Redtwin

MBA will definitely have their hands full with a high powered EHS offense, but as they say, that's why the play the game. If Ryan can stay close with EHS, then MBA certainly can as well.

That was not a very good BGA team. I didn't see the first game, but I can't believe that that same team beat MBA earlier this year.

My impression of the MBA/BGA score and game is not that MBA is "hot", it's that BGA is BAD. MBA did what they should have done to the Wildcats, and should have done the first time. It will always be a mystery to me that BGA beat them, because they are a significantly better team. It will be interesting to me to see how the MBA/EHS #2 shakes out. I expect MBA to play with a lot of emotion and really come after EHS after a very humiliating early season loss. On the other hand, EHS can look at this game as a "gimme" after what took place in the first game and come out flat. However, EHS is too well coached for that and the program has way too much to play for, so I predict a very workmanlike EHS victory, a 14 point margin. Agreed. I didn't see the first BGA game, but how in the world did they beat MBA? It'll be tough for MBA to beat Ensworth, especially after a bye week.

I think McCallie would have to be the clear front runner. They've got quite a defensive unit anchored by a solid keeper, and they have nice offensive depth as well. Of course, Kemp does a good job as well. I think MBA and MUS will both be in it as well. MBA has developed some more depth on offense, and the addition of former UVA All-American Billy Gladding has helped them a lot in that area in particular. MBA is also happy to have former Big Red goalie Alex Dean on staff this year, and I hear he is already helping the goalies significantly.

I think Troy Flemming has the career rushing record for TN (and had it for the nation at some point), but does anyone know what the single season record is? Darkwa has got to be getting close.

On paper, it looks like it should be a blowout, but so did the Ryan game. The BGA game looked like it should have been an easy win for MBA. You never know...

I would add Fitz Lassing and Andrew Fletcher from MBA to the list.

Great win for the Big Red. Sounds like coach Rodriguez's defense did a good job.

I thought I recognized you from somewhere I agree that this thread has been hijacked, and I did not mean to do so when I posted my orignal post. While we're setting the record straight, prior to EHS there would barely be 30 boys total in an Ensworth Elementary school class, and the entire class definitely did not go to MBA. Also, MBA definitely did not get one third of its student body from Ensworth. The average number that went to MBA was roughly 15 give or take 3. Oak Hill currently feeds and has fed the largest number into MBA, and Ensworth and Harding were behind that. During my time in the high school, one of the winningest periods in MBA football history and Ricky Bowers' most successful range, one class had 13 boys from Ensworth, one had 16, and one had 12. I can't remember the senior class when I was a freshman for certain, but that number was certainly under 20. In all those classes, roughly half of the Ensworth boys played football. I don't have any kids, but I have plenty of close connections to both MBA and Ensworth, and it bears repeating that I've said several times that I think highly of both schools. I also don't know the motivation for parents pulling out kids prior to sixth grade, but I know the kids and they're good kids, and I think a lot of the parents, so I give them the benefit of the doubt that they know how to parent their children. We are clearly not going to convince each other in this discussion, so maybe we should just agree to disagree. As you pointed out, this thread is about a great game between EHS and BA.

I'm primarily curious because I've coached in elementary (5&6) and middle school (7&8) for several years and don't remember most of those boys. For instance, I clearly remember Moore at BGA who just ran all over MBA. A lot changes between that age and high school though, so they may have just not stood out at that level. I'm also curious because prior to EHS, Ensworth was an elementary school with a middle school that was basically an extension of that elementary school. The overwhelming majority, almost all, of EMS' students came from the elementary school and then went on to high school, many of the boys to MBA, some of them to other schools. Most of the boys that go to MBA from Ensworth now do so in 7th grade, a reversal of the previous pattern, and that number trends close to what it has in the past. Some have even gone to other schools prior to 5th or 6th grade to avoid any pressure not to go to MBA. My source on this is very good, and I've seen it with my own eyes. As I have mentioned, I use EMS synonymously with Ensworth Elementary, so other than that technicality, I feel good about my information. If people are going to compare wether or not EHS is having an impact on MBA's enrollment, then the 6th grade is the point of comparison because those are the traditional, life-long Ensworth students that have gone on to MBA in the past. If the students replacing those boys that leave to go to MBA in 7th grade are the ones that are contributing the most for the Tigers, then the impact on MBA's "talent level," which is the question that brought me into this thread, is negligible. Those are the reasons I'm curious about how many of those boys went to Ensworth in 6th grade. Like you, I'm just trying to set the record straight. I've been posting on this site for nearly 10 years, and Itzme has been doing so nearly as long. Although neither of us post as frequently as we used to, he usually has more thoughtful posts than the majority of the users on the board, so when he said something I believed to be untrue, I wanted to have a conversation about it. It was not the primary point of my original post, but it's the one that always gets the most attention. To be honest, I'm quite tired of talking about it, but it seems like most of the discussion surrounding MBA's slow start drifts back to this one point, a point which I believe to be an auxiliary issue.

Bostie, I think you've got someone else's quotes mistaken for one of mine. At least I don't remember typing that. Either way, you're right about your percentage. We've discussed this before on another thread, and again I may have misspoken here. I'm not sure why, but when I say EMS, I'm thinking more 6th grade than 8th. Probably just because I'm involved in 6th grade athletics. Prior to EHS MBA got most of its boys from Ensworth in 9th grade with a few coming after 6th grade. Since EHS, there has been a drastic shift to where MBA now gets most of its boys from Ensworth after 6th grade with a few coming in 9th grade. Like I said, MBA doesn't get the same amount it used to, but it's not much less either. It's been relatively consistent. I wasn't aware that Cooper and McFadden went to EMS, but I'm certainly not the authority on the subject. Out of curiousity do you know how many of the boys you listed attended Ensworth in the 6th grade? Bighurt, I think most MBA supporters would admit that EHS was getting some boys that might usually go to MBA, but the numbers show that MBA has held up pretty well. You might consider that pompous, but some MBA people might consider it pretentious that some EHS supporters don't understand that the world is not crumbling to pieces over on Harding Rd. either. Either way, this conversation can be civil without a need for name calling. I try not to get involved in this perpetual discussion about MBA and EHS and attendance, but my point that the lack of quality players or lack of players from traditional feeder schools is not the primary reason for MBA having a down year this year is a valid one.

Wrong again. The number of boys that MBA gets from the traditional feeder schools I mentioned earlier has remained very level since the creation of EHS. There has been a small drop off from EMS, but it has not been as significant as many would have thought. Look at the most significant contributors for EHS this year and tell me which ones came from one of the schools I mentioned. Rodney Anderson is about the only one I see, and he's been at Ensworth his entire career. This is not a jab at EHS, nor is there any problem with it. It merely supports what I'm saying. Also, the most significant players on the most successful teams came from those schools. Hunter Hillenmeyer, Ingle Martin, Dominique Morris, Tom Santi, David McIntosh, Barton Simmons, Tate Rich, Cole Barfield, Reid Murphy, etc. all come from those schools. Moses went to Eakin, a public magnet school about five minutes from MBA. Again, the problem, if you can call it that, is not a lack of talent. Inuries have been devastating for the last two years. If you go back and look at Ricky's teams, especially the ones with which he won multiple titles, they largely avoided serious injuries. I can only think of two season ending injuries from 1998-2000. Also, Ricky is a great coach, as are Caudill, Hiett, and Redmond, but Rutledge and McGugin had no trouble winning titles when Floyd Elliott was around. He was the glue. MBA's D has had some growing pains this year, but Coach Rodriguez is talented, and his team has shown some bright spots along the way. To someone else's point. Vandy is insane if they don't jump all over Orleans. He is a player, and he reminds me of Moses. All the big time college coaches said he was an inch short and a step slow, but it didn't stop him from leading the SEC in tackles. He was football fast and had a nose for the ball, and I think Orleans is the same way. Vandy should try and get him, as well as Fitz Lassing, another Oak Hill boy.

You couldn't be more wrong. MBA is getting the same players it was getting when Bowers was there. Most of my teammates, who won 3 titles, came from Oak Hill, St. Paul, Ensworth Middle, Harding, some public schools and some parochials schools, which is still the case. Coaching had a lot to do with it, but it wasn't just Ricky that contributed to the success. Caudill, Elliott, and Redmond contributed huge amounts. I think Floyd Elliott was the primary reason for MBA's success. Both coaches since Bowers have had success and won championships. Since Elliott left, there have been growing pains. There have also been some significant injuries. We were very fortunate during our run to stay healthy for most of the year. That hasn't been the case recently. MBA's had great success on the football field. You can't win a championship every year, and this isn't MBA's year. The Big Red will win again, however.

Apparently we don't take our elementary school English classes seriously enough either.

Blue Mom nearly nailed it. Fletcher hits a 36 yarder to win it with 6 seconds left. Nice win.

What a kick by Fletcher! Boots a 54 yarder with 4 minutes left to tie it up at 24.

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my post, but I think the civil tone of my post conveys a sincere message. If you follow my previous posts about EHS over the years, you will find that in general, they say nice things, and when speaking about people like Ricky Bowers, Edd Caudill, or Jason Hiett, they are always complimentary. To answer your question, you have to keep in mind that more than 75% of MBA's alumni did not attend Ensworth and are therefore, indifferent about EHS. Of those that did, the majority consider it to be an elementary school, which is why when I discuss it with peers, they plan on sending their sons to MBA for high school. Again, I don't think my post sounds anything like a hissy fit, and if you do, you are not properly understanding it. (Comparatively, my post is much more civil/cordial than yours, but I don't accuse you of having an inferiority complex or a chip on your shoulder.) Contrary to what you may want to believe, MBA isn't all that concerned with EHS, and it's going to keep on being the same great institution it's always been. Do we want to beat them in football? Absolutely. We want to win every game. But, MBA just had 12 boys named National Merit Semifinalists, one of whom was Fitz Lassing. (Congrats to MUS for leading the state with 13.) MBA also just had 78 boys earn AP honors. MBA is also finally set to embark on a campus expansion/renovation that has been 15 years in the making as they acquired the necessary properties. Things are fine. That's the last I'm going to say on the matter because this thread isn't about MBA and Ensworth. I apologize if I've helped get it off track. Back to the topic at hand, which rivalry is the biggest in DII?

The "vocal minority" is made up of the small number of MBA alumni or supporters who, as you pointed out, were responsible for "kicking off" EHS, as in "got them started." They were a small number, and they were very vocal about some of their feelings, which, as I pointed out, are not shared by the vast majority of MBA alumni and fans. Most in the MBA community are relatively indifferent towards EHS. In the same way, I believe most of the MBA community view Ryan and BA as their primary rivals because as you point out, EHS is too new and MBA has played many, many classic games vs. these schools. The game is probably more important to EHS because they do not have tradition with any other schools, and because their coaches, who came from MBA, emphasize it (as I'm sure the MBA coaches do too). I have my matriculation facts pretty straight although I may have mis-spoken. Prior to EHS, most of the kids who came to MBA from Ensworth came in ninth grade while a few came in sixth grade. You are correct that most of the current EMS students do continue on to EHS, however, a large number of the boys now leave in the sixth grade for MBA. In fact, the number of boys MBA gets from Ensworth elementary now is almost the same as it was when I was there, but this number has shifted from the ninth to the sixth grade. I don't need to take you up on your offer to speak to an EHS admissions counseor, or an MBA admissions counselor for that matter, because my source is pretty spot on. You are also correct that MBA is getting its students from more schools than ever. I'm not sure about zip codes, but about 30% of the students live in Williamson Co. I'll have to check on 38474. The fact remains, however, that they continue to source very well from their traditional feeders Oak Hill, Harding, Ensworth, St. Paul, etc. MBA has a proud tradition of educating and devloping gentemen, scholars, and athletes for well over 100 years, and it's history, successful alumni base, tradition, and community cannot be replicated, regardless of how many new buildings EHS builds, past MBA faculty EHS hires, or state championships EHS wins. That being said, I believe, as do most MBA alumni, that EHS is a fine school with great resources and lovely people, and it serves a need that Nashville has for more private education. (In fact, some of the biggest influences on my life now work there, and they are great, great people.) I also believe that MBA will continue it's prestigious legacy for centuries to come, and that EHS and MBA will draw their students from two very different bases. Just my opinion, but I can tell you, that having spoken to many Ensworth alumni who are in the 25 to 35 age bracket, that EHS isn't in the plans for their children. None of this, however, is important to the discussion of the best football rivalry in the state. I hope MBA and EHS do play again this year, but even if it were in the state championship, the attendance wouldn't be half of the TN attendance record, and I bet not even a third. I also think MUS is the team to beat in DII. Good luck to both schools.

what does that have to do with anything? I guess Independence is also our biggest rival since they won the last game we played with them. EHS/MBA is a great rivalry fueled by the fact that many of the people involved with kick starting EHS were a part of the MBA family for a long time. To refer to a team that has whipped MBA two years in a row and played them close three years ago as the "obnoxious, up-start little brother" kinda comes off as...dumb, childish, I don't know, a whole number of things. I always loved playing EHS and have nothing but respect for them. When we played it was just a good natured, intense kinda rivalry between two good teams without a lot of the trash talk you usually see. I'm guessing you're "thoughts" don't represent MBA as a whole though so I'm not too worried about it Actually his thoughts represent a fairly large contingent of the MBA community. The win-loss record in a series has little correlation to the degree of a rivalry. Also, the "many MBA supporters involved in kicking off EHS" is actually a quite small number of very vocal individuals than what an uniformed outsider would be led to believe. If you look at the matriculation of EMS students to MBA and the number of EMS alums (who then went on to MBA/HH) who are now enrolling their children at schools other than EMS, you will see that there are plenty of people who don't agree with the vocal minority. I would rank MBA's rivals in the order of: 1. Ryan 2. BA 3. EHS Could EHS work it's way up that list over time? Sure, we'll see what happens

I've been too busy with homework to really have an opinion. I don't know anything about this year's McCalllie team, but I expect that they'll be well coached. MBA's gonna have to get some stops and protect the football. I might try to make it over to the Hill tonight for a bit.

Tyner has certainly had some good teams over the years (hard not to with Demonte Bolden) but their record is misleading. They're still a 2A school and have had limited historical success against teams from higher classifications. Just my opinion, but the DII teams should stick to scheduling what used to be 4A and 5A DI programs.

Obviously EHS and MUS have separated themselves at the top of the league. I'm not sure what to make of Ryan at this point. They pick up what appears to be a quality win over BA but a loss to Overton (will probably take a good beating at Lipscomb) and blowing out a terrible Hillwood team don't say a lot. Baylor appears much improved but not sure whether they belong in that top group yet. FRA and Tyner shouldn't even be on the schedule. Beating BGA is a step in the right direction but we'll see what happens when they get BA, MBA, McCallie, etc. MBA is really an unknown at this point. New QB on offense, Griscom out for the year, DL looking prety thin right now. I think they still have the potential to give the rest of DII all they can handle. In my point of view you have: DII Middle/East: 1. EHS 2. BA MBA Baylor McCallie 3. FRHS BGA

Trying to pull the recruiting card in DII is pretty lame. All the DII schools do their best to attract top flight talent to their institutions. Some schools value specific talents more than others just as some schools value certain course offerings more than others. One thing that separates the DII schools from the DI schools is the fact that they continually challenge themselves to be the best both in the classroom and the athletic fields. In this particular case, EHS has a more talented team and won the game. MBA has won with inferior talent in the past and will do so again in the future. Friday wasn't the night, how the team responds to Colbert's injury (add him to a list of mounting others) will be very important and say a lot about the character of this team. I'm looking forward to seeing how the rest of the season plays out. Still at least 7 great opportunities left to write their story.

Tough game for the Big Red. They seemed to be physically outmatched at most of the positions on the field. William Tanner sure is a good athlete. Fitz Lassing looked good too. Orleans looked great. Vandy is insane if they don't jump all over that kid. EHS reminded me of an MBA team from 96 or 97. Big up front with big, strong backs. It's been a while, and I didn't have a great vantage point, but I think I saw some 44 TAG, 3, and 46 BOB Ice. I was also impressed by 55 for EHS. He was an athlete. Hope Colbert is ok. I was told he had a broken 4th vertabrate. Congrats to EHS.

I think people are giving Baylor a little too much credit at this point. Two wins against teams that are average at best. In DII middle you've probably got BA, EHS, and MBA neck and neck. Throw in MUS from the west and you've probably got the legitimate top 4 in DII in no uncertain order.