Between the pipes

[PleaseBallStophere]

Id like to hear your opinion on goalies in TN.

[PleaseBallStophere]

whos the best

[laxative]

Ryan McConnel and Harris Abernathy are 2 goaltenders that people should watch out for this year although i havent had the chance to see them play this year im sure they will both be having some impressive all-state/all-american seasons and are both forces to be reckoned with

[PleaseBallStophere]

I agree on that first statement, although i feel that Barnes from Ravenwood is a more skilled goalie thatn Abernathy. Abernathy has great hands, but the step on bounce shots is not fast enough and off stick hip form needs work. Once again Abernathy is a great goalie- continually impresses me, but i feel that Barnes is a better all around goalie than him.

[dbraves88]

Henry Kay has really stepped it up this filling in some big shoes of some goalies of the past two years for mccallie. Now has become the full time starter for mccallie after his first starts in the lovett and Gilman games. Could be the top goalie in the state by the end of the year.

[h abernathy 07]

did they graduate the one they had last year? what year is barnes?

[ripcurl1]

these goalies haven't even played good teams. if they can't help their teams to wins in the big games then they are not deserving of all state status, at least not 1 or 2 team. these goalies get 15+ put up on them by mus, mccallie, and mba every year.

[StraightUpLaxin]

Yeah thats true, I will give it to abernathy that he is a good goalie but the reason he already has something like 100 plus saves is because he gets shelled by teams like mccallie, mba, and mus. they are shoooting like 50+ shots a game and they cant help but accidentaly hit him and hit pipe. Im not saying he is not any good, but you have to factor in how many shots they are taking.

[h abernathy 07]

we don't count pipe shots as saves

[rav53]

The reason stats are so off from one goalie to another is that the people taking stats are not doing it the same way from team to team.

 

Saves should be calculated as the number of shots "on goal" minus the number of goals. Example: A team takes 25 shots, 15 are on goal, they score 8 - the goalie had 7 saves. But, many teams are giving the goalie 17 saves on this - (making the goalie look like an all-star). However, it is not a save if the ball would not have gone in. A shot that hits pipe is not even on goal. The problem is that most teams count the number of shots, but don't even record which ones are on goal. Therefore, the only way they can calculate goals is the incorrect way. The goalies for teams who are calculating them the right way are unfortunately shown as having poorer stats.

 

Here's an example from Stats Depot:

 

Webb vs. Father Ryan #1 (10-6 Father Ryan)

 

Webb stats say FR took 27 shots, scored 10, thus 17 saves

Father Ryan stats say they (FR) took only 18 shots, 13 of which were on goal, so that would mean 3 saves.

[ripcurl1]

saves are not shots on goal minus goals scored. saves are when the goalie makes a save, even if he gets hit or deflects it, that are on goal.

 

a shot that bounces and goes over the top bar or just to the side are considered on goal. a shot that goes right over the top skimming the top or on the sides is on goal. you have to consider it like a pitcher throwing a curve or breaking ball. it might start outside the strike zone but it eventually comes back in.

 

if a goalie runs out 10 yards and the guy trys to dunk it over him and he jumps up and stops it that is a save.

 

saves do not reflect 100% that someone is a good goalie. to an extent it does but guys get hit due to poor shooting and thus get the high save count when they play a much stronger team or in mismatched games. problem is you have some coaches who are bad coaches and cant rationalize those things.

 

playing goalie and coaching in college i can tell you that when it comes to all american candidates, especially for goalies save percentage is a small portion. i always told myself if you are in the low to high 60s you're in good shape.

 

my senior year i was #2 in the country in save percentage 69.9% among d3 goalies. thats not what got it for me. they look at the schedule and they look at the big games(win or loss) and the playoffs. All of those games I was over 15 saves. I was averaging 67-88% save percentage against those teams, some of which were losses but they were by 1-3 goals, not 10-15.

 

However its my gaa which was a little below 6. Thats what wins the game, not how many you save but how little you let in. its the same with scoring. especially in d3 where you have some horrible teams and none of them are good but you got someone who has like 70 goals, 30 assists. did they play anyone that was a quality team. no. same with goalies. the guy ahead of me was from a school where all the schools in the conference were at the bottom of d3.

 

someone could have 30% save percentage but have a 4.56 gaa. especially if you have a superior defense who doesn't give up a bunch of shots. the team with the fewest allowed wins and thats what they look at. does this kid help his team win. they also look at clearing to but mainly its gaa when you get to college.

[rav53]

Agree 99%. If the goalie stops it from going in - that's a save - whether he is in the crease, kicks it, whatever.

 

My point was mainly that goalies who face 40 shots against them, and 10 goals are scored, should not get credit for 30 saves if some of those shots are 8 feet from the cage. Some of those shots are never going in. If 20 of those shots would have gone in but the goalie stopped them, that is really 10 saves.

 

That is the one discrepancy. How is a shot just over the top of the pipe on goal? If the goalie just stands and watches it, it is not going in. If he catches it above the pipe, that shouldn't be a save. If the shot would have gone in had the goalie not been there, then that is "on goal". So the goalie stops it - thus a save. So, depending on what is called on or off goal will determine the formula for saves.

 

By the way, many of these goalies discussed are super talented. Sometimes one just has to get out and watch them play. The truth is that some have a better supporting cast around them.