thisismyname

Crazy Train, You are correct in that the rules about game location are stated on the TSSAA website. However, you are incorrect in stating that Greeneville would have played at Tennessee High. The rule to which you refer states that the exception applies only if the teams are from the SAME region. Tennessee High is a Region 1 team. Greeneville is a Region 2 team. In the unlikely event that Tennessee High had beaten Morristown West, a Greeneville versus Tennessee High game (or a Cherokee versus Tennessee High game for that matter) would have been played at the home site of the team on top side of the bracket - a Region 2 team - either Greeneville or Cherokee. Odd that you find it a "no brainer" to determine where the Morristown West versus Greeneville game will be played, yet you have trouble interpreting that very same rule as it would apply to anyone other scenario. If it is so clear, how did you come to the wrong conclusion? Maybe Greeneville's Principal or A.D. don't look so dumb now, do they? After all, if someone of your obviously high intellect and superior intelligence can misinterpret it, then what chance do those common folk have? Incidentally, the error wasn’t confined to only the Greeneville administration. The Greeneville Sun, the Johnson City Press, the Kingsport News Times, at least three radio stations and two television stations had the game site incorrect also. Further, the Knoxville News Sentinel, relying on the brackets published on the TSSAA website prior to Friday night’s games, also incorrectly listed game locations for four additional games across the state, all of which fell under the same-region exception to the rule. That exception was printed on the TSSAA website, but was not included on the individual classification brackets page. When printing out a bracket to fill out later in the night to publish or report, a pre-assigned home location was already on the bracket, exactly as it appeared on the official TSSAA website. When these news organizations filled out their bracket, an incorrect assumption was made. To my knowledge, all have since reported or printed corrections.

Kev, Gotcha. Was looking at the TSSAA webpage for playoff checklist at http://tssaa.org/Sports/Football/Instructi.../fbchecklst.htm. It doesn't have the "however" clause on it. Did not see that on the page you linked to. Guess that means MW is in fact the home team. Thanks for the clarification.

Browsing through all the brackets on TSSAA website shows that the top side of the bracket team is the home team EXCEPT when the bottom side team is a higher seed. Seems to confirm what you heard at the game. Have never really looked at it like that before. Gonna be a big surprise to one of the teams, since they both think they have the home game (haha).

Kevin, Not trying to start anything with you. Just trying to clarify. The TSSAA website says "In all Division I play-off games . . .In the third round and semifinals in odd-numbered years the top team in each bracket shall be the host team." I guess the answer lies in the definition of "top team." I read that to mean the team on the top side of the bracket. But it might mean the top seeded team. Would like to know the answer. I know that the (H) designation was on the top side of the bracket earlier, but is next to Morristown West's name now. Kinda an important team for those teams to know next Friday night, isn't it.

The home team is the higher seeded team in the first two rounds, but in third and fourth round it alternates between the top team in the bracket or the bottom team in the bracket. All week long, until tonight, the (H) designation was on the upper side of the bracket for all teams in 4A, meaning the game would be played at Greeneville. But on TSSAA website as of 12:00 AM, MW is designated as the home team. The odd thing is all other top-side-of-the-bracket teams are listed as (H) except that particular matchup. The following is a direct quote from TSSAA webpage: In all Division I play-off games, in the first and second rounds the higher seeded team shall be the host school. In the third round and semifinals in odd-numbered years the top team in each bracket shall be the host team. In even-numbered years the procedure shall be rotated in the third round and semifinals. But their html bracket does not indicate that. Pretty sure the game is at Greeneville however.

Greeneville and Cocke County play tomorrow night, October 10, 2003. It will be the 77th meeting between the two schools in a series that dates back to October 10, 1919. Not the longest consecutive series, and not the oldest series, but one worth mentioning.

BigDaddy69 said You're exactly right. The last five opponents of GHS haven't been the toughest. But three of them were conference opponents (Crockett, Cherokee and Volunteer), one of them was Greeneville's second oldest opponent (Elizabethton) and Sullivan South. You can't avoid playing teams in your region, so it's not exactly like GHS went out and tried to schedule those opponents for any specific reason. But Greeneville outscored these opponents 217-33. If they had squeaked by any or all of these opponents then making reference to strength of schedule over the last five games would be a valid argument. However, that is not the case. Greeneville probably fared as well against them as West will. Since MW hasn't played them yet, no solid comparisons can be drawn. jiveturkey said If you were to combine East and West, you would then be playing 5A football. The enrollment at this fantasy school would make it the largest school in the state, bar none, with almost 2500 students. Almost 900 more students than Kingsport Dobyns Bennett. Now how accurate of a comparison could you possibly make by a team drawn from 2500 students playing a team drawn from 769 students? I know that wasn't exactly your point, but you shed a suspicios light on a school that allows tuition students, suggesting that by doing so draws all the talented players from the entire county. Statistically, less than 25% of the student body is comprised of tuition students. I don't know the exact numbers on the football team, but by interpolation, that would mean that all of 7 players "statistically" would or could be tuition students. Greeneville is a 3A size school that chooses to play up a level in competition for various reasons. One is to preserve long time rivals - like Morristown (the Hurricanes specifically, since they are GHS's oldest opponent, dating back to to at least 1916.) Despite the size difference, they compete well with most of the schools of the IMAC. They most likely could never advance past the likes of schools like Maryville, and with a smaller team than most of their opponents, they usually lack depth at every position. But they stand proud each Friday night and play the game as men.

The Greeneville Lions Club sponsored a Tobacco Bowl in the 50s and 60s. Here are Greeneville's results. 1952 Tobacco Bowl GHS v. Spring City L 19-20 at Greeneville 1954 Tobacco Bowl GHS v. Knox West T 13-13 at Greeneville 1955 Tobacco Bowl GHS v. Knox Central L 7-14 at Greeneville 1958 Tobacco Bowl GHS v.Erwin W 13-0 at Erwin 1959 Quarterback Bowl GHS v. Church Hill L 14-18 at Greeneville 1961 Tobacco Bowl GHS v. Knox. East W 20-7 at Greeneville 1962 Tobacco Bowl GHS v. Erwin W 19-12 at Greeneville 1963 Tobacco Bowl GHS v. Jefferson City W 21-6 at Greeneville 1964 Tobacco Bowl GHS v. Knox Fulton W 12-7 at Greeneville 1984 Scholar's Bowl GHS v. Sullivan South L 21-24 at Johnson City 1992 Scholar's Bowl GHS v. Dob. Bennett L 13-27 Jat ohnson City

Actually, I might have just bored myself out of it What, praytell, was the real reason that I missed?

Bud, So as not to hijack the Volunteer thread recounting last year's DB versus GHS game, I moved my reply under the topic "GHS Football History." Hope you drop by.

Bud, In deference to the Volunteer fans who might not enjoy reading a debate on GHS versus DB, I moved my reply to here instead. I hope you find it. One of the things I love most about football - high school and college - is the rivalry - the passion that fans have for their teams. And I always enjoy a good sound debate. For those of you just joining us, Bud had wished the Voluteer Falcons good luck against Greeneville, in spite of all the "home cooking" in officiating that he claims happens at Burley Stadium. I took issue with that remark. The reply and Bud's counter can be found in the Volunteer thread if you're interested. Bud remarked in your reply to my last post in that Volunteer thread: In the first half of last year's GHS versus DB game, Daniel Crosby had a fumble recovery and Chase Greenway had an interception. In the second half, Joe Watson had three interceptions. 1+1+3=5. Five turnovers in the game. I don't have the game film to go back and check as you do, but one pass interference call against DB came immediately after the fumble recovery by Crosby at the DB 35. It came on Greeneville's first play from scrimmage, on 1st down. Technically, it did keep the drive going, but I would think most people would consider a drive sustaining penalty occurs on 2nd down at best, and more often on 3rd down. Greeneville scored two plays later on a 20 yard run. I recall this from memory, so I may not be totally accurate, and it doesn't appear to be the call you and Coach Graham quote in your last post. Even though you were both wrong on the number of turnovers, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. But then again, you said you've watched the game tape “many times” (your words, not mine) yet somehow you failed to accurately count the number of DB turnovers. I don't deny that sometimes the calls appear to go in favor of one team over another, but I would bet that more often than not an impartial third party would be unable to identify preference of one team over another on any particular call. More often than not, not every single time. I'm sure it happens, not saying it doesn't, but remove the rose colored glasses (or in this case the maroon or green colored glasses) and ask two questions: 1) Did the foul occur? and 2) Are fouls being called the same on both sides of the ball. I'm sure you will forever feel that DB wasn't given a fair shake in the GHS game, but with only 12 penalties between the two teams, dispersed almost equally (five for DB, seven for GHS), it's hard to see you can come to the conclusion that officiating significantly determined the outcome of that game. You might argue that it was the calls that weren't made that made the difference, but the simple fact is the game was called almost evenly on both sides. In that very same game, on the field house end of the field, I recall two pass attempts by Greeneville into the end zone where the defender and receiver made contact but no flag was thrown. I'm sure you view it as good defense. Greeneville fans would see it as pass interference. The officials, standing within twenty feet of the play, declined to make the call. I have to take their word for it. What other facts would you suggest to use to analyze that game to see why one team won and one team lost? There are dozens of factors in any game, but when a team turns the ball over five times, the other statistics become less relevant. You could compare offensive output, but not accurately since turning the ball over stifled DB’s offensive output. You could compare defensive statistics. But that too would be skewed by the turnover ratio. Time of possession, first downs, and field position - all in that game were directly and immensely altered by turnovers. As was the intangible, but always important, momentum. Turnovers, while not the only means of measure, are key in winning any game. It's just a simple fact. DB did not capitalize on six of their nine offensive possessions (five turnovers and the end of the first half). What exactly did the officials do to cause the fumble? DB fumbled on their very first play from scrimmage at their own 35-yard line. Two possessions later, on DB's fifth play from original scrimmage, Chase Greenway intercepted the ball. Joe Watson's second interception came on the first play of DB's seventh possession. How did the officials cause four passes to be intercepted? Aside from being the official timekeepers of the game, how did they prevent DB's offense from reaching then end zone before the close of the first half? They didn't. DB chose to down the ball and let the clock expire. That leaves only three possessions from which DB benefited. They scored on two of those and failed to convert a fourth down on the other. I stand corrected on a point I made in the previous post. DB did not score two touchdowns in the game. In fact, they scored only one and settled for a field goal on the other. I mentioned that GHS has been penalized more often and for more yardage than opponents in the three home wins this year. I will concede that that fact doesn't necessarily convey the importance of those penalties. Six five yard penalties for illegal procedure might not make as much difference to one team as one fifteen yard penalty on 3rd down that effectively kills a drive. (Although most coaches will tell you that a five yard penalty at the right place and right time can be a drive killer too.) But as a general overview, GHS has, in fact, been penalized more often and for more yardage this year than other teams in the three home wins. If the so-claimed widespread belief of extra "home cooking" at Burley Stadium were anything other than inflated perception, then statistics, while not disproving that statement beyond doubt, at least sheds light on specious reasoning. Plausible, but not true. Could it not just simply be that Dobyns Bennett lost a game? I know that doesn't happen too often, but it does happen. Is it too much for you to concede that on September 13, 2002, A. D., Greeneville played a better football game than Kingport?

Bud, Greeneville was flagged 7 times for 63 yards, Volunteer 2 times for 10 yards. Greeneville rushed for 386 yards, Volunteer for 40. Volunteer's quarterback was 0-10 passing for zero yards. Additionally, in Greeneville's three home wins this year, they have been penalized 19 times for 170 yards. The losing opponents have been flagged 10 times for 66 yards. In their one home loss to Knox Central, Greeneville received 5 penalties for 45 yards whereas Knox Central was flagged 14 times for 110 yards. Greeneville lost 31-19. So, to recap, in Greeneville's three home wins, they have been penalized almost twice as often for almost three times the yardage as their opponent, and in their one home loss, the winning team was penalized almost three times as many times for more than twice the yardage. Greeneville versus Dobyns Bennett last year - Kingsport threw four interceptions and lost one fumble. In the game, Greeneville was penalized seven times, Dobyns Bennett five times, two of which came within seconds of each other when Jacob McMillan was ejected from the game at the beginning of the fourth quarter. This came only after McMillan had been held out on offense for the entire 1st half due to lingering effects of injuries in previous games. He was not flagged for a foul and given a warning and then ejected on an ensuing penalty sometime later in the game. His ejection came seconds after the initial foul. For what reason, I do not know. To give him credit, he was carrying the ball very well once he finally got to run. But to say that officiating had an overwhelming effect on the outcome of that game is exaggeration. Five turnovers had more to do with that outcome, coupled with inspired play of the underdog against a perennial powerhouse. Of the Indian's nine possessions, five of them ended with a turnover. One was ended by the end of the first half, two were capped with touchdowns and one stopped by loss of downs. Now look at that and tell me, honestly, how you come to the conclusion that officiating quote "played a major part in the upset of DB last year down there" endquote. Or the Volunteer game last Friday night.

SemperFiBlue, Check out www.greenevillefootball.com. Talk about a site with lots of team history. They're not as old as some of the others mentioned here,but one of the most complete archives of any team I've seen. According to that website, Greeneville and Morristown have been playing since 1916. Morristown split into M East and M West sometime in the 60s or 70s I think, but still a long time. Not consecutive years tho, like those that have played 80 straight years. Incredible!

Found a site about Greeneville football. www.greenevillefootball.com Lots of old team pictures, all the way back to 1919. And the scores from about every game since 1906. Someone went to alot of work, but its got about everything you can imagine about their history.