Region I AA

[etownsparky]

etown,

You are the only one on here talking about winning it all. Just getting to the Boro is a great accomplishment. Once you get there then everything else is gravy. They have been ranked as high as 4th. That would indicate that three other teams have a better chance of winning the gold ball. Remind us all of the last time that Elizabethton won the gold ball.

Apparently you haven't read my comments closely. My initial comments were confined to the possibilities of R1 teams making the state tournament. No doubt it is an awesome feat just to get to Mboro. I was just offering an opinion about how Grainger likely stacked up to other AA competition across the state this year. Another point I was trying to make is that the AP rankings make for good conversation, but are hardly foolproof as a predictor of how the state tournament will go. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm sure you know this already, but EHS has never won a gold ball (or silver for that matter). They have been to Mboro twice in the past five years though. Again, my posts have nothing to do with EHS. If you want to make this a debate on EHS vs. Grainger, come back on here in about 10 years after Grainger has won 5 or 6 Regional championships, been to Mboro multiple times or have a gold ball and we might have something to debate. By the way, I'm interested in your opinion on something. How do you think this year's Grainger team stacks up against last year's Betsy team? I could say more, but I will refrain. Nevertheless, I still hope Grainger makes it to the Boro and wins it all this year. Good luck!

[RHS02]

Apparently you haven't read my comments closely. My initial comments were confined to the possibilities of R1 teams making the state tournament. No doubt it is an awesome feat just to get to Mboro. I was just offering an opinion about how Grainger likely stacked up to other AA competition across the state this year. Another point I was trying to make is that the AP rankings make for good conversation, but are hardly foolproof as a predictor of how the state tournament will go. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm sure you know this already, but EHS has never won a gold ball (or silver for that matter). They have been to Mboro twice in the past five years though. Again, my posts have nothing to do with EHS. If you want to make this a debate on EHS vs. Grainger, come back on here in about 10 years after Grainger has won 5 or 6 Regional championships, been to Mboro multiple times or have a gold ball and we might have something to debate. By the way, I'm interested in your opinion on something. How do you think this year's Grainger team stacks up against last year's Betsy team? I could say more, but I will refrain. Nevertheless, I still hope Grainger makes it to the Boro and wins it all this year. Good luck!

Last year is last year. Those girls from etown graduated. Grainger still has theirs and will return most of them next year. They played last year and Elizabethton won with a very veteran team against a very young team. No way to compare how it would come out if both teams were at the same experience level. Say all you want to say I don't really care, but I do know that EHS is already at the house this season. It is not a debate about EHS and Grainger. Just funny how you have a hard time giving anyone else any credit.

[etownsparky]

Last year is last year. Those girls from etown graduated. Grainger still has theirs and will return most of them next year. They played last year and Elizabethton won with a very veteran team against a very young team. No way to compare how it would come out if both teams were at the same experience level. Say all you want to say I don't really care, but I do know that EHS is already at the house this season. It is not a debate about EHS and Grainger. Just funny how you have a hard time giving anyone else any credit.

Funny how you continue to say I have a hard time giving others "credit." The real issue must be your perception of what "credit" really is. I have said multiple times that Grainger deserves "credit" for their performance and record this year. They have done presumably what no other Grainger team has ever done, i.e. won the district with 30+ wins (unless I'm wrong). I guess that doesn't count as "credit" since I didn't pick them to win the state championship. Honestly, I don't understand your apparent anger and why you seem to be so offended by my comments. I haven't degraded Grainger at all - just offered an opinion about how I feel they stack up against others in the state. I could expound my prognostication to say that I don't think either R2 team has a realistic chance at winning state either. I guess that could be misconstrued as not giving those teams "credit" for good seasons either. Also, I think it's funny how you are compelled to take shots at EHS during this discussion too. You have your opinions and I have mine. I suspect most that know high school basketball and have seen these teams play this year would agree my assessment is fair. Oh well, I'm done with this exchange. Good luck to the Grainger girls in their quest for regional, substate and state championships. The games will surely be decided on the floor and not on this forum.

[RHS02]

Funny how you continue to say I have a hard time giving others "credit." The real issue must be your perception of what "credit" really is. I have said multiple times that Grainger deserves "credit" for their performance and record this year. They have done presumably what no other Grainger team has ever done, i.e. won the district with 30+ wins (unless I'm wrong). I guess that doesn't count as "credit" since I didn't pick them to win the state championship. Honestly, I don't understand your apparent anger and why you seem to be so offended by my comments. I haven't degraded Grainger at all - just offered an opinion about how I feel they stack up against others in the state. I could expound my prognostication to say that I don't think either R2 team has a realistic chance at winning state either. I guess that could be misconstrued as not giving those teams "credit" for good seasons either. Also, I think it's funny how you are compelled to take shots at EHS during this discussion too. You have your opinions and I have mine. I suspect most that know high school basketball and have seen these teams play this year would agree my assessment is fair. Oh well, I'm done with this exchange. Good luck to the Grainger girls in their quest for regional, substate and state championships. The games will surely be decided on the floor and not on this forum.

Thanks. Grainger High is only 4 years old. We used to be Rutledge and we have had 3 previous teams make the state tournament with 2 of those advancing to the semifinals.

Edited February 29, 2012 by RHS02

[KevB1990]

Funny how you continue to say I have a hard time giving others "credit." The real issue must be your perception of what "credit" really is. I have said multiple times that Grainger deserves "credit" for their performance and record this year. They have done presumably what no other Grainger team has ever done, i.e. won the district with 30+ wins (unless I'm wrong). I guess that doesn't count as "credit" since I didn't pick them to win the state championship. Honestly, I don't understand your apparent anger and why you seem to be so offended by my comments. I haven't degraded Grainger at all - just offered an opinion about how I feel they stack up against others in the state. I could expound my prognostication to say that I don't think either R2 team has a realistic chance at winning state either. I guess that could be misconstrued as not giving those teams "credit" for good seasons either. Also, I think it's funny how you are compelled to take shots at EHS during this discussion too. You have your opinions and I have mine. I suspect most that know high school basketball and have seen these teams play this year would agree my assessment is fair. Oh well, I'm done with this exchange. Good luck to the Grainger girls in their quest for regional, substate and state championships. The games will surely be decided on the floor and not on this forum.

 

Seems like a good place to jump in...being the former SID for Rutledge High School...

 

The Rutledge records, trophies, All-State recipients plaques and so on now reside at Grainger High. The Lady Pioneers (now Lady Grizzlies) made two previous appearance at the TSSAA State Tournament. 1977 (or 78, forgive me I've been in Ohio for the past six years) and 1998.

 

They made the Final Four of the 98 tourney.

 

The 77 team was coached by Curtis Wells, who is the great uncle of one of the current team members. Doug McBee (yes the father of the "stache") coached the 98 team and he is also the great uncle of the previously mentioned team memeber as well as the uncle of another one of the current members. A lot of family ties are with this particular bunch. I'm sure I'm forgetting some other notable ties that while they didn't play in the State Tournament, they were important in the history of Grainger (Rutledge) girl's basketball.

 

Also, head coach Justin Combs' father Ronnie played on the only Rutledge boy's team to make it to the state tourney...he played with A.W. Davis on that 1959 team. Like I said a lot of family ties. Grainger County is tight-knit and boy do I miss it!

Edited February 29, 2012 by KevB1990

[etownsparky]

Seems like a good place to jump in...being the former SID for Rutledge High School...

 

The Rutledge records, trophies, All-State recipients plaques and so on now reside at Grainger High. The Lady Pioneers (now Lady Grizzlies) made two previous appearance at the TSSAA State Tournament. 1977 (or 78, forgive me I've been in Ohio for the past six years) and 1998.

They made the Final Four of the 98 tourney. The 77 team was coached by Curtis Wells, who is the great uncle of one of the current team members. Doug McBee (yes the father of the "stache") coached the 98 team and he is the uncle of another one of the current members. A lot of family ties are with this particular bunch. I'm sure I'm forgetting some other notable ties that while they didn't play in the State Tournament, they were important in the history of Grainger (Rutledge) girl's basketball.

 

Also, head coach Justin Combs' father Ronnie played on the only Rutledge boy's team to make it to the state tourney...he played with A.W. Davis on that 1959 team. Like I said a lot of family ties. Grainger County is tight-knit and boy do I miss it!

Great information. I was aware that Grainger essentially replaced Rutledge, but don't know anything about Rutledge's history. Do you know the records for the previous Rutledge girls' state tourney teams? My reason for asking is to know how their record's compared to this year's Grainger team and which team had/has the most wins in a season. Also, do you know who Rutledge played in the Region/Substate/State those years? By the way, Grainger seems like a great community. I have traveled over there a few times over the past 5 years watching my daughter play softball. The Lady Grizzlies have been a major nemesis to the Lady Cyclones in softball during that time...

[KevB1990]

Great information. I was aware that Grainger essentially replaced Rutledge, but don't know anything about Rutledge's history. Do you know the records for the previous Rutledge girls' state tourney teams? My reason for asking is to know how their record's compared to this year's Grainger team and which team had/has the most wins in a season. Also, do you know who Rutledge played in the Region/Substate/State those years? By the way, Grainger seems like a great community. I have traveled over there a few times over the past 5 years watching my daughter play softball. The Lady Grizzlies have been a major nemesis to the Lady Cyclones in softball during that time...

I'm not at all certain about the '77 team's record (I was only five ). The '98 team set a record for wins with 31 and ended up 31-5 that season. The '97 team won 30 games, but lost at Lenior City in the sectional. That means that as of right now the Lady Grizz hold the school record for wins and are assured of finishing with the best record in school history.

 

Oh and Rutledge played South Greene in the sectional in '98, which is also the last time they won three in the same season over the Lady Rebs. It was a standing-room only, overflow-into-the-lunchroom crowd which probably made the T$$AA set seating requirements for the sectional games...after the short-lived sectional tournament died a painful death.

Edited February 29, 2012 by KevB1990

[gcfball]

RHS posted the following in reference to your post:

Couldn't have said it better myself gcfball. Etown likes him some upper east tn bball. not much credit given to anyone else though.

 

Here is my response to both:

 

Elizabethton was ranked #1 for part of the season last year. I still maintain they were one of the best 3 teams in AA. They did lose to CAK, but I consider CAK to be better than average (they were better than last year's Grainger team Y I consider to be better than average). As for Besty beating Cannon 5+ times out of 10, that is an OPINION as well since we will never know. Using the law of averages, Betsy would have performed better at the line in some of those hypothetical 10 games. Cannon had a few weaknesses that could have been better exploited as well. Regardless, the dynamics of playing at the state tournament are certainly different than a regular game, but you act as though every game was a 40 point blow-out for Betsy last year. There were some very close competitive games.

 

I don't have a problem if Grainger fans brag about their team's accomplishments. Certainly they are to be commended for what they have done this year and should be very proud. I have given Grainger the credit they are due. Any time a team wins 30+ games in a season that is phenomonal and I hope they do well the remainder of the post-seasaon. But, they are not a state championship caliber team in my opinion. Do you not agree the BRAC was weaker overall this year than anytime in recent history? If not, that is for sure a fundamental difference in how we look at the situation. This is not just some idea that I conceived. I have heard lots of people with the same opinion. My comments about Grainger's chances for a state title have nothing to do with D1-AA. I've made it clear that in my opinion D1 was a huge disappointment this year. Nowhere in my posts have I said that any of the D1 teams were great this year. Absolutely, D2 swept D1 in the regionals, but all were close competitive games (except maybe SG vs. Unicoi). D1's 4th place team took Grainger down to the wire at Grainger. Additionally, Grainger barely got by probably the weakest Greeneville team that I have ever seen them have (I know, they beat Betsy, but that has nothing to do with my argument). All I'm saying is that based on the results from the district and regional games, Grainger is not heads and shoulders above the other teams. In order to compete for the gold ball, I think they would have to have handled the recent competition more handily. I'm not hating on Grainger, but rather just making a judgement. I have no allegiance to any teams in the other districts that I mentioned in my previous post. Again, this is just a judgement. Maybe the teams across the state are down as a whole. If so, maybe Grainger has a chance. I'd love to see anyone east of Knoxville win state. Regardless, good luck and I hope, at minimum, the Grainger girls make it to M'boro. That in itself would be an awesome and unforgettable experience for them. To win it would be monumental. We'll know pretty soon. If the Lady Grizzlies pull it off I will certainly post my congratulations and admit I was wrong. Peace...

 

I never said Grainger would win it all this year, just that they are better than any team in region 1. I COMPLETELY agree that the BRAC was down this year, but they were still better than district 1.

As far as CAK last year: 1-my average statement was based on their record last year, not a team that I would expect to beat #1 in state (at the time). 2-once again your OPINION is that CAK was better than Grainger last year...not necessarily a fact. Keep in mind that Grainger started 1 freshman, 2 soph's, and 2 junior's last year...with no seniors on the team.

I KNOW that Middle TN is the strength of girls basketball and the best team in East TN most seasons would realistically be 8-10 at best. However, basketball is crazy...like an 8th grader leading her team to a win over the #1 high school team in the state. Anything can happen on any given night...especially in high school girls basketball.

As far as Grainger barely winning recently: 3 games were without leading scorer/rebounder Johnson...who also creates major match-up problems for opponents. After being hospitalized, her 1st game back was sub-par. Regional semis, however, she had 25 and 14 while 3-pt shooter Cabbage struggled through an 0-7, and district-tournament MVP Hodge conveniently received 3 fouls in very limited 1st half action.

Edited February 29, 2012 by gcfball

[gcfball]

Funny how you continue to say I have a hard time giving others "credit." The real issue must be your perception of what "credit" really is. I have said multiple times that Grainger deserves "credit" for their performance and record this year. They have done presumably what no other Grainger team has ever done, i.e. won the district with 30+ wins (unless I'm wrong). I guess that doesn't count as "credit" since I didn't pick them to win the state championship. Honestly, I don't understand your apparent anger and why you seem to be so offended by my comments. I haven't degraded Grainger at all - just offered an opinion about how I feel they stack up against others in the state. I could expound my prognostication to say that I don't think either R2 team has a realistic chance at winning state either. I guess that could be misconstrued as not giving those teams "credit" for good seasons either. Also, I think it's funny how you are compelled to take shots at EHS during this discussion too. You have your opinions and I have mine. I suspect most that know high school basketball and have seen these teams play this year would agree my assessment is fair. Oh well, I'm done with this exchange. Good luck to the Grainger girls in their quest for regional, substate and state championships. The games will surely be decided on the floor and not on this forum.

 

I think what he is saying, and I agree, is that all of your "credit" given to Grainger is usually followed or preceded with an excuse to why they have a good record: 1-BRAC is down, 2- at Christmas tournament, they were in weak bracket, 3- they have had close games lately so not "head-and-shoulders" above anyone.

By the way, do you think that the 3-Rivers district top-to-bottom has been better than the BRAC the past 4 seasons.? I say NOT EVEN CLOSE! They have 2 teams that could finish in the top 5 in BRAC last 4 seasons.

[etownsparky]

I think what he is saying, and I agree, is that all of your "credit" given to Grainger is usually followed or preceded with an excuse to why they have a good record: 1-BRAC is down, 2- at Christmas tournament, they were in weak bracket, 3- they have had close games lately so not "head-and-shoulders" above anyone.

By the way, do you think that the 3-Rivers district top-to-bottom has been better than the BRAC the past 4 seasons.? I say NOT EVEN CLOSE! They have 2 teams that could finish in the top 5 in BRAC last 4 seasons.

Not excuses, but rather rationale. The BRAC is definitely down this year in my opinion. Do you agree or not? Neither you nor RHS02 have expressed disagreement with this contention, but rather divert attention away from that subject by taking shots at the TRC. Secondly, I don't recall mentioning anything about the Xmas tournament, but if I did I suspect it was accurate. Thirdly, I honestly don't believe Grainger is "heads and shoulders" above Greeneville, SG, CD, Unicoi or Elizabethton this year. Unicoi had the same personnel this year as last and were slightly better I'd say, but all the others I mention are down this year from last. I mentioned the recent games on purpose just because I think timing is relevant. In order to make a run in post-season, any team needs to be playing their best this time of year. I absolutely agree the TRC has not been better from top to bottom in the past 4 seasons. One major reason is the conference realignment that moved the Greene Co. schools to the BRAC - obviously this weakened D1 and strengthened D2. I also agree that on average only the top 2 TRC teams could have finished in the top 5 of the BRAC over that period albeit those two teams would likely have finished in the top 3 each of those years except possibly this season. No doubt the BRAC has had more balance over this timeframe. The TRC has had 2 to 3 good teams while the BRAC has had 4-5 good teams. However, that was never my point and I'm pretty sure you know that. I was not trying to disparage the BRAC or Grainger or compare the TRC to the BRAC. I was simply pointing out the conditions as I see them this year. Hypothetically, how do you think this year's Grainger team stacks up against the SG, CD or Greeneville teams of the past 5 years (this year excluded)? Would this year's Grainger team have run the table in the conference against those past BRAC teams? To use your words, "NOT EVEN CLOSE." You probably say this is irrelevant. Maybe, but it is a comparison similar to your comparison of the TRC to the BRAC over the same timeframe so I say it is relevant. I could go on and on with rationale, but there's no need. Again, I suppose the concept of credit must be expressed as unconditional love for your team to count with you. Sorry, one of my many weaknesses is expressing the truth as I see it regardless of who likes it. Anyway, I offer my congrats and best wishes again to the Lady Grizzlies.

Edited March 1, 2012 by etownsparky

[gcfball]

Not excuses, but rather rationale. The BRAC is definitely down this year in my opinion. Do you agree or not? Neither you nor RHS02 have expressed disagreement with this contention, but rather divert attention away from that subject by taking shots at the TRC. Secondly, I don't recall mentioning anything about the Xmas tournament, but if I did I suspect it was accurate. Thirdly, I honestly don't believe Grainger is "heads and shoulders" above Greeneville, SG, CD, Unicoi or Elizabethton this year. Unicoi had the same personnel this year as last and were slightly better I'd say, but all the others I mention are down this year from last. I mentioned the recent games on purpose just because I think timing is relevant. In order to make a run in post-season, any team needs to be playing their best this time of year. I absolutely agree the TRC has not been better from top to bottom in the past 4 seasons. One major reason is the conference realignment that moved the Greene Co. schools to the BRAC - obviously this weakened D1 and strengthened D2. I also agree that on average only the top 2 TRC teams could have finished in the top 5 of the BRAC over that period albeit those two teams would likely have finished in the top 3 each of those years except possibly this season. No doubt the BRAC has had more balance over this timeframe. The TRC has had 2 to 3 good teams while the BRAC has had 4-5 good teams. However, that was never my point and I'm pretty sure you know that. I was not trying to disparage the BRAC or Grainger or compare the TRC to the BRAC. I was simply pointing out the conditions as I see them this year. Hypothetically, how do you think this year's Grainger team stacks up against the SG, CD or Greeneville teams of the past 5 years (this year excluded)? Would this year's Grainger team have run the table in the conference against those past BRAC teams? To use your words, "NOT EVEN CLOSE." You probably say this is irrelevant. Maybe, but it is a comparison similar to your comparison of the TRC to the BRAC over the same timeframe so I say it is relevant. I could go on and on with rationale, but there's no need. Again, I suppose the concept of credit must be expressed as unconditional love for your team to count with you. Sorry, one of my many weaknesses is expressing the truth as I see it regardless of who likes it. Anyway, I offer my congrats and best wishes again to the Lady Grizzlies.

 

Yes, I believe the BRAC was borderline awful this year COMPARED to the past 3. There is no way this Grainger team could have run the table in the BRAC the last 3 years. Greeneville had their worst season in at least 12-15 years and SG had their worse season since I have been alive!

As for how Grainger matches up with last years Elizabethon (which is really irrelevant, but I will answer). I think last years Elizabethon beats this years Grainger by about 8-12. The age of Grainger last year was reason for the lopsided score versus Elizabethon. Remember when Elizabethon girls were juniors and they lost to Greeneville in region semis...greeneville started 2 solid seniors and 2 juniors who are now playing in college. Experience means a lot in girls basketball.

As for the CHRISTmas tournament comment, that may have been coachh, I sometimes get your 2 comments mixed up.

Edited March 1, 2012 by gcfball

[gcfball]

Not excuses, but rather rationale. The BRAC is definitely down this year in my opinion. Do you agree or not? Neither you nor RHS02 have expressed disagreement with this contention, but rather divert attention away from that subject by taking shots at the TRC. Secondly, I don't recall mentioning anything about the Xmas tournament, but if I did I suspect it was accurate. Thirdly, I honestly don't believe Grainger is "heads and shoulders" above Greeneville, SG, CD, Unicoi or Elizabethton this year. Unicoi had the same personnel this year as last and were slightly better I'd say, but all the others I mention are down this year from last. I mentioned the recent games on purpose just because I think timing is relevant. In order to make a run in post-season, any team needs to be playing their best this time of year. I absolutely agree the TRC has not been better from top to bottom in the past 4 seasons. One major reason is the conference realignment that moved the Greene Co. schools to the BRAC - obviously this weakened D1 and strengthened D2. I also agree that on average only the top 2 TRC teams could have finished in the top 5 of the BRAC over that period albeit those two teams would likely have finished in the top 3 each of those years except possibly this season. No doubt the BRAC has had more balance over this timeframe. The TRC has had 2 to 3 good teams while the BRAC has had 4-5 good teams. However, that was never my point and I'm pretty sure you know that. I was not trying to disparage the BRAC or Grainger or compare the TRC to the BRAC. I was simply pointing out the conditions as I see them this year. Hypothetically, how do you think this year's Grainger team stacks up against the SG, CD or Greeneville teams of the past 5 years (this year excluded)? Would this year's Grainger team have run the table in the conference against those past BRAC teams? To use your words, "NOT EVEN CLOSE." You probably say this is irrelevant. Maybe, but it is a comparison similar to your comparison of the TRC to the BRAC over the same timeframe so I say it is relevant. I could go on and on with rationale, but there's no need. Again, I suppose the concept of credit must be expressed as unconditional love for your team to count with you. Sorry, one of my many weaknesses is expressing the truth as I see it regardless of who likes it. Anyway, I offer my congrats and best wishes again to the Lady Grizzlies.

 

Also, I never said they were head and shoulders above local teams, because I don't believe they are. They are, however, undefeated versus them.

By the way, my "team" is not even Grainger so I couldnt care less about your "unconditional" love for them.

You tell me you are rationale and challenge me to answer certain questions...I have done this. Now would you answer this: Do you really think that you have given Grainger REAL credit for their 31-2 season? Because honestly, you always throw in a "reason" why they have been successful.