Referee's take on the Duals

[downforthecount]

I post this knowing this is a no win proposition. It's easy to officiate from the stands and we certainly make enough mistakes on our own. We only have three objectives and they are in this order-to the best of our abiltiy make sure that the wrestlers compete safely, make sure no one has an unfair advantage over the other and to recognize when points have been earned. We honest to God don't care who wins. I only worked one DII match and that was the finals so I can't address anything before then. The fact that you confused who is from Nashville and who is not is fine because it is not about us. There were no refs who worked consecutive matches (other than to assist and have the whistle the next match) so conspiracy theorisits about inconsistencies from match A to A+1 are just random. We are working on becoming more consistant across the state but there are still minor differences among us.

 

In the big picture, did the wrestlers leave Franklin healthy? For the most part the answer is yes. Did the best teams win (did someone receive an unfair advantage)? I don't follow the results to really know, but I understand that Baylor wrestled Ryan three times and won all three, Pigeon Forge has been dominate all year and while Wilson Central has closed the gap that Cleveland was still the better team on Sat.

 

Specifically, in the DII finals, I called both the 113 and 126 matches when stalling seemed to be an issue (according to this Board). At 126, the better wrestler won, however, there were times in the match when one wrestler wasn't (in the opinion of this referee) trying to score and instead was trying to shorten the match. He was penalized accordingly. The easy stalling call for a referee is when one wrestler exposes the other for stalling. The tougher one is when neither is opening up. Typically the ref wants to hit one for stalling, if the action doesn't pick up the other is hit shortly after. It's amazing how quickly the behavior changes after the first stalling call. Many times both wrestlers pick it up after the first warning, sometimes it takes more.

 

Were some wrestlers tryng not to get pinned...probably. It takes so much courage to step on the mat and compete especially when you know you are overmatched. That's one piece of what is great about our sport. Bravery is being afraid but doing it anyway.

 

At 113, I'm not sure but I think with tie breakers the match was already over. Either way, the objective for the Ryan wrestler was to pin and Baylor wanted to keep from being pinned. Again, the better wrestler won (Baylor was warned, penalized once and penalized a second time for stalling) and while the Ryan kid dominated the match (in the opinion of this referee) he did not do enough to turn the Baylor kid, who did not run. In the third he was close to a Petersen and defended himself. As a referee, we are not there to decide matches. We recognize when points are earned and a fall nor stalling disqualification were earned.

 

I think it was a glorious weekend of wrestling and hope the next couple of weeks are as good.

[anotherback]

Dumbest thing I've read on here is someone saying the kid was trying not to get pinned. Really? Pretty sure it's real important not to get pinned. Some kids just don't know how to get off the bottom and others know if they do something else they might get cradled or have a half put on them and turned etc. And yeah some just stall for different reasons but to say they were trying not to get pinned is stupid. Rephrase it.

[Newestguy]

Dumbest thing I've read on here is someone saying the kid was trying not to get pinned. Really? Pretty sure it's real important not to get pinned. Some kids just don't know how to get off the bottom and others know if they do something else they might get cradled or have a half put on them and turned etc. And yeah some just stall for different reasons but to say they were trying not to get pinned is stupid. Rephrase it.

I don't think it's stupid at all.

 

a) Some coaches teach kids to try and pin the guy (translates to get out and attack).

B)Others teach to just try to win (get out or hold on with no risk).

c) Others teach to try not to lose (just don't get turned).

d) Others teach to just try and not get pinned (stall).

 

As a fan (and former competitor) I'll go with (a)

 

 

 

There's a major difference between legitimately trying to get out of bottom and trying not to get pinned. If a kid isn't trying to get out of bottom because he's "afraid of getting cradled" there's a word for that. It's called "stalling". If he just isn't very good and can't get out of bottom then most referees recognize that. He'll probably get turned. If on the other hand he is simply holding the guys wrist with no attempt to improve position because he doesn't want to get pinned, that's called "stalling".

Edited February 2, 2015 by Newestguy

[anotherback]

I don't think it's stupid at all.

 

a) Some coaches teach kids to try and pin the guy (translates to get out and attack).

B)Others teach to just try to win (get out or hold on with no risk).

c) Others teach to try not to lose (just don't get turned).

d) Others teach to just try and not get pinned (stall).

 

As a fan (and former competitor) I'll go with (a)

 

 

 

There's a major difference between legitimately trying to get out of bottom and trying not to get pinned. If a kid isn't trying to get out of bottom because he's "afraid of getting cradled" there's a word for that. It's called "stalling". If he just isn't very good and can't get out of bottom then most referees recognize that. He'll probably get turned. If on the other hand he is simply holding the guys wrist with no attempt to improve position because he doesn't want to get pinned, that's called "stalling".

[anotherback]

Then say he's stalling. That's my point . The phrase he's trying not to get pinned is stupid. Period. You're not supposed to get pinned. Of course they stall sometimes,of course they are coached to do it,to say "he's trying not to get pinned." Phrase is stupid. It's the refs job to stop it not an opinion from the stands. I've never seen a kid who tried to get pinned not get pinned.

[Dores61]

Dumbest thing I've read on here is someone saying the kid was trying not to get pinned. Really? Pretty sure it's real important not to get pinned. Some kids just don't know how to get off the bottom and others know if they do something else they might get cradled or have a half put on them and turned etc. And yeah some just stall for different reasons but to say they were trying not to get pinned is stupid. Rephrase it.

Is it really the dumbest thing? Happens all the time when kids go out there with no other intention than to not get pinned.

[fooseball96]

Seems like this thread is made every year because someone's team didn't win

[Newestguy]

Then say he's stalling. That's my point . The phrase he's trying not to get pinned is stupid. Period. You're not supposed to get pinned. Of course they stall sometimes,of course they are coached to do it,to say "he's trying not to get pinned." Phrase is stupid. It's the refs job to stop it not an opinion from the stands. I've never seen a kid who tried to get pinned not get pinned.

Do you want to really argue semantics? To me it exposes the mindset.

 

Some wrestle to pin. Others wrestle to not get pinned. Amazing how the mindset before the match almost always determines the outcome.

[anotherback]

Do you want to really argue semantics? To me it exposes the mindset.

 

Some wrestle to pin. Others wrestle to not get pinned. Amazing how the mindset before the match almost always determines the outcome.

I'm not arguing anything. Why would you try to get pinned? Might as well forfeit. Explain it better , I'm obviously not getting how trying to get pinned belongs in wrestling. Please enlighten me.

[reftn]

I'm not arguing anything. Why would you try to get pinned? Might as well forfeit. Explain it better , I'm obviously not getting how trying to get pinned belongs in wrestling. Please enlighten me.

You are familiar with the point system in wrestling and terms such as bonus points?  You understand these in context?

 

You have just been enlightened.

[anotherback]

You are familiar with the point system in wrestling and terms such as bonus points? You understand these in context?

 

You have just been enlightened.

That was my point, thanks for making it. Of course they don't want to get pinned. Why complain with that phrase. Go read these post all he did was try not to get pinned. If he did and his team won cause he didn't good for him. Edited February 2, 2015 by anotherback

[rgiii]

I post this knowing this is a no win proposition. It's easy to officiate from the stands and we certainly make enough mistakes on our own. We only have three objectives and they are in this order-to the best of our abiltiy make sure that the wrestlers compete safely, make sure no one has an unfair advantage over the other and to recognize when points have been earned. We honest to God don't care who wins. I only worked one DII match and that was the finals so I can't address anything before then. The fact that you confused who is from Nashville and who is not is fine because it is not about us. There were no refs who worked consecutive matches (other than to assist and have the whistle the next match) so conspiracy theorisits about inconsistencies from match A to A+1 are just random. We are working on becoming more consistant across the state but there are still minor differences among us.

 

In the big picture, did the wrestlers leave Franklin healthy? For the most part the answer is yes. Did the best teams win (did someone receive an unfair advantage)? I don't follow the results to really know, but I understand that Baylor wrestled Ryan three times and won all three, Pigeon Forge has been dominate all year and while Wilson Central has closed the gap that Cleveland was still the better team on Sat.

 

Specifically, in the DII finals, I called both the 113 and 126 matches when stalling seemed to be an issue (according to this Board). At 126, the better wrestler won, however, there were times in the match when one wrestler wasn't (in the opinion of this referee) trying to score and instead was trying to shorten the match. He was penalized accordingly. The easy stalling call for a referee is when one wrestler exposes the other for stalling. The tougher one is when neither is opening up. Typically the ref wants to hit one for stalling, if the action doesn't pick up the other is hit shortly after. It's amazing how quickly the behavior changes after the first stalling call. Many times both wrestlers pick it up after the first warning, sometimes it takes more.

 

Were some wrestlers tryng not to get pinned...probably. It takes so much courage to step on the mat and compete especially when you know you are overmatched. That's one piece of what is great about our sport. Bravery is being afraid but doing it anyway.

 

At 113, I'm not sure but I think with tie breakers the match was already over. Either way, the objective for the Ryan wrestler was to pin and Baylor wanted to keep from being pinned. Again, the better wrestler won (Baylor was warned, penalized once and penalized a second time for stalling) and while the Ryan kid dominated the match (in the opinion of this referee) he did not do enough to turn the Baylor kid, who did not run. In the third he was close to a Petersen and defended himself. As a referee, we are not there to decide matches. We recognize when points are earned and a fall nor stalling disqualification were earned.

 

I think it was a glorious weekend of wrestling and hope the next couple of weeks are as good.

Excellent post, I for one appreciate feedback from officials. I agree with your synopsis of those matches. At the 113, contrary to some opionions by others I thought the Baylor kid was wrestling. Yes, he was trying to not get pinned but he was also trying to score. Even at 106 I thought the Baylor kid was wrestling for the most part. The Fr Ryan kid was all over him and the Baylor kid didn't have time to mount any offense. At 126 I didn't think their was stalling enough to be called. I don't remember stalling being called in that match but I may have missed it. I know both teams were trying to win that match. My comments about stalling being called and not called were not in regards to the matches you officiated. I'm not sure who the official was, I thought he was from Nashville. Other than his matches I felt the officiating was very good