red or yellow?

[justlookin]

I understand a red card needs to be used to keep players safe from dangerous play. How is a red card justified for the use of profanity (not directed to adults or as a threat) without warning? The profanity is not ok, but it is a yellow card infraction in my book. A red card seriously impacts not only the present game but subsequent action, especially important in post season play. Any thoughts on the issue?

[BigG]

Personally, I don't think enough cards are given for profanity as it is. My kids come to my game (ages 5 and 7) as well as most of my middle school students, and they don't need to be 1. exposed to that 2. shown that it is what is acceptable as a highschool athlete.

 

 

That's just my opinion, though, and I tend to be more conservative than others. I just think that these athletes don't realise the influence they have on the young people that come to watch.

 

Now, as to this offense in the thread... I haven't ever seen a immediate red card for profanity (I thought the rule was yellow, but they may have changed) Alot would be determined by any other "unnofficial warnings" the ref might have given the player before the card.

[Siegel Soccer]

These are the rules that may apply to the situation:

 

Section 8 : Misconduct

 

Article 1. A player, coach, or bench personnel shall be cautioned (yellow card) for:

d. any incidental use of vulgar or profane language

 

Article 3: Taunting - A player, coach, or bench personnel shall be disqualified (red card) for:

b. taunting - use of word or act to incite or degrade an opposing player, coach, referee or other individual

f. using insulting, offensive or abusive language or gesture

 

While I strongly agree that profane language should not be tolerated... a 2 and a half game suspension seems harsh for some incidents involving profanity. If name calling is involved ... sure that is a direct verbal attack on a player/person. Personally, if a player on my team gets even a yellow for profanity they pay for it at the next practice and usually sit for the duration of the half in which the offense is committed.

 

It is alot of responsibility for a referee to shoulder. One red card not only punishes the team playing during the match, but that player must sit an additional two matches (a 2 and a half game suspension). Regardless, teams have to regroup and move on, hopefully learning a valuable lesson in the process.

 

It is an emotional game. Punishments should fit the offense.

[ETSU_BucSoccerFan]

It should be a yellow card. section 8, misconduct in the NFHS, any incidental use of vulgar or profane lanugage, However, Art 3b, states if it is used towards an opposing player, coach referee or other individual to degrade or incite them, then 3g states using insulting, offensive or abusive language or gesture, then it's an automatic red.

[ETSU_BucSoccerFan]

Wow! A two game suspension!! That does seem harsh, is this a new rule?

[oknative]

Personally, I don't think enough cards are given for profanity as it is. My kids come to my game (ages 5 and 7) as well as most of my middle school students, and they don't need to be 1. exposed to that 2. shown that it is what is acceptable as a highschool athlete.

That's just my opinion, though, and I tend to be more conservative than others. I just think that these athletes don't realise the influence they have on the young people that come to watch.

 

Now, as to this offense in the thread... I haven't ever seen a immediate red card for profanity (I thought the rule was yellow, but they may have changed) Alot would be determined by any other "unnofficial warnings" the ref might have given the player before the card.

 

BigG - I don't have the rulebook in front of me, but the rules do make for differences in language fouls that would warrant either a yellow or red. I think the working used for a yellow card in "incidental", as opposed to the red card language refers to "abusive".

 

I don't think the NFHS rules directly address criteria for language, but the USSF advice to referees may do so - which is a pretty good guideline, referring to the 3 "p"s when it comes to language. Those are: 1) Public 2) Personal and 3) Provocative. That said, one referee's opinion as to what is provocative or profane, may be quite different from another. For instance, a player who says "thats BS" to a call of mine, might not get a card for language, but is going to get a card for dissent. However, another referee might consider it two different fouls - both a language foul and dissent. Its one of those subjective areas in officiating that tends to be personal, since there isn't a published list of "illegal" words.

 

On the field, I generally try to speak to players regarding "watching their language" and may tolerate a little bit, early in the game - but try not to let it continue. I have given one red card for abusive language without warning - to a player who used the "f" word and directed if loudly to a player on an opposing team. Someone who says it quietly to them selves might get a verbal warning before action.

 

The difficulty with controlling language is only multiplied in the two-man high school system of refereeing. Its awfully difficult to hear what players are saying to each other when they are in the middle of the field and I'm 20-30 yards away protecting the offside call. I know its being said on the field, but if you don't hear it, you can't call it.

[cincyred]

When the captains meet for the coin toss, the center ref should remind the captains that profanity can and will be a cardable offense. The center ref should also instruct the captains of other "points of emphasis" as to how he/she will call the game. Sort of like the referees instructions befor a prize fight.

[oknative]

Article 3: Taunting - A player, coach, or bench personnel shall be disqualified (red card) for:

b. taunting - use of word or act to incite or degrade an opposing player, coach, referee or other individual

f. using insulting, offensive or abusive language or gesture

 

Siegel - Just to clarify that taunting does not need to be profane to qualify as taunting. And this is another broad area as to what different referees consider taunting. I've see referees red card a player for "shining the shoes" after a goal, and have seen it for racial slurs that weren't really profane. A lot of gray area in this left up to the official to determine if something is inciting or degrading. Personally, I'd like to see a sample list from the NFHS of specific examples they consider taunting.

[oknative]

When the captains meet for the coin toss, the center ref should remind the captains that profanity can and will be a cardable offense. The center ref should also instruct the captains of other "points of emphasis" as to how he/she will call the game. Sort of like the referees instructions befor a prize fight.

 

I like the idea of giving one or two points of emphasis at a pregame meeting with the captains, but I don't think referees should have to go over what they will and won't call in a game. Hopefully, the players already know the rules before they step onto the field. I shouldn't have to remind them not to use the "f" word.

[justlookin]

These are the rules that may apply to the situation:

 

Section 8 : Misconduct

 

Article 1. A player, coach, or bench personnel shall be cautioned (yellow card) for:

d. any incidental use of vulgar or profane language

 

Article 3: Taunting - A player, coach, or bench personnel shall be disqualified (red card) for:

b. taunting - use of word or act to incite or degrade an opposing player, coach, referee or other individual

f. using insulting, offensive or abusive language or gesture

 

While I strongly agree that profane language should not be tolerated... a 2 and a half game suspension seems harsh for some incidents involving profanity. If name calling is involved ... sure that is a direct verbal attack on a player/person. Personally, if a player on my team gets even a yellow for profanity they pay for it at the next practice and usually sit for the duration of the half in which the offense is committed.

 

It is alot of responsibility for a referee to shoulder. One red card not only punishes the team playing during the match, but that player must sit an additional two matches (a 2 and a half game suspension). Regardless, teams have to regroup and move on, hopefully learning a valuable lesson in the process.

 

It is an emotional game. Punishments should fit the offense.

 

 

Thanks for the actual rule quote. That is really the most helpful measure as opposed to someone's opinion. I don't think anyone can condone profanity, however, there seems to be a rule to address its use. Punishment for one offense of 2 and one half games seems not only excessive but almost targeted. However, a team at this level that has talent and class will be able to regroup, move on, and succeed. Other players will step up!

[BigG]

Wow, great replies! (I was too lazy to get my NFHS rule book out and annoyed that they don't have it on line)

 

OKnative, what area do you ref? (just curious). Sounds like you would be a good one, based on your previous posts and knowledge of the game.

 

As far as the profanity, not too many refs enforce this rule (which I think is a shame). 2 game suspension does seem harsh, but players need to tame their tongues, just as us coaches need to set good examples as well. While all coaches have bad moments (myself included) I believe a player gets away with what a coach allows or demonstrates him/herself.

[cincyred]

One of the many things that make soccer the "beautiful game" are the small number of black/white rules. The referee has the ability to manage the game and allow it to bloom on it's own. Pre-game instructions are vital so the players understand what will and will not be tolerated by a particular referee.