Church v. baseball

[viking_fan]

QUOTE(GoOwls314 @ Apr 4 2007 - 11:26 PM) 826430386[/snapback]I agree that whether or not the coach is violating civil rights there is no way to prove it. However, I dont think i would want to play for someone who did not respect my beliefs. But dont point fingers and say that the coach is being anti-(your religion here) because you are sitting the bench either.

 

You guys are kind of missing my point, but I guess I didn't phrase it right. I'm not saying sitting the bench is a violation of civil rights, but if the coach specifically tells the player he is not getting to play because he chose church over going to practice, that is a different story. Of course, I guess you would have a hard time proving that too, would be the coach's word against the player's. I'm not saying players should go around suing coaches because they didn't get to play. Just giving my opinion. As far as the issue of church over baseball, it is a free country, should be the player's right to choose which he wants to do without worrying about repercussions. That's all I'm saying.

[ksgovols]

I agree with the gist of your post viking fan. I just think it's hard to prove intent. A coach would have to be stupid to tell the player he's sitting him for going to church. He could say that playing time is dependent upon participation in all scheduled practices and games. A hard nosed coach could say "no exceptions".

 

I mean, when you get into the real world you don't get 'free days' when a relative dies. I took vacation days when my father died. Were my civil rights violated? Nope. I was scheduled to work that day. I wasn't sick. I didn't have berievement days. It's vacation or a day without pay.

[fuzby]

I understand the concern for not playing on Sundays. But what can you do? Society has to stop trying to influence what can & can't take place on Sundays. I myself miss Mass from time to time & yes us Catholics are #1 in the dept. of guilty consciences. It doesn't make me any less than those of perfect attendance. My college friends from KY would tell me how their preachers would blast the notion of work/activities etc. on Sundays & yet be the 1st to expect full restaurant services & other business etc. to be open. My students were complaining that school should be closed down today (I'm typing this during my lunch) because of the lack of attendance. (Good Friday) And get this, when they asked if we'd get out next year b/c not too many are present today, I said no b/c next year it falls on a Saturday & not 1 kid questioned it. Are there events scheduled today? I would say so. Are all those golfers at the Masters, MLB, NBA players heathens for playing on Easter? It doesn't bother me a bit. Like so many have replied before this post, personal preference to participate should be the accepted concept, yet players & their parents know that schedules, especially tourneys might lead to a conflict.

 

I don't think anyone of us is headed "downstairs" for missing on occasion. But thats just my view.

[maroonandgrey]

QUOTE(Mwalls14 @ Apr 2 2007 - 10:05 PM) 826428558[/snapback]The country was founded under the concept of separation of church and state. When we created a free public education system, they continued to echo those sentiments.

 

that is not accurate because separation of Church and state is not mentioned in the Constitution. The Dec of Ind had many references to god (endowed by our Creator) as does the Bill of Rights

[Mwalls14]

QUOTE(maroonandgrey @ Apr 6 2007 - 03:28 PM) 826431456[/snapback]that is not accurate because separation of Church and state is not mentioned in the Constitution. The Dec of Ind had many references to god (endowed by our Creator) as does the Bill of Rights

 

'

 

Really not interested in teaching history today, but here we go...

 

You can reference to God and "Creator" without implying Christianity. Christians are not the only person who use the term "God", so just because you see that word, it doesn't mean they're talking to you.

 

Again....Christianity is NOT the only religion in this world. References to God do not imply a reference to Christianity, Judaism or Islam. It was absolutely normal to reference to God because, again, the settlers who founded the colonies sought refuge from the Anglican church who had separated itself. The creation of the constitution was a result of the melting pot that the colonies had become with English, Dutch, French and other nationalities. Not to mention, many of the founding fathers were not Christians, they were Deists

 

There is no state religion. There never will be. Just because they reference to "God" does not mean there is a relationship between "Church" and State. It's just language.

 

And I don't know what Bill of Rights or Constitution you've read, because the one I know says, in the very first amendment, mind you

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

Google "Separation of Church and State" It's a pretty common term. It's not like I made it up.

 

And really, it's not like I'm arguing if there's a God or not. I'm not even saying I don't believe in God. I'm simply saying, use facts to support your arguments, and be open minded to the fact that even thought you may BELIEVE in God and you support your beliefs with the words of the Bible, the book will always be disputed for it's "facts" because it's so easy to interpret it in so many different ways, which is why we have so many different denominations of Christianity to being with.

[P.A.Lin-Z]

QUOTE(Mwalls14 @ Apr 6 2007 - 05:48 PM) 826431534[/snapback]'

 

Really not interested in teaching history today, but here we go...

 

You can reference to God and "Creator" without implying Christianity. Christians are not the only person who use the term "God", so just because you see that word, it doesn't mean they're talking to you.

 

Again....Christianity is NOT the only religion in this world. References to God do not imply a reference to Christianity, Judaism or Islam. It was absolutely normal to reference to God because, again, the settlers who founded the colonies sought refuge from the Anglican church who had separated itself. The creation of the constitution was a result of the melting pot that the colonies had become with English, Dutch, French and other nationalities. Not to mention, many of the founding fathers were not Christians, they were Deists

 

There is no state religion. There never will be. Just because they reference to "God" does not mean there is a relationship between "Church" and State. It's just language.

 

And I don't know what Bill of Rights or Constitution you've read, because the one I know says, in the very first amendment, mind you

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

Google "Separation of Church and State" It's a pretty common term. It's not like I made it up.

 

And really, it's not like I'm arguing if there's a God or not. I'm not even saying I don't believe in God. I'm simply saying, use facts to support your arguments, and be open minded to the fact that even thought you may BELIEVE in God and you support your beliefs with the words of the Bible, the book will always be disputed for it's "facts" because it's so easy to interpret it in so many different ways, which is why we have so many different denominations of Christianity to being with.

 

 

I'm sure glad you got us all straight with the little history lesson.

Everbody knows that christians aren't the only people that refer to God.....not really sure where you saw otherwise.

Back to the original subject.....church is straight out of the bible. When someone starts talking about God and they bring up church and going on Sunday....I automatically think their talking about Christianity or atleast that is the way it is in this part of the country. I'm not that shallow as to not know what we're refering to here when we say "church"...... Christ started the church....thus...christianity.

It is true however, there are many different denominations and beliefs on the bible. That is what the constitution is all about. Protecting mine and your rights to believe what ever the heck we want to believe. It's not about the state telling me what I can or cannot believe.....although I think it is leaning that way. That wouldn't be anything new though would it? Almost every society on the face of the earth has at one time or another hated "them" christians....Christ said it would be that way.

I don't think most of us are in any danger though of being persecuted.....we don't do enough for Christ to be convicted of being christian. In a court of law....the burden of proof would be hard to present. The evidence would be hard to find. We might just go free.

[Mwalls14]

QUOTE(P.A.Lin-Z @ Apr 6 2007 - 05:16 PM) 826431546[/snapback]I'm sure glad you got us all straight with the little history lesson.

Everbody knows that christians aren't the only people that refer to God.....not really sure where you saw otherwise.

Back to the original subject.....church is straight out of the bible. When someone starts talking about God and they bring up church and going on Sunday....I automatically think their talking about Christianity or atleast that is the way it is in this part of the country. I'm not that shallow as to not know what we're refering to here when we say "church"...... Christ started the church....thus...christianity.

It is true however, there are many different denominations and beliefs on the bible. That is what the constitution is all about. Protecting mine and your rights to believe what ever the heck we want to believe. It's not about the state telling me what I can or cannot believe.....although I think it is leaning that way. That wouldn't be anything new though would it? Almost every society on the face of the earth has at one time or another hated "them" christians....Christ said it would be that way.

I don't think most of us are in any danger though of being persecuted.....we don't do enough for Christ to be convicted of being christian. In a court of law....the burden of proof would be hard to present. The evidence would be hard to find. We might just go free.

 

 

My point about where I saw "otherwise" was the reference at the beginning of this thread alluding to the idea that the TSSAA had some incentive against religion by allowing games on Sunday. That's ridiculous

 

And I completely agree with your point about the reference to the word "church". You're completely right. However, the use of the word "church" was colloquial. My point is....most people define church with religion, not with Christianity. Whether that's incorrect is really besides the point. So while you are right, the use of the word "church" in any government document was a general reference to religion, not Christianity directly. I remember writing a paper and running across this before.

 

And I'm not here to argue with, or offend anyone. I am a Christian. But faith is what it is, faith. It's unfair to make everyone conform to one set of beliefs, and it's also unfair for any coach to not count religion as an acceptable excuse. If a coach is that worried about winning, don't schedule games that day.