Hillsboro Girls Basketball State Champs

[Redog]

Memphis City has open enrollment, so the game was evenly matched. Open enrollment does leave the rest of us behind athletically and will eventually do the same academically without effort at the individual school level...

 

What about the schools that aren't open enrollment? Is that not fair to them -- athletically

[Metroman]

(Before you read this, let me say that I do not want to take anything away from Hillsboro. It is a great school that has had great success recently. It is different than all other Metro schools. I also don't really want to spend a lot of time responding because I don't think this is a good forum to do so. If people really care, maybe I'll start a blog or something:) I think sometimes people on message boards (Me included) think we are way more important than we are and that people really care when they don't)

 

There are way too many layers to this for a real discussion. Hillsboro didn't "work their behinds off" in order to keep there academic reputation. It just has a better reputation which make people think it's better. Overton and Hillwood (until recently) have the same reputation, but they're not open enrollment. The factor that ties those schools together are Hillsboro is in Green Hills, Overton-Oak Hill, Hillwood-West Meade. Those are three wealthy neighborhoods that 20 years ago had a lot of students in the area attending the school. Now, Overton is the only one that has maintained any sort of neighborhood population. No one in Green Hills goes to Hillsboro. They all go to Lipscomb, FRA, Father Ryan, MBA, Harpeth Hall, St. Ceclia, Brentwood Academy, CPA, MLK, Hume-Fogg, or Ensworth. But Hillsboro hasn't had anything bad happen to make outsiders think it is a crappy school. Hillwood used to be just like them (except for open zone) until they had some big issues about 5 years ago and now people think it's a disaster.

 

Keep in mind that the teachers and the focus of these schools didn't change, just the perception. Once that happened, parents of good students pulled there kids out.

 

Let me give you an example. (I am making these numbers up a little, but they are close) At Overton, 10% of the poplulation that is zoned goes to a magnet school and 35% goes to private schools. That means that if 100 kids went to the school 45 of your top students have been pulled out. Now, some really bright kids remain, but not at the volume. What is going to happen to test scores? Obviously, if you take the top out, things go down. Now when a parent of an eighth grader wants to send their child to a "good" academic school, Overton's test scores look low, so they take there child to another school. That pattern takes its toll after a few decades and has played out at almost every public school in Nashville. What is interesting to me is to see how it is starting to effect surrounding counties now. Twenty years from now, everyone will be talking about what a crappy school Brentwood is turning into. (I imagine that is already happening to Germantown in Memphis)

 

What's the solution?

1. Middle/Upper Socio-economic families have to be committed to staying in public schools, which sounds great until you have a child that age. In other words, that will never happen in high numbers. Too much negative perception to overcome.

 

2. A MAJOR economic downturn. If people can't afford private schools, guess where they will have to send their children? As these good students come in, public schools will improve.

[Redog]

(Before you read this, let me say that I do not want to take anything away from Hillsboro. It is a great school that has had great success recently. It is different than all other Metro schools. I also don't really want to spend a lot of time responding because I don't think this is a good forum to do so. If people really care, maybe I'll start a blog or something:) I think sometimes people on message boards (Me included) think we are way more important than we are and that people really care when they don't)

 

There are way too many layers to this for a real discussion. Hillsboro didn't "work their behinds off" in order to keep there academic reputation. It just has a better reputation which make people think it's better. Overton and Hillwood (until recently) have the same reputation, but they're not open enrollment. The factor that ties those schools together are Hillsboro is in Green Hills, Overton-Oak Hill, Hillwood-West Meade. Those are three wealthy neighborhoods that 20 years ago had a lot of students in the area attending the school. Now, Overton is the only one that has maintained any sort of neighborhood population. No one in Green Hills goes to Hillsboro. They all go to Lipscomb, FRA, Father Ryan, MBA, Harpeth Hall, St. Ceclia, Brentwood Academy, CPA, MLK, Hume-Fogg, or Ensworth. But Hillsboro hasn't had anything bad happen to make outsiders think it is a crappy school. Hillwood used to be just like them (except for open zone) until they had some big issues about 5 years ago and now people think it's a disaster.

 

Keep in mind that the teachers and the focus of these schools didn't change, just the perception. Once that happened, parents of good students pulled there kids out.

 

Let me give you an example. (I am making these numbers up a little, but they are close) At Overton, 10% of the poplulation that is zoned goes to a magnet school and 35% goes to private schools. That means that if 100 kids went to the school 45 of your top students have been pulled out. Now, some really bright kids remain, but not at the volume. What is going to happen to test scores? Obviously, if you take the top out, things go down. Now when a parent of an eighth grader wants to send their child to a "good" academic school, Overton's test scores look low, so they take there child to another school. That pattern takes its toll after a few decades and has played out at almost every public school in Nashville. What is interesting to me is to see how it is starting to effect surrounding counties now. Twenty years from now, everyone will be talking about what a crappy school Brentwood is turning into. (I imagine that is already happening to Germantown in Memphis)

 

What's the solution?

1. Middle/Upper Socio-economic families have to be committed to staying in public schools, which sounds great until you have a child that age. In other words, that will never happen in high numbers. Too much negative perception to overcome.

 

2. A MAJOR economic downturn. If people can't afford private schools, guess where they will have to send their children? As these good students come in, public schools will improve.

 

Great post - and assume the pattern is the same for athletics? or not

[BBallExtreme]

(Before you read this, let me say that I do not want to take anything away from Hillsboro. It is a great school that has had great success recently. It is different than all other Metro schools. I also don't really want to spend a lot of time responding because I don't think this is a good forum to do so. If people really care, maybe I'll start a blog or something:) I think sometimes people on message boards (Me included) think we are way more important than we are and that people really care when they don't)

 

There are way too many layers to this for a real discussion. Hillsboro didn't "work their behinds off" in order to keep there academic reputation. It just has a better reputation which make people think it's better. Overton and Hillwood (until recently) have the same reputation, but they're not open enrollment. The factor that ties those schools together are Hillsboro is in Green Hills, Overton-Oak Hill, Hillwood-West Meade. Those are three wealthy neighborhoods that 20 years ago had a lot of students in the area attending the school. Now, Overton is the only one that has maintained any sort of neighborhood population. No one in Green Hills goes to Hillsboro. They all go to Lipscomb, FRA, Father Ryan, MBA, Harpeth Hall, St. Ceclia, Brentwood Academy, CPA, MLK, Hume-Fogg, or Ensworth. But Hillsboro hasn't had anything bad happen to make outsiders think it is a crappy school. Hillwood used to be just like them (except for open zone) until they had some big issues about 5 years ago and now people think it's a disaster.

 

Keep in mind that the teachers and the focus of these schools didn't change, just the perception. Once that happened, parents of good students pulled there kids out.

 

Let me give you an example. (I am making these numbers up a little, but they are close) At Overton, 10% of the poplulation that is zoned goes to a magnet school and 35% goes to private schools. That means that if 100 kids went to the school 45 of your top students have been pulled out. Now, some really bright kids remain, but not at the volume. What is going to happen to test scores? Obviously, if you take the top out, things go down. Now when a parent of an eighth grader wants to send their child to a "good" academic school, Overton's test scores look low, so they take there child to another school. That pattern takes its toll after a few decades and has played out at almost every public school in Nashville. What is interesting to me is to see how it is starting to effect surrounding counties now. Twenty years from now, everyone will be talking about what a crappy school Brentwood is turning into. (I imagine that is already happening to Germantown in Memphis)

 

What's the solution?

1. Middle/Upper Socio-economic families have to be committed to staying in public schools, which sounds great until you have a child that age. In other words, that will never happen in high numbers. Too much negative perception to overcome.

 

2. A MAJOR economic downturn. If people can't afford private schools, guess where they will have to send their children? As these good students come in, public schools will improve.

 

 

Great honest assessment. However I'm going to add the elephant in the room.....

 

3. An end to white flight.

 

I work and teach in a school in an upper middle class area (based on home values). Very few of our white neighbors send their children to the local public school, but all of our black neighbors do. How that plays out in the school is like this: More nonwhites move into an area and those whites who can move, those who can't stay, but send their children to private schools or elect to home school. The nonwhites usually have two working parents (or sometimes one parent working two jobs) which translates into less parental involvement overall. Parental involvement correlates highly with academic performance, and predictably test scores fall. Decreased enrollment means more "openings" for students from outside the district. These students are usually less advantaged than the students who live in the district and are often from poorly performing schools, further lowering test scores. Because their parents live farther away and have even less work flexibility there is even less parental involvement. You see how this becomes perpetuating and sadly athletics is the least of what's wrong with this picture.

[Metroman]

This is academic and athletic both.

 

Race is clearly an issue. The reason many of these private schools exist is because of race. But, these issues happens in school system where race isn't as much an issue, as well. Look at the growth of schools like Mt. Juliet Christian or Middle Tennessee Christian.

[BBallExtreme]

This is academic and athletic both.

 

Race is clearly an issue. The reason many of these private schools exist is because of race. But, these issues happens in school system where race isn't as much an issue, as well. Look at the growth of schools like Mt. Juliet Christian or Middle Tennessee Christian.

 

 

Agreed. It's hard not to over simplify with such limited space to share one's wisdom! /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

[Redog]

Great honest assessment. However I'm going to add the elephant in the room.....

 

3. An end to white flight.

 

I work and teach in a school in an upper middle class area (based on home values). Very few of our white neighbors send their children to the local public school, but all of our black neighbors do. How that plays out in the school is like this: More nonwhites move into an area and those whites who can move, those who can't stay, but send their children to private schools or elect to home school. The nonwhites usually have two working parents (or sometimes one parent working two jobs) which translates into less parental involvement overall. Parental involvement correlates highly with academic performance, and predictably test scores fall. Decreased enrollment means more "openings" for students from outside the district. These students are usually less advantaged than the students who live in the district and are often from poorly performing schools, further lowering test scores. Because their parents live farther away and have even less work flexibility there is even less parental involvement. You see how this becomes perpetuating and sadly athletics is the least of what's wrong with this picture.

 

But this an "athletic board" - so as "things" perpetuate, you will never see the non-open enrollment schools complain about athletics not being fair like the privates were complained about?

[PHargis]

I'm overwhelmed and am going to have to read this twice but much of this I obviously aware of. I'll be back.

[BBallExtreme]

But this an "athletic board" - so as "things" perpetuate, you will never see the non-open enrollment schools complain about athletics not being fair like the privates were complained about?

 

 

My experience in the Shelby Metro area is that there isn't a lot of complaining about fairness either way. In Memphis City Schools the "Optional" schools are open to all students who meet certain academic standards, these are the schools most in demand within MCS. Memphis Central happens to be an Optional school which means that students from any where in the city who meet those standards can attend (even students outside of the city who qualify can pay tuition and attend). I know that there are girls on the Central team that are Optional students and there are girls that aren't. At White Station, another Memphis Optional, most (all?) of the varsity girls are also in the Optional program. Does Optional status give certain schools an advantage? Of course, but there are some great inner city schools that have a long tradition of athletic excellence and tons booster and community support and can compete with any school in the area, public or private--particularly on the boys side (ie. BTW, Manassas, Melrose). With girls it seems that the best players play year round, and with fewer girls' team being sponsored it's more expensive for girls to do AAU than boys, so family income plays a larger role in girls' success. This is a generalization, of course there are exceptions!

Curious to know how this plays out in other cities in the state.

[PHargis]

Now, I would like to go back to an original question which and answer come back pretty quickly and that was and had to do with "Is open enrollment the answer to intercity education or is it a hinderance?

[Metroman]

Now, I would like to go back to an original question which and answer come back pretty quickly and that was and had to do with "Is open enrollment the answer to intercity education or is it a hinderance?

 

 

It doesn't solve the problems, it just shifts them around.

[PHargis]

It doesn't solve the problems, it just shifts them around.

I think I see the reasoning in your answer. I do agree with your acessment of Hillsboro High School and there is no reason not to but to me it is sad for students to not be in a community atmosphere where they are able to partake of High School life with its wins and losses, achievements and defeats but in many cases with them just being there might be that. I certainly hope if there are other awards for the school, that the celebration of achievement might be allowed to be seen and the class it would be accepted. At no time during my posting was this more evident was when I was posting about Hillsboro students not going to see the Tournament and a quiet post came back, "Hillsboro students are not known for going to activites after school", which came from a student I thought. And then going thru what they would have to do just to do that and remembering the school busses each morning mostly before daylight and the metro busses unloading students in front of schools and in the afternoons, as school let out, the long lines of cars trying to get out and thru Green Hills, many times taking over an hour, the enormous task just to get there from all over Nashville and back home, every day, likely became as much of an achievement as winning a State Tournament and without saying much else the Community of Middle Tennessee celebrate with the school again winning the tournament.

But because of this and other situations in District 12, it is evident that there is more to the problem of staying after school in the afternoon for a Ball Game and explains why Memphis winds up in the afternoon scheduling 3:30 games. And then there is the trek home. The adult community who helps with this situation deserves a great deal of recognition also.