DII individuals

[bear cat brown]

Its Susie Burkart ( no "ch" in there) , younger sister to Connie, Jimmy and Foster.

 

Don't be trying to lay any old Irish connections on your Uncle Buck, because You will lose that fight. I'll :

 

Step 1: Bend BCB over my knee.

Step 2: Spank his sorry bottom with Father Driscoll's paddle.

Step 3: Take his money.

Step 4: Go to Leonard's for a beer, burger and one of those hard boiled egg's he used to keep on the bar.

 

See, unlike you, Mr. BenedictCat Brown, no matter where I'm located I'm not going to be pulling for those guys in the red-stockings against the local Catholic school calling themselves Irish, even if they wear purple, their best wrestler has the decidedly non-Irish name of Marchetti, and even if the Red Mist is stocked with former EFT coaches. This weekend I'll be wearing a special pair of shades that turns purple into green.

 

Its mid-month and you've suddenly reappeared promoting TBSFBAG. You must have cashed that bi-monthly promoter's salary check you get for your work on this board. Wonder what your childhood friend Susie would have said had she seen you in the stands sitting in the middle of the Baylor crew at the D-II finals.

 

Good luck to the offspring at 125 this weekend. He'll be wearing a green singlet for the real Irish so I'll be pulling for him.

 

The soon to be 1-3 Smart Guy

 

 

 

You forgot older sister to Billy, old wise one.

 

bcb iii /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[harry thornton]

You forgot older sister to Billy, old wise one.

 

bcb iii /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

Ah, yes. We used to all attend mass together at "Our Lady". Dem were da days ,huh?

[ghouse]

The view is a little different than that over on this side of the world. Back in December, Jeff Lockridge of the Tennessean wrote:

 

Irish's depth, experience may bring state title

By JEFF LOCKRIDGE ??? Staff Writer ??? December 1, 2007

The Irish, ranked No. 1 in the state among all classes in the season's first Tennessee coaches' poll, will put a senior-laden team on the mats with plenty of state tournament experience.

................................................................................

The last time Father Ryan was this deep was during its streak of Division II state duals titles from 1998-2000, when it was also ranked No. 1.

................................................................................

"What makes this team good is we have 14 wrestlers that are good. We won't put anyone

out there who's not going to have a chance to compete," he ( Pat Simpson) said.

"They might not be state champions, but they might be top four. In Division II, the team with the most top fours usually wins that tournament."

................................................................................

.......................................................

Baylor may have proved to be the stronger dual team but the view here through my purple-tinted glasses is that Ryan has the edge when it comes to a traditional tournament team.

 

 

Uncle Buck,

 

I have often thought about things similar to what Coach Simpson mentions in regards to whichever team finishes with the most in the top 4 (not sure if that is the right number and it isn't always gauraunteed though).

 

Beign a numbers guy I decided to do a little exercise last night using the rankings. I looked at every team and every weight class and in a matrix and decided to count up the number of top 4 ranked wrestlers. I also decided to see what each team's average looked like across all 14 weights. However, that presents a problem as the rankings only go to 6 and most teams don't have someone ranked in the top 6 at every weight. I decided to solve that by making an assumption that all non-ranked wrestlers would rate at an 8 (middle of the 16 team pool). I know this is certainly a very debatebale assumption and it could be done with a little more calculations or ranking the kids out further but I wanted something fast. This would allow me to build a average and overall team score that is simialr to golf where you want the lowest # possible (means more highly ranked wrestlers). A summary of the results follows:

 

Team-------Ranked 4th or higher

Father Ryan------------11

Baylor------------------ 9

CBHS-------------------9

Brentwood Academy--6

MBA-------------------- 6

McCallie---------------- 5

Ensworth---------------3

SBA---------------------3

Harding Academy------1

Knoxville Webb--------1

PJP II------------------ 1

SAS-------------------- 1

BGA-------------------- 0

Briarcrest-------------- 0

MUS-------------------- 0

St. George -------------0

 

Team------ Ranked 2nd or higher

Father Ryan------------8

Baylor------------------7

CBHS-------------------3

McCallie---------------- 3

Brentwood Academy--2

MBA---------------------2

SBA---------------------1

PJP II-------------------1

SAS---------------------1

Ensworth--------------- 0

Knoxville Webb--------0

Harding Academy-----0

MUS-------------------- 0

Briarcrest-------------- 0

BGA-------------------- 0

St. George-------------0

 

Team------ Average Golf Score

Father Ryan----------- 3.0

Baylor----------------- 3.1

CBHS------------------ 4.0

Brentwood Academy--4.8

MBA---------------------5.5

McCallie-----------------5.6

SBA---------------------6.5

Ensworth--------------- 6.6

PJP II-------------------7.4

Knoxville Webb--------7.5

SAS---------------------7.6

Harding Academy----- 7.6

MUS-------------------- 7.8

Briarcrest-------------- 7.9

BGA-------------------- 8.0

St. George -------------8.0

 

Team------ Total Golf Score

Father Ryan------------42

Baylor------------------ 44

CBHS-------------------56

Brentwood Academy--67

MBA-------------------- 77

McCallie----------------79

SBA-------------------- 91

Ensworth--------------- 93

PJP II-------------------104

Knoxville Webb--------105

SAS-------------------- 106

Harding Academy----- 107

MUS-------------------- 109

Briarcrest-------------- 110

BGA-------------------- 112

St. George -------------112

 

As you can see Father Ryan based on this analysis would be rather close to Baylor. I think it shows the clear importance of one thing both in this tournament and especially in the duals: BONUS POINTS. You need them as often as you can get them. The other thing is it helps illustrate the gap that often comes between #1 and #4 in the rankings and that correlation with bonus points.

[BuckLateral]

As you can see Father Ryan based on this analysis would be rather close to Baylor. I think it shows the clear importance of one thing both in this tournament and especially in the duals: BONUS POINTS. You need them as often as you can get them. The other thing is it helps illustrate the gap that often comes between #1 and #4 in the rankings and that correlation with bonus points.

 

 

"close to Baylor".

 

If I understand your analysis, it looks to me like Ryan just beat the field by two strokes ( 42 to 44, 56, 67..........) and has the lowest shot per hole average (3. 0 to 3.1).

 

Might be more correct to say that Baylor is close to Ryan.

 

I agree with you about the importance of bonus points.

 

Interesting you should choose the golf analogy and that this analogy would have Ryan shooting the low score since Baylor has won the most golf championships (14).

[BuckLateral]

Uncle Buck,

 

................................................................................

............................................................

 

As you can see Father Ryan based on this analysis would be rather close to Baylor. I think it shows the clear importance of one thing both in this tournament and especially in the duals: BONUS POINTS. You need them as often as you can get them. The other thing is it helps illustrate the gap that often comes between #1 and #4 in the rankings and that correlation with bonus points.

 

 

ghouse:

 

Good call on the bonus points. They were the deciding factor in the two teams tying for the title.

 

TBSFBAG and The Purple Team were tied going into the finals where Baylor had 8 wrestlers and Ryan had 6 wrestlers. Baylor only won won 4 of its 8 but got 6 bonus points with 2 pins and 2 majors. Ryan won 5 of 6, including two head-to-heads with Baylor, and two of the wins were by major decision giving Ryan 2 bonus points. Take away the bonus points in any one of those matches and the other team wins the title.

[ghouse]

ghouse:

 

Good call on the bonus points. They were the deciding factor in the two teams tying for the title.

 

TBSFBAG and The Purple Team were tied going into the finals where Baylor had 8 wrestlers and Ryan had 6 wrestlers. Baylor only won won 4 of its 8 but got 6 bonus points with 2 pins and 2 majors. Ryan won 5 of 6, including two head-to-heads with Baylor, and two of the wins were by major decision giving Ryan 2 bonus points. Take away the bonus points in any one of those matches and the other team wins the title.

 

 

UncleBuck,

 

Thanks but it doesn't take a genuis to figure out that the bonus points would make the difference with two teams that are so close. It defintiely made the finals interesting as we were sitting in the stands and they announced the current team scores around the time the 160 or maybe 171 finals matches were wrestling. we quickly did some calculations and figured that Ryan had to win all 3 finals (189-285) and needed bonus points to get there with Baylor. We know one major would tie it and anything more than that they would get an outright win. The got the major at 189, pulled off the mild upset to win at 215, but St. Benedict's heavy proved to be a little too determined to give up the major and kept the team score tied.

 

Definitely was a fun tourney. The team race for 3rd was also a little too close for comfort /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />.

[BuckLateral]

UncleBuck,

 

Thanks but it doesn't take a genuis to figure out that the bonus points would make the difference with two teams that are so close. It defintiely made the finals interesting as we were sitting in the stands and they announced the current team scores around the time the 160 or maybe 171 finals matches were wrestling. we quickly did some calculations and figured that Ryan had to win all 3 finals (189-285) and needed bonus points to get there with Baylor. We know one major would tie it and anything more than that they would get an outright win. The got the major at 189, pulled off the mild upset to win at 215, but St. Benedict's heavy proved to be a little too determined to give up the major and kept the team score tied.

 

Definitely was a fun tourney. The team race for 3rd was also a little too close for comfort .

 

 

 

Ghouse,

 

We were doing the same calculations as well, over near the Ryan crowd, which made the D-II finals fun to watch without a dog in the hunt, but pretty nerve wracking if you were a Baylor or Ryan fan. When Wesley pulled off not only a win but a major at 160, the last weight that Baylor had a wrestler, we calculated the same thing you did. Then Mix came up with the bonus point needed to tie, but Clanton had to beat top-seeded Tuani who had beaten Clanton during the season. When Clanton won, you could feel the Ryan fans pumping up while the Baylor coaches and fans had a worried look. The reaction between the two sides when Hermann had the other 285 on his back for a short time in the first period was great. The D-I finals had some great individual matchups, but it lacked the electricity that D-II had in those final three matches.

 

My MVPs for The Purple Team would be Wesley and Clanton, both of whom had to beat kids that they had previously lost to in order to keep Ryan alive going into the 285 final. If I had to pick one, I guess I'd give it to Wesley for the major at 160 which I don't think anyone expected. Mix had a big one at 189, but of the three final weights, that looked like one where Ryan could get bonus points. But with Idellette having beaten Wesley 8-3 in the state dual final, I think Ryan was just looking for a win there. And his major meant that Ryan did not have to get bonus points in all three of 189, 215, and 285 to win---2 would do it---and just one would at least get the tie. As you noted, when Wesley won is when everyone started doing the math.

 

With all due respect to little Mr. Watson, who deserved the OW award and shows the talent to be a five timer, and the rest of TBSFBAG kids in the finals, my MVP for Baylor would not go to a finalist but instead----in keeping with the theme here---- would be a tie between Helton, who finished 3rd at 171, and Watson, who finished 4th at 285. The kids in the finals pretty much did what was expected. Helton, a 9th grader, majored Brasher (BA), a returning state medalist--------I don't think anyone was counting on that 1 bonus point. Watson beat the No. 2 seed and returning medalist from Ensworth to get into the third/fourth place match when I think most would have expected him to be in the 5th/6th place match after all the chatter on this board following the 285 final in state duals..............he got some advancement points that turned out to be decisive in keeping the tie.

 

I would like to ask the Baylor and Ryan coaches what it is like to kiss your sister, especially if she is big, ugly and Purple (or Red) as the case may be. My guess is that they would say its better than not kissing her at all and just getting a handshake for second. There sure was a love-fest going on down there on the floor-------reminded me of a 60's love-in at Haight- Ashbury in San Francisco in I attended. The only thing missing were girls with flowers in their hair.

[ghouse]

Ghouse,

 

We were doing the same calculations as well, over near the Ryan crowd, which made the D-II finals fun to watch without a dog in the hunt, but pretty nerve wracking if you were a Baylor or Ryan fan. When Wesley pulled off not only a win but a major at 160, the last weight that Baylor had a wrestler, we calculated the same thing you did. Then Mix came up with the bonus point needed to tie, but Clanton had to beat top-seeded Tuani who had beaten Clanton during the season. When Clanton won, you could feel the Ryan fans pumping up while the Baylor coaches and fans had a worried look. The reaction between the two sides when Hermann had the other 285 on his back for a short time in the first period was great. The D-I finals had some great individual matchups, but it lacked the electricity that D-II had in those final three matches.

 

My MVPs for The Purple Team would be Wesley and Clanton, both of whom had to beat kids that they had previously lost to in order to keep Ryan alive going into the 285 final. If I had to pick one, I guess I'd give it to Wesley for the major at 160 which I don't think anyone expected. Mix had a big one at 189, but of the three final weights, that looked like one where Ryan could get bonus points. But with Idellette having beaten Wesley 8-3 in the state dual final, I think Ryan was just looking for a win there. And his major meant that Ryan did not have to get bonus points in all three of 189, 215, and 285 to win---2 would do it---and just one would at least get the tie. As you noted, when Wesley won is when everyone started doing the math.

 

With all due respect to little Mr. Watson, who deserved the OW award and shows the talent to be a five timer, and the rest of TBSFBAG kids in the finals, my MVP for Baylor would not go to a finalist but instead----in keeping with the theme here---- would be a tie between Helton, who finished 3rd at 171, and Watson, who finished 4th at 285. The kids in the finals pretty much did what was expected. Helton, a 9th grader, majored Brasher (BA), a returning state medalist--------I don't think anyone was counting on that 1 bonus point. Watson beat the No. 2 seed and returning medalist from Ensworth to get into the third/fourth place match when I think most would have expected him to be in the 5th/6th place match after all the chatter on this board following the 285 final in state duals..............he got some advancement points that turned out to be decisive in keeping the tie.

 

I would like to ask the Baylor and Ryan coaches what it is like to kiss your sister, especially if she is big, ugly and Purple (or Red) as the case may be. My guess is that they would say its better than not kissing her at all and just getting a handshake for second. There sure was a love-fest going on down there on the floor-------reminded me of a 60's love-in at Haight- Ashbury in San Francisco in I attended. The only thing missing were girls with flowers in their hair.

 

 

I agree that everyone certainly started doing the math when Wesley won. That was the match that gave Fr hope and I had been counting them out a bit until he pulled off the upset. I honestly didn't think he would have it in him after what I thought was a less than stellar performance in the semi's. To let a little bias show I thought he lost that match to our 160 but that is not how the ref's saw it and I was very impressed with his mental ability to come from a tough win to dominate in his finals match against an opponent he had previously lost to. I was definitely impressed. I really enjoyed the finals runs there near the end. I think my vote for OW for Baylor would have to go to Bailey Whitaker. He came up with a pin (a huge two bonus points) in a match he could have easily lost. Completed his quest to become a four timer and may end up being the only reason that Jeff Francis isn't a four timer. To win and score a pin in a match you could have lost was big to me. Helton was no surprise to me as I was very impressed with his skills when he knocked off Max Jarrell at state duals. I really didn't like the match-up with him and Holliday for 3rd/4th but both kids wrestled well. I agree on Watson, I simply didn't see him getting by Baldwin but if you can limit Baldwin's time on top you stand a good chance as that really seems to be his best position.

 

And while I say I enjoyed the drama of the team score heading into the 285 championship match I will say that I was highly torn. As much as I would have liked to have seen Father Ryan pull off the mild upset (yes I call it an upset because any time Baylor doesn't win this thing it feels like it to me, and yes I am aware of my previous analysis) I was honestly rooting a bit against them in that match. I have coached Severson from the time he was in 7th grade until this year (and by coached I also mean spent a lot of time wrestling with his big rear end which was not an easy task when your as small as me, but I couldn't stick him with the next heaviest kid his 7th grade year since he was about 220 then and the other kid was about 130!,but somehow that arangement continued even when he hit high school a good bit) and was super pleased for him to have made the finals and would have loved for him to have become SBA's first champ but I feared he was a little over-matched with Hermann and was proud of the showing he made.