QUESTION ABOUT PLAYS AT THE PLATE?

[Turnadouble]

BY KNOW MEANS DID THE PLAYER TRY TO INJURE HER.......ITS JUST KINDA HARD TO AVOID CONTACT WHEN IF YOU RUN OUT OF THE BASELINE YOU WILL BE CALLED OUT........

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I know what you are saying but sometimes when your out... your out.You can't say well she didn't have a chance to get to home...the Defense had the ball to the catcher before the runner made it home...that's how the game goes. You can't make the catcher stand back at home plate & wait for the runner to get there. She had to make a choice...stop & let her tag her...go back to 3rd base....run out of the baseline(to avoid contact)...or run into the catcher.

[Bledsoebtheboys]

I know what you are saying but sometimes when your out... your out.You can't say well she didn't have a chance to get to home...the Defense had the ball to the catcher before the runner made it home...that's how the game goes. You can't make the catcher stand back at home plate & wait for the runner to get there. She had to make a choice...stop & let her tag her...go back to 3rd base....run out of the baseline(to avoid contact)...or run into the catcher.

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WELL THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP.......I HAD NEVER SAW IT BEFORE IT JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF IT WAS LEGAL OR NOT......THE UMPS THAT DID THAT GAME SAID SHE DONE NOTHING WRONG.....

[dore83]

BY KNOW MEANS DID THE PLAYER TRY TO INJURE HER.......ITS JUST KINDA HARD TO AVOID CONTACT WHEN IF YOU RUN OUT OF THE BASELINE YOU WILL BE CALLED OUT........

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Just for information purposes...

 

The runner has 3 feet to the left of her running path and 3 feet to the right of her running path if she is attempting to avoid a tag. The baseline is irrelevant - her path is determined by a straight line between where she came from and where she is going. That is 6 feet (plus the width of her body) of flexibility to where she can be legally when there is a play being made on her. If there is no play being made on her, there are no running path restrictions.

[Turnadouble]

WELL THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP.......I HAD NEVER SAW IT BEFORE IT JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF IT WAS LEGAL OR NOT......THE UMPS THAT DID THAT GAME SAID SHE DONE NOTHING WRONG.....

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What area are you in?

[Bledsoebtheboys]

What area are you in?

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CUMBERLAND, BLEDSOE, SEQUATCHIE, HAMILTON, RHEA, MARION, ETC.........

[Turnadouble]

Just for information purposes...

 

The runner has 3 feet to the left of her running path and 3 feet to the right of her running path if she is attempting to avoid a tag. The baseline is irrelevant - her path is determined by a straight line between where she came from and where she is going. That is 6 feet (plus the width of her body) of flexibility to where she can be legally when there is a play being made on her. If there is no play being made on her, there are no running path restrictions.

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You might want to read that again...the runner has 3ft on each side of the baseline to avoid contact with a defenseive player making a play. Like the shortstop making a play on a ground ball she can run 3ft out of the baseline to avoid contact with the player not avoid a tag.

[dore83]

You might want to read that again...the runner has 3ft on each side of the baseline to avoid contact with a defenseive player making a play. Like the shortstop making a play on a ground ball she can run 3ft out of the baseline to avoid contact with the player not avoid a tag.

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I'm not sure what you are saying / asking. You can run 10 feet (an example, could be any distance) out of the baseline if that's what's needed to keep from interferring with a fielder making a play on a batted ball. Moving out of a line only 3 feet near a charging or retreating fielder attempting to field a batted ball quite often isn't enough to insure that there won't be contact or interference (note: interference can occur even without contact - jumping across the top of a glove or the fielder stopping/slowing/changing directions to avoid a runner may also be ruled as interference). Runners are not "glued" or "teathered" to any line unless a fielder is attempting to make a tag. Even then, the line is not the "base line" but the path she has established. For example, a runner rounding first can easily be near the grass line in right field and would be 15-20 feet out of the "baseline." Her path from 1st to 2nd would then become a straight line from there to 2nd base. She would never hit the baseline until arriving at 2B. If it wasn't that way, runners couldn't make turns and would have to run around the bases at 90 degree angles. Another good example would be a pop up to the first baseman. If the protected fielder is standing in the middle of the running lane, the batter/runner must go around her. If the runner veers into foul territory... the wind blows the ball toward the dugout and the first baseman moves further foul as the runner is veering (thus cutting off her altered path)... the runner must still avoid her, even if she has to veer even further foul to the dugout fence line, well outside any 3 foot limit.

 

The only place the 3 foot limitation comes into play is when a fielder is attempting to make a tag. The runner has 3 feet either way, calculated from her "path" to attempt to avoid the tag. The 3 foot distance is basically an arm length. If you could not move 3 feet out of your running path to avoid a tag, then a hook slide or better yet, a wide slide into a base where your entire body is away from the bag/plate and you reach over as far as you can to touch the base/plate with your outstretched hand would result in an out. It sounds like you are attaching the 3 foot limitation to the wrong thing.

Edited April 21, 2005 by dore83

[dmurphy3]

I'm no TSSAA Certified Ump, but I would think it would be legal to run into a catcher or any other infielder if they were blocking a base or the plate and you were trying to advance.

 

The only thing that I would call illegal would be if the runner made an obvious attempt to hurt or punch or kick the catcher.

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a player is suppose to slide into home plate, or at least make an attempt, if they don't they can be ejected from the game. On the other hand i saw a game this year for high school where a girl was blocking third base and tagged a runner out because she didn't make it to the base, but she was called safe. The ump said its a new rule that a base can't be blocked, but that is ridiculous. If a player can run over me trying to get to a base, you better believe im going to block it and make sure she never gets there. Things work both ways. If there's no blocking of the base allowed, there shouldn't be any sliding into a fielder.

[dore83]

a player is suppose to slide into home plate, or at least make an attempt, if they don't they can be ejected from the game.  On the other hand i saw a game this year for high school where a girl was blocking third base and tagged a runner out because she didn't make it to the base, but she was called safe.  The ump said its a new rule that a base can't be blocked, but that is ridiculous.  If a player can run over me trying to get to a base, you better believe im going to block it and make sure she never gets there.  Things work both ways.  If there's no blocking of the base allowed, there shouldn't be any sliding into a fielder.

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That's what several people have tried to address in this thread. The "slide rule" is a myth. There are some local rec leagues across the country that have added their own league rule for league play that requires players to slide, but other than that, there is no requirement in ASA, NSA, FED, or any other rule book for a player to slide, ever. A runner cannot be ejected or called out for not sliding, but they can be called out and/or ejected for crashing into a fielder when they aren't sliding. They merely have to avoid crashing into a fielder. The can stop, reverse, run around, reach their leg through or slide.

 

The new rule is not that a fielder cannot block a base. The new rule is that a fielder cannot block a base without having the ball in her possession. If she has the ball, she can literally lay on top of the bag so that it doesn't even show. Additionally, players cannot run over a player trying to get to a base (see above). There is no rule against sliding into a fielder making a tag. If the fielder has the ball and is blocking the base, it's a clean legal play. If the fielder doesn't have the ball, it is obstruction on the fielder and the runner is safe no matter what happens once the fielder has the ball.

Edited April 22, 2005 by dore83

[nwtnfan]

so.. the fielder cannot set up in position (or block the entire bag) until she has the ball in her hands??? I saw this happen at a game last night where the catcher was set up three feet from home strattling the third base line before the ball was thrown home. It was a bang-bang play. The catcher got the ball just as the runner got there. There was a collision (no one was hurt thankfully) and the runner was called out. So was this obstruction or was she out??? I hope that everyone is clear on this before districts and regional games start.

[dore83]

so.. the fielder cannot set up in position (or block the entire bag) until she has the ball in her hands???  I saw this happen at a game last night where the catcher was set up three feet from home strattling the third base line before the ball was thrown home. It was a bang-bang play. The catcher got the ball just as the runner got there. There was a collision (no one was hurt thankfully) and the runner was called out. So was this obstruction or was she out???  I hope that everyone is clear on this before districts and regional games start.

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Hard to tell what the call was or what the right call should have been based upon the description - this is a good example of "had to be there" to see it and know all the elements. You also didn't say if the runner was out because she crashed into the catcher or because she was tagged out (or perhaps both I guess). There are a lot of "ifs" on this play that come down to timing, player position, and umpire judgement. A catcher can straddle the line or block a base without the ball if she's not impeding a runner. If she has the ball before the runner arrives, she can block, straddle, or whatever and be perfectly legal. If the ball got there at the same time as (or after) contact, it would be obstruction under the new rule. It sounds like the umpire's judgement was that the catcher did not impede the runner prior to possession and had possession before blocking the plate. It also could have just been a bad call.

[Turnadouble]

I'm not sure what you are saying / asking. You can run 10 feet (an example, could be any distance) out of the baseline if that's what's needed to keep from interferring with a fielder making a play on a batted ball. Moving out of a line only 3 feet near a charging or retreating fielder attempting to field a batted ball quite often isn't enough to insure that there won't be contact or interference (note: interference can occur even without contact - jumping across the top of a glove or the fielder stopping/slowing/changing directions to avoid a runner may also be ruled as interference). Runners are not "glued" or "teathered" to any line unless a fielder is attempting to make a tag. Even then, the line is not the "base line" but the path she has established. For example, a runner rounding first can easily be near the grass line in right field and would be 15-20 feet out of the "baseline." Her path from 1st to 2nd would then become a straight line from there to 2nd base. She would never hit the baseline until arriving at 2B. If it wasn't that way, runners couldn't make turns and would have to run around the bases at 90 degree angles. Another good example would be a pop up to the first baseman. If the protected fielder is standing in the middle of the running lane, the batter/runner must go around her. If the runner veers into foul territory... the wind blows the ball toward the dugout and the first baseman moves further foul as the runner is veering (thus cutting off her altered path)... the runner must still avoid her, even if she has to veer even further foul to the dugout fence line, well outside any 3 foot limit.

 

The only place the 3 foot limitation comes into play is when a fielder is attempting to make a tag. The runner has 3 feet either way, calculated from her "path" to attempt to avoid the tag. The 3 foot distance is basically an arm length. If you could not move 3 feet out of your running path to avoid a tag, then a hook slide or better yet, a wide slide into a base where your entire body is away from the bag/plate and you reach over as far as you can to touch the base/plate with your outstretched hand would result in an out. It sounds like you are attaching the 3 foot limitation to the wrong thing.

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Well..... Where do I start???? First I never said that the "baseline" was a straight line from base to base. The runner determines the "baseline" like if she's rounding bases but if she is running from base to base the "baseline" is considered to be a straight line(all reality it is a semi straight line.. depending on your runner). I have never seen any one called out for running out of the baseline unless the ball is in the area.The rule says the runnner is allowed 3 ft on each side of the "baseline" to avoid contact with a defensive player making a play on the ball. I know that 3 ft. not alot but that is what the rule says. All of the examples you listed were really good scenarios.... but it is still considered as the Umpires judgement. We could go back & forth all day about plays that would be questioned by this rule but the bottom line is....The rules give us a guideline .....we make a judgement call. I have never seen an Umpire pull out a tape measure to see if she was over 3ft out of the baseline. Personally...I have never called a girl out for running around, jumping over, stopping & then going around a defensive player(that's making a play) or a runner that runs within my opinion the baseline & slide out to tag the base(most of the time when this happens the ball is @ the base or coming to the base & it's not a matter of "running the baseline" you are sliding out with your arm on or near the bag)....but I have called a runner out for trying to run "around" a tag(most of them are pretty obvious).......all of these are judgement calls. I'll say it again ...do you think it is fair to the Defensive Team to let the runner run all over the place when the defense got the ball to the base before the runner?? On the other hand ...do you not expect the runner to do anything possible to get to that base?? Yes, it is a rat race......both trying to get ahead. That is why we have Umpires. As for you saying "It sounds like you are attaching the 3 foot limitation to the wrong thing". This isn't about I'm right, your wrong or Your right, I'm wrong. It is what the rule book says...take it as you will. The rules give us a guideline .....we make a judgement call.