Question regarding Red Card

[tennsportsfan]

I certainly don't claim to be a soccer rules expert, but I have a question. Any soccer I've ever seen, when a player gets a red card, regardless of the cause for the card, their team plays with 10 players. However, I saw a different scenario this evening. A player got a yellow card, then another yellow card. This becomes a red card and that player was ejected. However, according to the referee's explanation as I understand it, that team was able to substitute a player in the game. The referee stated that because the red was the result of 2 yellows, they could substitute. If there had been no yellow, and the player got a red as the first card, then that team would have to play a man down. Maybe I misunderstand the rule, but that is not the way I thought it was. Any referees or rules experts care to help me out?

[akula21]

Aha! our first post on the "Hard" vs. "Soft" red card.

 

The Hard red is a direct red card and results in expulsion and no substitution. So a team would play a man down.

 

The Soft red is really a double yellow and results in expulsion,BUT you may substitute a player. It is basically like fouling out in basketball. You're gone, but we sub for you.

 

It's a quirky rule that came into a play a few years ago in TN, don't know if anyone else uses it.

 

Also, a red card results in a 2 game suspension, though I remember there is an exception that results in only a one game suspension. I think it is only for a deliberate handball to save a goal, or a tactical foul to stop a breakaway as the last defender. Someone please correct me if any of this is inaccurate.

[tennsportsfan]

So it is a rule used in Tennessee, but may or may not be recognized elsewhere? I thought a red card was a red card. Does anyone know where else this rule is used?

[BigG]

So it is a rule used in Tennessee, but may or may not be recognized elsewhere? I thought a red card was a red card. Does anyone know where else this rule is used?

I believe we used it in Florida when I coached there.

[CHAMPDDS]

Actually Akula, the soft red discussion popped up in the discussion of the Notre Dame v Signal Mountain game where the SM players was given a soft red...the confusion in the stands was incredible....

D

[Canesoverhere]

Yea...let's not refine the tools to credit obvious goals let's just pile on some regional psycho-babble rules...nice, eh?

[socref1]

I believe we used it in Florida when I coached there.

The National Federation of High School Associations, which all 50 states are a part proscribe to this rule. In fact, the soft yellow is unique to High School soccer and no where else. The southeastern states, including Florida, comprise Section 3 in NFHS (which the Heritage HS AD, is the Section 3 representative on the NFHS Rules Committee).

 

Also unique to HS soccer, the fact that dangerous play can be against the same team, that is the opposing player (who gets a cleat near the face) is a team mate of the perpetrator.

 

There is a whole list comparing NFHS versus FIFA (USSF) and college. Google it.

 

So bear this in mind the next time you see something freaky on the field and want to yell at the referee as a knee jerk reaction.

Edited October 12, 2010 by socref1

[Rabble Rouser]

The National Federation of High School Associations, which all 50 states are a part proscribe to this rule. In fact, the soft yellow is unique to High School soccer and no where else. The southeastern states, including Florida, comprise Section 3 in NFHS (which the Heritage HS AD, is the Section 3 representative on the NFHS Rules Committee).

 

Also unique to HS soccer, the fact that dangerous play can be against the same team, that is the opposing player (who gets a cleat near the face) is a team mate of the perpetrator.

 

There is a whole list comparing NFHS versus FIFA (USSF) and college. Google it.

 

So bear this in mind the next time you see something freaky on the field and want to yell at the referee as a knee jerk reaction.

Akula, I'm thinking that should I ever change screen names, my next one will be kneejerkreaction. I was one of those "confused" parents Champs is referring to above. Actually, I was not confused at all. I was certain I was right. ha. Soccer rules are too fluid for me. I need to shut up and just watch.

[Arsie7]

As someone stated before, the "Hard Red" / "Soft Red" is used in high school only. I believe the reason for this is because people want soccer rules to be more "in-line" with other high school sports (good or bad). I LOVE the rule and I hope it remains this way forever. Die-hard soccer people will often see an issue like this and say, "well here we go again trying to make soccer more Americanized". I usually agree with that line of thought, as soccer is it's own sport and should not be compared to the more popular American sports. However, this particular rule is right for high school. And here's why:

 

Many principals and other school administrators have a difficult time seeing a red card ejection as a somewhat normal part of the game. Although much more frequent, I kind of see it like the penalty box in hockey. Red cards are given from time to time in soccer. Part of the punishment is that the team has to play 10 vs 11. It's part of the game. Another part is that the player misses the next game. In this sense, an "ejection" in soccer is more frequent and less of a "big deal" than in other sports like football, baseball, basketball, etc. School administrators are usually old school and know more about those other three sports. So when they hear that a player was ejected, they can't help but to assume the player has done something very terrible. A hard tackle from behind in soccer warrants a red card. A hard tackle, bringing a player down by the face-mask in football is a 15 yard penalty. A player DOES need to do something terrible in football to warrant an ejection. Thus, the seriousness of ejections in other sports are more severe than in soccer.

 

The "soft-red" vs "hard-red" tries to justify this a bit. This is just my take on this. Hopefully this makes some sense.

[ChattanoogaCannon]

As someone stated before, the "Hard Red" / "Soft Red" is used in high school only. I believe the reason for this is because people want soccer rules to be more "in-line" with other high school sports (good or bad). I LOVE the rule and I hope it remains this way forever. Die-hard soccer people will often see an issue like this and say, "well here we go again trying to make soccer more Americanized". I usually agree with that line of thought, as soccer is it's own sport and should not be compared to the more popular American sports. However, this particular rule is right for high school. And here's why:

 

Many principals and other school administrators have a difficult time seeing a red card ejection as a somewhat normal part of the game. Although much more frequent, I kind of see it like the penalty box in hockey. Red cards are given from time to time in soccer. Part of the punishment is that the team has to play 10 vs 11. It's part of the game. Another part is that the player misses the next game. In this sense, an "ejection" in soccer is more frequent and less of a "big deal" than in other sports like football, baseball, basketball, etc. School administrators are usually old school and know more about those other three sports. So when they hear that a player was ejected, they can't help but to assume the player has done something very terrible. A hard tackle from behind in soccer warrants a red card. A hard tackle, bringing a player down by the face-mask in football is a 15 yard penalty. A player DOES need to do something terrible in football to warrant an ejection. Thus, the seriousness of ejections in other sports are more severe than in soccer.

 

The "soft-red" vs "hard-red" tries to justify this a bit. This is just my take on this. Hopefully this makes some sense.

 

I haven't thought about this issue in these terms yet. Your explanation does make sense, though I am in the camp that a soft red is one of the silliest things I have ever heard of. My oldest kid's middle school team was very dominant because of a combination of almost all players were club players and they play in a really weak league. During a very tough non-league game, three players received a yellow card over the course of the game. This was unusual in the sense that the team did not have to play aggressively against their league competition, so this was the only time all season yellow cards were handed out. Our principal felt the need to lecture the whole team after the game. I asked her if she lectured basketball teams afer they have a couple of players foul out.

[socref1]

As someone stated before, the "Hard Red" / "Soft Red" is used in high school only. I believe the reason for this is because people want soccer rules to be more "in-line" with other high school sports (good or bad). I LOVE the rule and I hope it remains this way forever. Die-hard soccer people will often see an issue like this and say, "well here we go again trying to make soccer more Americanized". I usually agree with that line of thought, as soccer is it's own sport and should not be compared to the more popular American sports. However, this particular rule is right for high school. And here's why:

 

Many principals and other school administrators have a difficult time seeing a red card ejection as a somewhat normal part of the game. Although much more frequent, I kind of see it like the penalty box in hockey. Red cards are given from time to time in soccer. Part of the punishment is that the team has to play 10 vs 11. It's part of the game. Another part is that the player misses the next game. In this sense, an "ejection" in soccer is more frequent and less of a "big deal" than in other sports like football, baseball, basketball, etc. School administrators are usually old school and know more about those other three sports. So when they hear that a player was ejected, they can't help but to assume the player has done something very terrible. A hard tackle from behind in soccer warrants a red card. A hard tackle, bringing a player down by the face-mask in football is a 15 yard penalty. A player DOES need to do something terrible in football to warrant an ejection. Thus, the seriousness of ejections in other sports are more severe than in soccer.

 

The "soft-red" vs "hard-red" tries to justify this a bit. This is just my take on this. Hopefully this makes some sense.

 

I am going to correct myself. The soft red is for anyone that uses NFHS rules, and not necessarily exclusive of HS. If middle schools choose to adopt it, they may in fact have that soft red provision if they so choose.

 

The fact that a soft red requires no sit out the next game is self evident to its departure from standard soccer, yet acknowledges an out for schools for handling the routine which is a part of soccer. I like the analogy to fouling out in basketball. Schools don't haul players in to the principal for fouling out.

 

The differences with "scholastic soccer" versus any other form of soccer can be found on page one of the NFHS Rules Book -

 

"To maintain the sound traditions of this sport, encourage sportsmanship, and minimize the inherrent risk of injury"...

 

The Rules Book does state that "NFHS Rules are used by education-based and non-education based organizations serving children of varying skill levels who are high school age or younger. In order to make NFHS rules skill-level and age-level appropriate, the rules may be modified by any organization that chooses to use them. Except as may be specifically noted in this rules book, the NFHS makes no recommendation about the nature or extent of the modifications that may be appropriate for children who are younger or less skilled than high school varsity atheletes.."

 

So what does this mean? It means that a rule like the soft red was probably instituted to give flexibility to the schools for less heinous offenses like violent conduct (fighting) which would require a sit down with school administration. Bear in mind, scholastic soccer is no different than any other form of soccer in principle, however the NFHS Rules Book is probably twice as thick as the USSF LOTG. The bulk of this extra tree killing stems from examples, situations, points of emphasis, charts, diagrams, and tables that aid in implementing this flexibility.

[BigG]

If any rule might be adopted out of the pros or college level (concerning cards) it would be the accumulation penalty for yellow and red cards. If I remember correctly, if a player received 5 cards in college, they had to sit out a game (that may have changed). In the world cup, it was 2 in consecutive games (which is much more harsh). I think it could "tone down" those players who get carded every game, or at least give some sort of penalty to "repeat offenders" (and yes, I had several repeat offenders during my tenure!).

 

Maybe that isn't a problem in the girls season, but I know there were some issues in the guys season.