high school or club

[RogerHBrock00]

I would have to agree that is it is a GREAT idea to play club ball if your daughter or player is wanting to pursue a college career in volleyball. But, I must address the coach questions. They're several coaches that may not be as "skilled" as others, yet who is the one to judge that? ANd how do you come up with that conclusion? I would think unless YOU have been a coach, or been around the sport..it would be very dissrespectful to judge another on their capabilities to coach a team. Anyone can coach a team of all state players, but what if you have a team that is just not quite that gifted? Being a former coach myself, it really irritates me to see a parent jump so fast. In all reality, maybe the coaches who don't run plays don't have the "skills" on the team to run the plays? Maybe a quick might not get a great pass before it, if you catch my drift?

Coaches don't coach for the money...they do it for the love of the game, and the love of teaching the game. Maybe we need to be more concerned with how to help rather than quickly criticize...I know several club ball coaches that have destroyed my former players..the club ball coach promised them "ungodly talent" and in return that child should win every game, every tournament, and be All Conference, All Region and All State..then when the high school coach gets them....they are faced with "mediocre skills".

I have learned ..when you win, it's the players...when you lose, it's the coach. A sad reality but accepted if you want to be a part of the coaching family.

Lastly, if part of the coaches advice is to "Move your feet" ...I am guessing, and again just a hunch, that someone or ones on that team need to "MOVE THEIR FEET"..rather than run a "32". We can only work with what we are given, and hopefuly teach these girls life lessons, get them to grow and mature...and refine skills in the great sport of volleyball. Please don't be so fast to judge....

 

 

The question who the skilled or great coaches are is interesting. Its neat how many coaches started having great programs when club ball started teaching their kids how to play volleyball. A true miracle in sports happens when championships are won by the teams with the most club players and the worst teams have no club players on them.

How many programs force their kids to play club ball? I know of one.

 

To make this argument simple for all. How many volleyball coaches would succeed at Howard High School here in Chattanooga. Answer 2 possibly 3. You have a group of talented athletes, with little family support, no previous volleyball skills or experience, sometimes low motivation. But what potential. They are bigger, faster, quicker and explode off the floor compared to the girls playing in privates or the suburban schools (The schools with money).

 

The coach would need to be able to teach and communicate volleyball skills from the raw basic fundamentals to the advance, need to be able to adapt all drills to each player skills and competency, and work long, long hours to get the job done and will recieve little or no help from anyone.

 

The answer is simple. There are very few coaches who know the game well enough, are great teachers of the game and can motivate and keep the attention of todays kids. A lot of the people who you think are great coaches are nothing more than great recuiters. This isn't the only sport like this. Softball coaches are worse. All they have to do is get the numbers right on the lineup cards to win as long as the summer caoches keep feeding them the "A" ball ballplayers.

[RogerHBrock00]

It just accured to me the original question was if you could only pick one - which is only part of a question. Only one for what? The real answer is that it depends on the individual and where they live. I'd say a large portion of girls in TN only have the option of playing in HS. Then a portion have an option to play both and may or may not choose to play club depending on distance, $, quality of club team, desire, or what ever. Not every club experience will be good as not all HS experiences are good. Surely not every girl that plays HS and/or club have a desire to play in college at all. I never had the opportuinty to play in HS or College, (location, location, location) but later in life when I did have the chance, I played all I could. Love of the game. Club, HS, and college are all slightly different games that call for slightly different atheletes. You may be a 5'8" ALL-STATE OH, but you are probably going to have to master a different position or play at a lesser college - which is ok if that is what you want. You might be a 6'2" terror, but get a academic scholarship to some brainy school that doesn't have a volleyball program. /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> Oh, golly, tears on my keyboard. I got to go wipe this up before I get elecccccccttttttttricuted

 

Im ok /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

 

I would like to point out to everyone again that every senior who played at East Ridge High School who wanted a college scholarship got one. A lot of volleyball players had options and played another sport in college but that was a result of a smaller student body and a core group of girls playing two or three sports. A remarkable achievement that everyone has overlooked. No help from clubs during Coachs" !st 43 years coaching.

 

How was it done. Starting in middle school the vollyball players started getting college level coaching from Coach Brock and when they got to high school they were ready to play. Note East Ridge High School JV has won or finished in the top of the jv tournament almost every year since they have had a jv schedule. At one point The coaches took six teams in a row to the state tournament with zero returning starters. They started a senior line up each year.

 

Another remarkable achievement. The teams that they took to state tournament each year was the same lineup used in the Hamilton County Middle School championships 4 years earlier. When my daughters team won the state in 05 their line up was the exact same as the one which finished second in the middle school tournament 4 years earlier.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE KIDS ON THE TEAM THAT WON THE MIDDLE SCHOOL CHAMPIOSHIP.

 

If your child wants to play college ball and you cannot afford club(It is expensive) bring them to East Ridge Middle School and they can get the best coaching in the state for free. Without a dought Neely and Brock are the best coaching staff in Tennessee. Plus I'M very bias.

[catuballer]

The question who the skilled or great coaches are is interesting. Its neat how many coaches started having great programs when club ball started teaching their kids how to play volleyball. A true miracle in sports happens when championships are won by the teams with the most club players and the worst teams have no club players on them.

How many programs force their kids to play club ball? I know of one.

 

To make this argument simple for all. How many volleyball coaches would succeed at Howard High School here in Chattanooga. Answer 2 possibly 3. You have a group of talented athletes, with little family support, no previous volleyball skills or experience, sometimes low motivation. But what potential. They are bigger, faster, quicker and explode off the floor compared to the girls playing in privates or the suburban schools (The schools with money).

 

The coach would need to be able to teach and communicate volleyball skills from the raw basic fundamentals to the advance, need to be able to adapt all drills to each player skills and competency, and work long, long hours to get the job done and will recieve little or no help from anyone.

 

The answer is simple. There are very few coaches who know the game well enough, are great teachers of the game and can motivate and keep the attention of todays kids. A lot of the people who you think are great coaches are nothing more than great recuiters. This isn't the only sport like this. Softball coaches are worse. All they have to do is get the numbers right on the lineup cards to win as long as the summer caoches keep feeding them the "A" ball ballplayers.

 

 

Could not agree more. Very well put! Thank you for articulating what I have been trying to say about this issue. You are spot on!

[Corby @ On the Ball]

Here's a link to the cover story for the October issue of On the Ball Middle Tennessee about club volleyball's influence on scholastic volleyball by Doug Dyer.

 

http://ontheballmag.com/headlines.cfm?m=2&a=292

[TheGreatLineJudge]

Here's a link to the cover story for the October issue of On the Ball Middle Tennessee about club volleyball's influence on scholastic volleyball by Doug Dyer.

 

http://ontheballmag.com/headlines.cfm?m=2&a=292

 

 

I'm always happy to see coverage of our sport, as we get so little of it. But the cover was amazing! I read the piece two weeks ago when I picked up the hard copy. I've been meaning to e-mail you guys ever since. BEAUTIFUL piece of writing. Seriously the best volleyball article I've ever read in this state. Great short-n-sweet on the history of volleyball in Tennessee and the effect of club on play. Excellent sources and I'm really glad you put mostly facts in the piece - and allowed the reader to decide their own opinion. Also liked the spotlights, by school, on some volleyball players from schools you'll never really hear from otherwise.

 

Thank you for doing us a major service. PLEASE keep it up. I hope you'll come out to the club tournaments in the area when club season rolls around.

 

By the way, if you're from the Tennessean and reading this, fire that clown who wrote the last piece and hire that Dyer fellow. THAT man knows how to write about volleyball! /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[VballDaddy78]

Thank you for doing us a major service. PLEASE keep it up. I hope you'll come out to the club tournaments in the area when club season rolls around.

 

By the way, if you're from the Tennessean and reading this, fire that clown who wrote the last piece and hire that Dyer fellow. THAT man knows how to write about volleyball! /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

Definitely a well written, well researched Vball article. I have to agree, one of the best I've seen written, originating from Tennessee.

[TheGreatLineJudge]

Take a step away from the actual playing side of it for a moment.

 

How do you compare the team selection process? The tournaments/competition? The chemistry OR lack of it? The support from relevant members of the program? Let's go a step further in depth on this discussion.

[catuballer]

Take a step away from the actual playing side of it for a moment.

 

How do you compare the team selection process? The tournaments/competition? The chemistry OR lack of it? The support from relevant members of the program? Let's go a step further in depth on this discussion.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm................

 

How do you compare the team selection process? Not sure what you mean? Team selection process? How you pick players on teams?

 

I will try. In high school, it all depends on the coach. Can be fairly political. Best players usually play, but sometimes upper classmen get the nod due to loyalty. Best players are usually club players. Public schools must rely on luck of the draw as it relates to players who happen to live in their school district - unless of course they happen to live in Brentwood, where people will move to in order to play on a state championship team. Some parents will even move school districts in order for their kids to play/or not play for a certain coach/school - not just Brentwood.

 

Club - Club directors actively recruit the best talent/height. It is a battle - especially between Impact and Williamson Select. The clubs are in fierce competition. It sometimes comes down to which players want to play for which coaches and some players form friendships and just want to play on the same team with one another. Face it some people do not like the leadership/coahing a Impact, so they go to Williamson Select. Then they go there and find out it is not perfect over ther either. Either way, they are both too expensive and are not up to par with the top teams in the country.

 

The tournaments/competition?

 

The only way club teams in Nashville will be able to compete at the open level nationally, is by joining forces and making sure they have the best talent playing on the best teams from the entire mid-state area. Also, don't let Impact mislead you into thinking they have won true national championships. They can't compete for the top prize. They only compete for - what I call - consolation prizes. Their so called - "national championship" team was not at the top level.

 

High school tournaments and competition are both much more fun. Kids will always remember playing for state titles, etc. It is not near as competitive, but it is fun. Remember this. A very good 15 year old club team would win the state AAA TSSAA tournament

 

The chemistry OR lack of it?

 

Clubs usually have good chemistry on good teams - especially if the coach is not too much of a tyrant. Kids get to spend a lot of time together playing in hotels (that are very expensive) It is not quite like high school though, because kids really don't care about winning as much, because it is more about personally shining so they can get a scholarship - especially at the older age groups.

 

If you have a decent high school coach, chemistry is much better, because they have a common goal of winning and it is more important than individual accomplishments.

 

The support from relevant members of the program?

 

Support for high school is from the parents. school administratin and students. Their is school pride at stake. In club, the club directors care about winning and individual development, because it is a reflection of their program. They want their kids getting scholarships, because it draws more people to their clubs, which ultimately means more money for the club. Winning is important, because good players want to play for good teams, and it is a vicious cycle which revolves around the almighty dollar for club directors.

 

There will be those that say, trust me, club coaches are not in it for the money. You are correct. If you add up the hours they put in, they make peanuts on the dollar. However, let me remind you -AAU basketball coaches don't get paid. PERIOD. Why the difference?

 

Longest post ever on coacht by anyone - except for every post ever written by PHargis

[TheGreatLineJudge]

You are correct in postulating what I was after, catuballer. I'm looking to compare "everything else" but the play itself. If we are going to compare the two to each other, we must compare everything.

 

Surely there are some other elements that I'm not thinking about.

 

P.S. I used to make some incredibly long posts about rules and their interpretation/analysis. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

[TNKen]

Chasing you back a post or two. Look at what the teams from large areas can put together, such as A5, Virginia Elite, Dayton Jr. simply because of the sheer population of the area. Then we have upper East Tennessee, that has great talent, but four clubs here in Sullivan County alone. Cobras, NETVC, KVC in Kingsport, and Sullivan South's team club. Between these four clubs, we probably have nearly 300 players. Simply put, individually, it is difficult to compete with the top teams from these clubs. If these clubs were together with a larger pool of players, results might be different. Our club does amazingly well with what we have.

 

And I disagree with Catuballer that winning is paramount in club. At the younger level, player development takes precedent. I might agree that when you reach the 17's and 18's it becomes more important. But what is winning if you don't play to your level of competition? You can brag about winning the Eastman Invitational, but what did you win? No offense to the tournament whatsoever, but I think you have to look at the level of competition before you look at the win/loss record.

 

I also think you have to look at club placement with the player's goals in mind. Is she D1 material, D2 or NAIA. There aren't enough "star" players for every school to pick up two or three each year. The top recruits don't go to MudPuddle Universtiy, but MPU has a team that needs college level players, players with skill, but that may not meet the height requirements of a 6'2" front line at a D1A school. And maybe not a player that was a finalist in all the power regionals and went onto play in the final four of nationals.

 

Anyway, late night ramblings.

 

Ken

[PHargis]

Hmmmmmmmmmm................

 

How do you compare the team selection process? Not sure what you mean? Team selection process? How you pick players on teams?

 

I will try. In high school, it all depends on the coach. Can be fairly political. Best players usually play, but sometimes upper classmen get the nod due to loyalty. Best players are usually club players. Public schools must rely on luck of the draw as it relates to players who happen to live in their school district - unless of course they happen to live in Brentwood, where people will move to in order to play on a state championship team. Some parents will even move school districts in order for their kids to play/or not play for a certain coach/school - not just Brentwood.

 

Club - Club directors actively recruit the best talent/height. It is a battle - especially between Impact and Williamson Select. The clubs are in fierce competition. It sometimes comes down to which players want to play for which coaches and some players form friendships and just want to play on the same team with one another. Face it some people do not like the leadership/coahing a Impact, so they go to Williamson Select. Then they go there and find out it is not perfect over ther either. Either way, they are both too expensive and are not up to par with the top teams in the country.

 

The tournaments/competition?

 

The only way club teams in Nashville will be able to compete at the open level nationally, is by joining forces and making sure they have the best talent playing on the best teams from the entire mid-state area. Also, don't let Impact mislead you into thinking they have won true national championships. They can't compete for the top prize. They only compete for - what I call - consolation prizes. Their so called - "national championship" team was not at the top level.

 

High school tournaments and competition are both much more fun. Kids will always remember playing for state titles, etc. It is not near as competitive, but it is fun. Remember this. A very good 15 year old club team would win the state AAA TSSAA tournament

 

The chemistry OR lack of it?

 

Clubs usually have good chemistry on good teams - especially if the coach is not too much of a tyrant. Kids get to spend a lot of time together playing in hotels (that are very expensive) It is not quite like high school though, because kids really don't care about winning as much, because it is more about personally shining so they can get a scholarship - especially at the older age groups.

 

If you have a decent high school coach, chemistry is much better, because they have a common goal of winning and it is more important than individual accomplishments.

 

The support from relevant members of the program?

 

Support for high school is from the parents. school administratin and students. Their is school pride at stake. In club, the club directors care about winning and individual development, because it is a reflection of their program. They want their kids getting scholarships, because it draws more people to their clubs, which ultimately means more money for the club. Winning is important, because good players want to play for good teams, and it is a vicious cycle which revolves around the almighty dollar for club directors.

 

There will be those that say, trust me, club coaches are not in it for the money. You are correct. If you add up the hours they put in, they make peanuts on the dollar. However, let me remind you -AAU basketball coaches don't get paid. PERIOD. Why the difference?

 

Longest post ever on coacht by anyone - except for every post ever written by PHargis

Cat, you're right but as you already know, length only gets you rebuttal comments. This is one post along with the ones from Brock that I can very well agree with so i will stop there.

[Hoganknows]

I'd would suggest my daughter play Club instead of High School, so she could enjoy her Fall Friday Night Lights at Football games where most of the student body is!!!!