in Jackson, and is now at Goodpasture Christian School in Nashville. We're just happy that he can still play. He had a SEVERE knee injury 2 1/2 years ago, but you wouldn't know it know to watch him play. He also plays for the Nashville Metros U-17 team. Canes - Just curious - what did that explain, if you don't mind me asking?

Sorry, my mistinterpretation. several posts mentioned profanity - taunting - selective hearing by the referee - sounded like a lot of components to an ugly game. My bad.

Thanks for the props, Volunteer General. We miss Jackson alot.

Sounds like it got pretty ugly.

No, I think you got it right. Alcoa is the only team in the east and is three times better than anyone else - or at least that's what they say.

The rules don't care whether its emotion, or excitement, or nasty tactics - the rules are the rules. The players and coaches now know that a red card has serious implications on future games, so they should be striving harder not to infringe upon those rules. But, the threat of a red card isn't just about protecting players from dangerous play. Its also about sportsmanship - which is what HS sports is supposed to be about. And beyond dangerous behavior, there are lots of things that simply shouldn't be in HS sports and most of them are punished with a red card - taunting, vulgar and abusive language, racial slurs and violence. They deserve a red just as much as the fouls meant to protect the players from injury on the field.

There is a regional or district type commissioner who assigns referees. In the Nashville area its the Middle Tennessee Soccer Officials Association. Don't know the details as to how games are assigned in the regular season. Post season is a little different. There is a 2nd test required for post season officiating. Closed book, more difficult. In our area, about 1/3 of the referees didn't take the post season test - don't know why. No opinion offered. In playoffs, all games (I think) go to a 3-man, center ref, system of control. Again, my guess only, is that the center referee positions in the district finals, regionals, sectionals and state playoff are going to be hand selected based on skill and experience.

Wow, didn't know that! Now I'll have to think about whether that should impact my decision on the field. On the one hand, a foul that deserves a red card - deserves a red card, regardless of the post game penalties. Should there be another hand....

Agreed, but then again, the players should know that referees are going to call something for the "f" word, or a trip from behind, or any of dozens of other fouls. They shouldn't need a reminder. About the only real clarification I give is that if they "extend their arms AND gain an advantage, they're going to be whistled. I don't mind the shoulder to shoulder stuff, but keep your arms in."

Nashville area, but cut my teeth in West Tennessee. Two game suspension is harsh, but is not a NFHS rules. Don't think its from TSSAA because otherwise we'd hear more about more such suspensions. Sounds more like a school rule. I've known schools, particularly religiously based private schools, that have sanctioned their players, students in the stands and even parents, for misconduct on the field or in the stands. Anyone know who gave that particular suspension.

Good comments. Not much disagreement here. I agree with about the cleats up by a goalie - my son suffered a major injury from just such a play. Its hard to distinguish parents from the stands. If you did yell at your daughter, I would have probably thought it was a parent for the other team. Dirty play does start with the coaches and players, and its sad that its left up to us to clean up. Its just frustrating when I can't get all of it, and get blamed for being a poor ref.

I like the idea of giving one or two points of emphasis at a pregame meeting with the captains, but I don't think referees should have to go over what they will and won't call in a game. Hopefully, the players already know the rules before they step onto the field. I shouldn't have to remind them not to use the "f" word.

Siegel - Just to clarify that taunting does not need to be profane to qualify as taunting. And this is another broad area as to what different referees consider taunting. I've see referees red card a player for "shining the shoes" after a goal, and have seen it for racial slurs that weren't really profane. A lot of gray area in this left up to the official to determine if something is inciting or degrading. Personally, I'd like to see a sample list from the NFHS of specific examples they consider taunting.

BigG - I don't have the rulebook in front of me, but the rules do make for differences in language fouls that would warrant either a yellow or red. I think the working used for a yellow card in "incidental", as opposed to the red card language refers to "abusive". I don't think the NFHS rules directly address criteria for language, but the USSF advice to referees may do so - which is a pretty good guideline, referring to the 3 "p"s when it comes to language. Those are: 1) Public 2) Personal and 3) Provocative. That said, one referee's opinion as to what is provocative or profane, may be quite different from another. For instance, a player who says "thats BS" to a call of mine, might not get a card for language, but is going to get a card for dissent. However, another referee might consider it two different fouls - both a language foul and dissent. Its one of those subjective areas in officiating that tends to be personal, since there isn't a published list of "illegal" words. On the field, I generally try to speak to players regarding "watching their language" and may tolerate a little bit, early in the game - but try not to let it continue. I have given one red card for abusive language without warning - to a player who used the "f" word and directed if loudly to a player on an opposing team. Someone who says it quietly to them selves might get a verbal warning before action. The difficulty with controlling language is only multiplied in the two-man high school system of refereeing. Its awfully difficult to hear what players are saying to each other when they are in the middle of the field and I'm 20-30 yards away protecting the offside call. I know its being said on the field, but if you don't hear it, you can't call it.

Maybe we should give video camera's to all parents as they come into the stadium. Might be onto something here. Contrary to what you may think, I've been trying to do something good here. To help some people better understand the perspective that some referees actually have. That we're trying to make the game better. Make it fairer. Make it safer. Maybe all referees don't have the same lofty goals. I know that I make it a better game. I'm sorry if you didn't like the posting on biased parents. Perhaps I touched a nerve on the reasons we do what we do. Its certainly easier to blame a referee than to admit somebody actually committed or didn't commit a foul. I just know its not some big evil plot against one team or the other. Sometimes we just see things differently. Its kind of like the phenomenon of when 10 different people witness an accident and all 10 of them see something different. I'm just telling you that the different perspective thing is real. I've been the parent, and the ref, and am still both, and its not meant to be some referee telling you that you're blind or didn't see what you saw. And unfortunately, you can't tidy things up with a video camera. Take you're camera down to your coach at halftime, and he'll get a red card. I don't know why, that's just the rules. But its not my fault you can't tidy things up that way - I'm not a fox and I'm not in a henhouse. That's soccer. And I'm sorry that's the answer you expected.

Canes, This is great - I have the organization and website right here. This couldn't have worked out any better for both of us. As a matter of fact, I have two for you. They are TSSAA and the NFHS. Thats Tennessee Secondary Schools Athletic Assication at www.tssaa.org and The National Federation of High Schools at www.nfhs.org Unfortunately, neither TSSAA or NFHS allows the use of any type of video replay to contest a point of fact. Sorry but it appears that your four years of tape has been a waste. And I'm guessing that in the four years of tape it never once caught you yelling to have a foul called on your daughter. And since you're such great guy who wants to really improve things, here's another link you can go to make things better: http://www.tssaa.org/Officials/registration.htm

I'm not saying bias is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm biased towards my kids, you may be biased towards your spouse, I'm biased towards the Oklahoma Sooners, and perhaps you favor the Volunteers. We're all biased in our own ways. But having those biases effects our attitudes and opinions towards whatever we're biased about. You're going to favor your kids more than someone elses kids. And when it comes to parents, coaches and players, its not necessarily a bad thing that they are biased towards their own team or child - its just that they are. And that impacts their view of the game. A referee may not be the best referee in the world, but hopefully he's at least unbiased. I know I'd rather have a referee who was officiating my child's team not be the parent of one of the players on the other team. Too much bias. I'd rather have referee that didn't have a dog in the hunt, or didn't care who won or lost - who was unbiased. That's all I'm saying. My guess is that in most cases, the referees are the least biased people in the stadium. Everyone else is cheering for a team or a player. Keeperfan15, let me ask you a question. The last time another girl held your daughter's jersey and the whistle wasn't blown - did you yell from the stands at the referee to blow his whistle and a foul? Its okay, most parents do. Now for part two of the question. The last time your daughter held another girl's jersey and the whistle wasn't blown - did you yell from the stands at the referee to blow his whistle and call a foul on your daughter? My guess is no. Maybe you're daughter doesn't hold jerseys, so put in whatever foul you want to - tripping, pushing, holding, a reckless tackle. The fact is that a parent doesn't yell at the referee to blow their whistle and call a foul when its their daughter who commits the foul. Its usually more like "that was a good defensive play", or good no-call. Its only the parent of the girl who is knocked down that yells. That's the type of bias I'm talking about, and that's the bias that I don't bring to the field. And regardless of what you say, that kind of bias impacts your perspective of the game. I can't the fix 10% of refs you mention - and I'd like to think it was that low. Inconsistency between crews - it happens and its there. Can't fix that either. I can just be the best ref I can be. I'd like to see TSSAA adopt a yearly referee's clinic like the USSF requires for rec league and travel leagues. I don't think its too much to expect. Getting a 70% (I think) on an open book yearly exam is not a wonderful bar to have to clear to be a referee. But there's already a SEVERE shortage of referee's in just about every sport you can name. Adding more requirements is simply going cause more to leave offiating, which may not be a bad thing for some. Perhaps you need to do like I did and quit complaining - do something about it. Become one yourself. By the way, great last poke with the shirt pulling jab. And yes its a foul, unsporting behavior and should be an automatic caution - yellow card. It is in my games - I'm sorry if its not in your games.

x

itzme - You said that VERY well.

Canes - I guarantee I'm anything but the Napoleonic complex you mention. I drift to the "I call what I see, and don't call what I don't see" - and its not that complicated to become a complex. I have no fears of saying that I make mistakes. Every ref does. The call I hate most of all is a close out of bounds call which is right in front of a bench, while I'm 15 yards down the line, as four feet go at the ball as it goes out of bounds. Does the coach in front of the bench have a better view of who actually touched it last before it crossed the touchline - absolutely. Do I get it right every time - no - to the dismay of the coach who was three feet in front of the play. But I can't judge my call based on his reaction, only on what I see - because of the hundreds of times I seen the same coaches point their way when I was the one in the better view to see the ball. Seldom will a coach actually point the way of his opponents no matter who was the last to touch the ball. VERY SELDOM! And he always point the way of his team because of bias. Fortunately, few games are seriously impacted by who takes a throw-in from in front of a bench. What makes you biased is the fact that you actually care who wins the game and are emotionally attached to what happens in the game. I don't. Are you a coach? Are you a player? Are you a parent of a player? Then you are biased whether you believe you are or not. I know this to be true because I'm also a parent who watches soccer. And even as a referee, I see how biased I am as I watch other referees call games in which my child is playing. Despite my understanding of the rules as a referee, I become a biased parent when I watch my own child play. But hopefully, the referees should be the least biased people on the pitch. Question? Two daughters running down the field. Attacker takes the ball into the box and is challenged by a defender. Perhaps the defender trips the attacker, or perhaps the attacker extends her arm to gain an advantage to take the shot. Whistle blows - foul. From a parent's point of view - what makes this a good or a bad call? Be honest now! Usually the only determining factor is which one is your daughter - not which foul was called. That's called bias. What you don't seem to understand is that parents and referees don't even see the same game. They can't. Not only are our positions and angles to plays different - so you may see something I don't and I may see something you don't. But our entire perspectives of the game are different. In the above question of two daughters running down the field, I don't see a daughter fouling or being fouled. I see a foul and call it, regardless of which daughter it is. That's the difference of perspectives between you and me, and it is bias that separates those two perspectives.

Canes - I'm not going to argue whether all referees are the same - they aren't. But perhaps one of the reasons that the level of officiating hasn't risen is because there's not much motivation to become a referee because of how referees are treated on the field and by the likes of these posts - that disparage and abuse referees - regardless of their ability. Personally, I'm in the game because I used to be one of you. A biased parent who couldn't stand how the officials treated my child and team. Then one game, years ago, I was challenged that if I could do better, then perhaps I should become one. And I did. And I've become a pretty good one at that. Though even that doesn't stop the verbal abuse I get every time I step onto the pitch - regardless of the quality of my calls. But the main point of the previous post wasn't necessarily about the quality of officiating, but about the lack of civility by the spectators in High School soccer - mostly parents. Because they are usually the least qualified to give an opinion on a referees call, and usually the first to offer it. And in the game I described, the referee didn't lose the game for Beech - the defensive player who committed a foul in the penalty area created the opportunity for Henderson to win it. And they did. Perhaps its time you went to a clinic and put on yellow jersey yourself. Or are you just more comfortable being an official in the stands and in these posts?