Bad Officials

[Canesoverhere]

My only complaint to threads like this that they tend to chew on one or two calls that are the bane of spectators of the game. Why don't you ever complain about the mistakes the players make. The missed shots. The missed passes. Letting an attacker through untouched. Missing a PK. Not to mention all the fouls that are committed by players and correctly called by referees.

 

How is is that one or two mistakes or errors in a game by a referee are perceived to determine the outcome of a game, yet the dozens and dozens and dozens of mistakes by players don't seem to influence your opinion of the outcome. Why is the animousity that is given towards referees, not also directed at players mistakes.

 

I guess it's just easier to make the referees the scapegoats of most losses.

 

1. This goal would not have changed the outcome.

2. Your comments are interesting but simply the better players will remeain on the field, those that err will either find less palying tme or will find no playing time.

3. Despite our comments, you still fail to provide a evaluation system that keeps the officiating fair all games, not just the games that the officials are being monitored. Yes, there are not many officials that make bad calls, but in several posts, t seems clear it was poor judgement. There should be a check and balance.

4. Despite your reply, you still failed to answer the question, but you asked several of your own.

[JustWin]

Having been a soccer referee before I know how tough it is to get every call right. It seems as you can never have the perfect angle on the call. Almost every call can go either way. I have no problem with the foul being called on Govea the other night but rather the red card that she was given. I've seen a lot of games and I've never seen the center ref send off a player for a play like that(a questionable foul as well). A yellow would've been so much more acceptable. I don't understand how the ref can give a red to a player, the best on the team nonetheless, who committed a questionable foul.

[socref1]

1. This goal would not have changed the outcome.

2. Your comments are interesting but simply the better players will remeain on the field, those that err will either find less palying tme or will find no playing time.

3. Despite our comments, you still fail to provide a evaluation system that keeps the officiating fair all games, not just the games that the officials are being monitored. Yes, there are not many officials that make bad calls, but in several posts, t seems clear it was poor judgement. There should be a check and balance.

4. Despite your reply, you still failed to answer the question, but you asked several of your own.

 

I'll reply to this:

 

1. I am a soccer referee, and my perspective is my opinion. I have been doing this at a very very high level, for over 10 years. I have over a thousand games. Some I would like to forget, but have learned from them. I will say I am not an expert nor do I speak for all my collegues. But the duty of the referee isn't to change the outcome of a game. Players do that with their actions, for better or worse. Referees make decisions based on those actions, and they must decide in a fraction of a second.

 

2. All players make mistakes. Good players mistakes usually dont cost games. Everyone errs. No exceptions. A reserve player that makes a mistake will not play alot. A starter that makes a mistake will have it looked over.

 

3. An evaulation system that works best has always been peer review. That being said, spectators are not the referees peers. So the evaluation system chosen by the fans; boos and cheers, is obviously biased. The check and balance comes from the similar check and balance for players - performance. If the referee doesnt perform they dont get the gig. Qualified assessors at high level matches are always present at the pro level, however assessors, who are or were active referees, are not always available for HS or competetive play. Some referee organizations provide feedback forms to the coaches. Coaches can select to "blacklist" an official. I have never been "blacklisted" to my knowledge.

 

4. My only question is "Why take the emphasis away from the game and players, and make a neutral party the center of attention? Someone on this forum said, "Get over it". Sounds like good advice.

 

Honor the game, honor the players, but please refrain from bashing officials. Disagreement with them does not help. Players know this. Coaches know this. Referees know this. If you referee and are in the stands, please honor your code. Use disagreement as a teaching tool, or a point of emphasis to less knowledgable observers.

[socref1]

If the girl hit the other girl in the face with her elbow, with intent to do harm, with reckless force, thats a straight red. No questions asked. If arms were flailing carelessly and mindlessly connect, it probably rises to the occasion of a yellow card. But its one of those "in the opinion of the referee" as to the degree of misconduct. It is a foul and the perp will be disciplined. Doesnt matter what number is on the back, or whether she wears the captains armband. The point of fact, in the Laws of the Game, that Serious Foul Play is a send off offense. Striking in the fashion described rises to that occasion. I also don't believe people who are not referees are qualified to tell you how to get better. There is no basis for them to make a helpful suggestion, other than to ..... I think we can improve the quality of our game with more game experience to draw on. You learn the laws not from a book, or a class room, but seeing them in practice under real game situations. Positive citicism is welcome however, synicism and flippancy are not required. We do desire to improve to give the players our very best. Too bad all at the field are not held accountable to that high standard. I cant remember how many times a drunken person meandered over to my line to tell me his daughter was not offside yada yada...

[oknative]

There are a hundred post that talk about player performance thats why i made this one about the officials

 

I completely disagree. Where are the posts the say "Hendersonville Players' Foul hurts chance for Post Season"? Where are the posts that say"Last Minute Foul by Beech Player costs Beech District Champtionship"? They aren't there because you simply don't trash players the way you trash referees.

[Bigdog01]

It doesn't matter what level you're playing at bad call happen. I was at the Vanderbilt vs Miss St game yesterday and the ref blew a call in Miss St's box in the 2nd OT and it resulted in a goal winning the game for Vandy. So don't think that High School is the only place that bad calls affect the games! /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

[Canesoverhere]

I'll reply to this:

 

1. I am a soccer referee, and my perspective is my opinion. I have been doing this at a very very high level, for over 10 years. I have over a thousand games. Some I would like to forget, but have learned from them. I will say I am not an expert nor do I speak for all my collegues. But the duty of the referee isn't to change the outcome of a game. Players do that with their actions, for better or worse. Referees make decisions based on those actions, and they must decide in a fraction of a second.

 

2. All players make mistakes. Good players mistakes usually dont cost games. Everyone errs. No exceptions. A reserve player that makes a mistake will not play alot. A starter that makes a mistake will have it looked over.

 

3. An evaulation system that works best has always been peer review. That being said, spectators are not the referees peers. So the evaluation system chosen by the fans; boos and cheers, is obviously biased. The check and balance comes from the similar check and balance for players - performance. If the referee doesnt perform they dont get the gig. Qualified assessors at high level matches are always present at the pro level, however assessors, who are or were active referees, are not always available for HS or competetive play. Some referee organizations provide feedback forms to the coaches. Coaches can select to "blacklist" an official. I have never been "blacklisted" to my knowledge.

 

4. My only question is "Why take the emphasis away from the game and players, and make a neutral party the center of attention? Someone on this forum said, "Get over it". Sounds like good advice.

 

Honor the game, honor the players, but please refrain from bashing officials. Disagreement with them does not help. Players know this. Coaches know this. Referees know this. If you referee and are in the stands, please honor your code. Use disagreement as a teaching tool, or a point of emphasis to less knowledgable observers.

 

I appreciate your input. Despite the best of my efforts to spell this out, most seem to misunderstand. This wasn't a "blown call". This wasn't a "close call". This wasn't a "mistake". A ball was kicked into the goal and past the post by a goalie, not only did the ball go into the goal, but the goalie did too. I saw it, the players saw it, the goalie kick the ball out of the goal in disgust as she knew it, the lines man called it a goal. The center, apparently not wanting an "own goal" to change the result of the game, over-ruled the linesman, yet the center did not, could not see what actually took place because they were so far away. My point: no official has the right to influence the outcome of a game by removing a goal.

 

This level of soccer, girls and boys, has risen dramatically over the past ten years. It is time for a major overhaul in the way in which officials are credentialed and monitored. This is not only true of high school, but club, college, and after the world cup debacle, the world's stage as well. Those of you (probably most) who call the good game should look upon this as a "good thing", and stop playing "protect thy brother".

[oknative]

1. This goal would not have changed the outcome.

2. Your comments are interesting but simply the better players will remeain on the field, those that err will either find less palying tme or will find no playing time.

3. Despite our comments, you still fail to provide a evaluation system that keeps the officiating fair all games, not just the games that the officials are being monitored. Yes, there are not many officials that make bad calls, but in several posts, t seems clear it was poor judgement. There should be a check and balance.

4. Despite your reply, you still failed to answer the question, but you asked several of your own.

 

1. Then why does it matter so much. Other than that, its just whining.

2. You may believe that "better" players don't committ fouls, but only if you're in a Disney movie. Not in the real world of soccer.

3. I haven't failed anything, and you have yet to provide an evaluation system either.

4. Should a center referee consider the input from an AR. Yes. Can a center referee overrule a call from an AR? Yes. Why? Its in the rules. You want to know why he did so? Ask him - I wasn't there.

[Canesoverhere]

1. Then why does it matter so much. Other than that, its just whining.

2. You may believe that "better" players don't committ fouls, but only if you're in a Disney movie. Not in the real world of soccer.

3. I haven't failed anything, and you have yet to provide an evaluation system either.

4. Should a center referee consider the input from an AR. Yes. Can a center referee overrule a call from an AR? Yes. Why? Its in the rules. You want to know why he did so? Ask him - I wasn't there.

 

1. To remove poor representatives of the sport to remain in a position that can affect future outcomes.

2. This wasn't about the players. There are 100 other threads on players. Don't avoid the issue.

3. You provided what is in place. It doesn't work. In another sport is there this much controversy over officiating. Check any other coach T board.

4. I did ask him. He didn't want an own goal to change the result of the game....hence the this post.

 

Clean you own house.

[oknative]

I appreciate your input. Despite the best of my efforts to spell this out, most seem to misunderstand. This wasn't a "blown call". This wasn't a "close call". This wasn't a "mistake". A ball was kicked into the goal and past the post by a goalie, not only did the ball go into the goal, but the goalie did too. I saw it, the players saw it, the goalie kick the ball out of the goal in disgust as she knew it, the lines man called it a goal. The center, apparently not wanting an "own goal" to change the result of the game, over-ruled the linesman, yet the center did not, could not see what actually took place because they were so far away. My point: no official has the right to influence the outcome of a game by removing a goal.

 

This level of soccer, girls and boys, has risen dramatically over the past ten years. It is time for a major overhaul in the way in which officials are credentialed and monitored. This is not only true of high school, but club, college, and after the world cup debacle, the world's stage as well. Those of you (probably most) who call the good game should look upon this as a "good thing", and stop playing "protect thy brother".

 

You've said previously the goal would not have changed the outcome of the game, yet above you said "The center, apparently not wanting an "own goal" to change the result of the game, over-ruled the linesman,"

 

So which is it. The goal decided the outcome of the game, or didn't decide the outcome of the game. You seem confused about the facts surrounding the goal. Or at least the facts you wanted to give about the call. And interesting to note that this is the first time, after all of your complaining about the call, you've mentioned that the goal was an "own" goal. But don't worry, this is pretty typical of the biased perspective that we get from many parents.

 

And you are wrong. An official does have the authority to remove a goal, given he has a legitimate reason that the goal should not be allowed. I can think of many time goals have been disallowed for a variety of reasons.

[Canesoverhere]

You've said previously the goal would not have changed the outcome of the game, yet above you said "The center, apparently not wanting an "own goal" to change the result of the game, over-ruled the linesman,"

 

So which is it. The goal decided the outcome of the game, or didn't decide the outcome of the game. You seem confused about the facts surrounding the goal. Or at least the facts you wanted to give about the call. And interesting to note that this is the first time, after all of your complaining about the call, you've mentioned that the goal was an "own" goal. But don't worry, this is pretty typical of the biased perspective that we get from many parents.

 

And you are wrong. An official does have the authority to remove a goal, given he has a legitimate reason that the goal should not be allowed. I can think of many time goals have been disallowed for a variety of reasons.

 

The team that scored the "own goal" lost by several goals, so, the own goal by itself would not have affected the outcome of the game. At the time the own goal was scored, the score was 1-1 and that would have made it 2-1. You are more than welcome to review the tape. Everyone who looks at it smiles and say...goal,. Your response. typical. Still evading the topic.

 

If the reason was he didn't want the game to be decided upon on own goal, I'm sorry buddy, that isn't a reason, that's bias.

[oknative]

1. To remove poor representatives of the sport to remain in a position that can affect future outcomes.

2. This wasn't about the players. There are 100 other threads on players. Don't avoid the issue.

3. You provided what is in place. It doesn't work. In another sport is there this much controversy over officiating. Check any other coach T board.

4. I did ask him. He didn't want an own goal to change the result of the game....hence the this post.

 

Clean you own house.

 

If you've read any of my previous posts, you should know I'm not avoiding the issue.

 

The whole reason for this post was to complain about one call in the Beech/Hendersonville game. Now we all know that the referee in question felt the elbow was thrown deliberately - red card. So what's the issue. Doesnt' matter that someone sitting 50 yards away thinks somethink else. Yet, now you want to indict the entire officiating system over a call which you can't seem to get your facts straight. If it didn't effect the outcome of the game, so what, grow up and move on. Life is too short to live by continually showing an old video of a someone elses' mistake. If it did effect the outcome, it was wrong. Either way - Move on.