Travelers 16's Finish Strong

[gomerpyle]

The Tennessee Travelers 16-u team posted a 3-1 record, went undefeated in pool play, and reached the Final 16 of the AAU Super Showcase in Orlando. The Showcase is arguably the top 16-u tournament in the nation, featuring 68 teams. The Travelers competed in front of numerous college coaches.

 

The Travelers posted wins over the Tampa Bay Warriors (64-58), Minnesota Magic (45-43), and New York Jaguars (57-35) before falling to the Arkansas Wings (62-54).

 

It should also be noted that Nike-sponsored teams won 12 of 14 pools in which they were placed, and posted an overall record of 36-5 in pool play. Clearly, by virtue of competing on the Nike circuit, the Travelers and YOMCA Tigers have easily played the toughest competition in the state.

[Blackburn]

The Tennessee Travelers 16-u team posted a 3-1 record, went undefeated in pool play, and reached the Final 16 of the AAU Super Showcase in Orlando. The Showcase is arguably the top 16-u tournament in the nation, featuring 68 teams. The Travelers competed in front of numerous college coaches.

 

The Travelers posted wins over the Tampa Bay Warriors (64-58), Minnesota Magic (45-43), and New York Jaguars (57-35) before falling to the Arkansas Wings (62-54).

 

It should also be noted that Nike-sponsored teams won 12 of 14 pools in which they were placed, and posted an overall record of 36-5 in pool play. Clearly, by virtue of competing on the Nike circuit, the Travelers and YOMCA Tigers have easily played the toughest competition in the state.

 

 

I realize your trying to promote your program, but the reason Nike teams won the majority of the pools in Orlando was b/c the field there is mostly Nike teams. All the premier Adidas and Reebok teams are in Las Vegas and a substantial amount of other Nike teams in the Main Event. To say your club and the Tigers have clearly played the toughest competition in the state is highly misleading. You guys have played a nice schedule, but so have several other teams in the state. The Ballerz and the Celtics have played just as tough a schedule or tougher playing in the Adidas and Reebok events.

 

This is an open forum so everyone is welcome to promote their program or team but lets not exaggerate things to try to embellish the benefits of a Nike program vs. any other program, whether it be unsponsored, Adidas or Reebok, especially when the facts certainly dont lean that way. You can argue that Real Deal on the Hill (Reebok Event) is better than Boo Williams and you can definitely argue that Bob Gibbons TOC is better than Memorial Day.

 

Again, fine to promote your club and congrats on a nice pool play run, but lets not get overboard with hyperbole regarding the "Nike circuit".

[gomerpyle]

You can argue those things and say this is misleading, but you are wrong. Nobody is embellishing anything. Real Deal, Kingwood, the Las Vegas events and Bob Gibbons accept anybody that is willing to pay, so any team can play if they can afford it. Boo Williams, Peach Jam, and Nike MDC are invitation-only, so it's obvious that the competition is better at the Nike Tournaments, and Nike MDC has become one of the top tournaments in America.

 

Actually, Nike teams are in the minority at the Super Showcase. But the Nike teams dominated pool play. That is an indicator that competition in the Nike tournaments is much tougher on a game-in, game-out basis.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Indiana Elite won TOC and Kingwood, but the Travelers beat them in Indiana at the Hoosier Shootout.

[gomab2]

I looooove this topic!!! So I'm very eager to jump in!!

 

Let me start, however, by saying congratulations to the Travelers 16s and Coach B!!! Great run at the Showcase!! Classy coach and classy organization...

 

Ok, now on to the topic...

 

It is my opinion that though I do not agree with the Nike circuit being the toughest.

Also, great run by Travs in Hoosier shootout, but they did not beat the Indy Elite 17s team that won Kingwood and TOC. That Indiana Elite team was in Cinncy during the same time for the Adidas Take 5ive Classic...

 

Here are some observations just from the Showcase:

-Super Showcase is a Nike-heavy event

-The Showcase takes anyone these days just like other tourneys. Word is the Harambee Dragons may have been the worst team to compete in any major event all year long. And I continued to look at the pools and saw a high number of poor to mediocre teams.

-Aruably the top Nike 16u team in the Nation, BABC finished 3rd in pool behind two non-Nike teams, including a 13 point loss to a Birmingham Ice team we played (and beat)

-I see 6 teams in the Gold Bracket that are non-nike teams (national christian, reach legends, Lauderdale Lakes, Fl Roadrunners, Fl Elite, charlotte storm)

-Also 10 teams in the Silver Bracket are non-Nike

 

Here are a few more non-Showcase observations:

-Only 3 of the top 15 teams in the latest Top 25 AAU poll for 16u are Nike teams; same with 3 of the top 15 in the 17u in the poll

-Georgia Blazers are considered the Top 17u Nike team this year, or at least top 2 or 3, after winning MDC, final 4 at Peach Jam. Our 17s beat the Blazers by double digits in Houston.

-First hand observation:: It has been fun to see first hand how many talented non-Nike teams there are throughout the country, especially under-the radar teams. Whether teams from years past such as H-Squad and RBC West, or teams this year like Hoop Planet, Team Truth, Carolina Raptors, Augusta Metros/Caveliers, Inner Strength, Fla Ambassadors, SA Roadrunners, T-Mac All Stars, etc...

 

In closing, there are a lot of great teams on the Nike circuit, but there are also a ton of great teams that not.

There is so much talent accross the country, and many not wearing a Nike uni...

[gomerpyle]

Jeremy makes a good point in that there are so many good teams. My argument is that the Nike tournaments are tougher at the pool play level because there are no weak teams. Granted, there are many excellent non-Nike teams. But the Nike tournaments cap the number of entries, ensuring that everyone is pretty good. So at those tournaments, it's harder to get out of pool play.

 

Winning any major tournament is an accomplishment. But I believe it's harder in the early rounds at the Nike events because of the parity. At some events, a good draw will get you into bracket play pretty easily. That is not the case at Nike events.

 

I'm not arguing the talent of many non-Nike teams, because there are some outstanding ones out there. But since Nike has more teams and three invitation-only tournaments, it's just tougher in the earlier rounds there, thus it's harder to get into bracket play. The Nike teams just have a tougher road from pool play into the bracket, so a 2-2 record at MDC or Boo Williams is likely better, depending on the draw, than a 2-2 at TOC or Kingwood. If you get to the quarterfinals and beyond at these events, then it's essentially the same in terms of competition/talent.

[gomab2]

Definitely understand what you're saying. And I do agree that at those three Invite only tourneys, that pool play is ridiculously tough!!

 

My point is two fold: 1) you agree with me, that there are a ton of talented teams, nike and non-nike and 2) that the schedules can be just as tough in pool in Non-Nike events

 

TOC is just that tough. It is Invite only. And the pool are loaded. Our 15s pool consisted of 2 of the top 10 15u teams in the Nation, plus a very good Nike team. Last year our 17s pool had elite level Reebok teams Baltimore Stars and NY Panthers finish 3rd and 4th in pool, though there were High Majors galore between those two rosters. Real Deal at the 17s level is as well for the most part. Two years ago, our pool at Real Deal included the #1 and #2 teams in the Nation at that point, in the same pool!!! (Spiece Indy Heat w/ Oden etc, DC Assault w/ Beasley etc...plus B'ham Raptors).

 

Also at Kingwood, Vegas, Great American Shootout, and even Peach State Summer Showcase, if you are in a "Super Pool" the comp is just as hard as the most loaded Nike events. Nike top dawg GA Blazers finished last in pool in Kingwood in fact. Our 17s finished 2nd in that pool. There is a pool in Vegas right now with Atl Celtics, Playaz, Pump n Run, and Indiana Elite (4 of the top 12 teams in the Nation). In Peach State, the top 6 teams were all in the same Super Pool, and the team that finished last, Fla Ambassadors, had 4 High Majors, including a 7 footer, a 6'8 long F and a pair of athletic 6'6 guards.

 

I love that there is a good, high level, intelligent discussion going on here (thank u gomerpyle and blackburn)...

 

My main point is that there are a number of programs out there in TN that play an Elite schedule (not just elite tournaments) and that I would honestly put our Ballerz schedule up against any team in the state (again not arguing who is better, just schedule toughness). The schedule our 17s played between Great American Shootout, Adidas Atlanta, and Peach State Showcase heading into Super Showcase and Nationals has been nothing less that brutal!!

[gomerpyle]

One of the frustrating things about some tournaments is the way some pools are loaded, while others are easier to get through. Some of this is simply chance. At other times, it isn't. At Nike MDC, two of the top four 15-u teams (BWSL, Jackson Tigers) were in the same pool. Our 17's played well at Boo's tournament, but were in the same pool as California Hoops, who won one of the Vegas tournaments, and Boo, who won the tournament and is outstanding every year. Our 15's and the Y were in the same pool at AAU state, and ended up playing again in the championship game. That was just how the AAU substate pairings rotated this year.

[gomab2]

I completely agree!!!

 

In addition at 15s State, our 15s were in the same pool as you all and the Y, which resulted in narrow 3 and 5 point losses. A case could be made that the top 3 teams at the 15u State were in the same pool (not to take anything away from a very good Celtics team, just saying a case could be made). I guess that's just the way it goes sometimes...

 

But back to the topic, I completely agree with what you are saying. That's why I (and I hope others) try to look at more than just tourney finishes, but who you played as well. Because pool (and even tourney pairings) are often unbalanced, intentionally or not. At King of the South, our 17s had to face SE Elite in pool, and a loss there (with two other wins) pitted us first round against the Atlanta Celtics. So that meant without an upset over one of those two (both ranked top 10 Nationally, and the top 2 teams at the event before half the SE Elite roster went home after pool play), there was no way to advance past the first round of the tourney...

 

I would love to hear some more voices on all of these topics, as this is a very interesting conversation (one of the best on these 'Travel boards' in quite some time)...

[Metro "Ballin"]

What about some of the other "small non-funded" programs in the state? I followed the Fire closely and I saw those Rage kids from Franklin. Seems like they competed with some big dogs, just don't have the prestigious names or history behind them. I heard about and saw the Rage a little bit at Nationals, and they looked suprisingly solid and seem to be a bit under-rated I guess? They lost in the elite 8 by 7 to the National champions. I guess next year according to you guys they (Rage and Fire) need to beef up their schedules,,,,but I'm wondering how they can be invited to such tournaments without any hoopla surronding them! Your thoughts fellas????

[bigyomca]

As someone who has received sponsorship from all 3 shoe companies I can assure you that what you wear on your feet doesn't effect your on floor performance. Having said that, I do believe that Nike runs the best events, something that other shoe co. reps tend to agree with. That's speaking on how the event is organized, not about the talent.

 

When I was un-sponsored it was frustrating not being invited to better events, at the time (15 years ago) there wasn't the number of events as there are now. Every coach wants their players to compete vs. the best and have the best exposure possible so they can enhance their opportunities to be recruited.

 

When speaking of quality events obviously you have to consider the quality of players and teams. The 1st Kingwood was the best event I've ever been involved with in 26 years of coaching, this was before Nike pulled most of their teams, all 3 shoe cos. were well represented.

 

Gibbons is special because of the venues, his talent level is always good and the event is well organized.

 

The Peach Jam is by far (IMHO) the best, from the venue, the crowds, college coaches, usually head coaches, the teams are fed 3 meals a day, players families are admitted for free. It's a heck of an environment.

 

To me, running on time, officals, scorekeepers all go to making a quality event. If these are handled properly and the competition is good then you have the makings of a quality tournament.

[Jim Harrick]

Good and valid points made by all. Our kids played the Ballerz twice this year and you can see why they are a successful program. Did not play the travelers or Tigers, but I do know that the tigers are well ran and that the kids on that team are very good. Played the Memphis Y and they were very solid. When I speak of we, I mean the 16U Franklin Rage. If anybody has advice on where to play and how to get in some big tourney's next year please let me know. Even though we pulled from just one school, our kids still got some decent looks, contacts, and notices from some college coaches. I feel like we more than held our own and hope to compete in some bigger tournaments next year. Looking forward to some more ball and love the talk.

[gomerpyle]

Some tournaments, such as TOC and Kingwood, have gotten too big. They attract great competition, but take too many teams. All growth is not good growth. We (Travelers) won the first TOC, and there were only 24 teams. But all 24 were really good. The Charlotte Royals won the AAU 17's that year, and they didn't make it out of their pool - had Antwan Jamison. Boo Williams, with Iverson, lost in the semis. I remember we went over the scouting report with our team, then show up for the championship game and are playing a team from Winston-Salem. Our guards, Drew Maddux and Micah Marsh, had great games, and we won easily.

 

There comes a point when tournaments get too big. When you have to play 4-5 games in a day if you keep winning, that's counterproductive. TOC, however, offers great facilities, and Bob does a great job of putting everything together.

 

The Nike tournaments are at a different level in terms of how they are run. Almost anyone who has played in one will agree. When Boo Williams gets his facility built, the trio of Boo Williams, Nike MDC, and Peach Jam will be unmatched. Since the Nike tournaments are smaller (32 17-u teams at MDC), all pool games are extremely tough. There are NO easy games like there are in some of the other tournaments. I agree that once you get deep into the tournaments, there is no difference in the talent level of Nike v. non-Nike, but pool play at Nike tournaments is brutal regardless of the draw. At other tournaments, it might or might not be a tough pool.