TSSAA's Stranglehold on DII

[yellowdog]

Why would the TSSAA not just ask the small D1 private schools if they would go into D2 if they added another classificaton? All of this cloak & dagger stuff is crazy. Just ask the question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has nothing to do with cloak & dagger. Whether you like it or not or believe it or not it is all about winning. Every school is looking for what is best for their fit into the system. If you asked what DI schools were moving to DII you'd have to ask what DII schools are moving back to DI. To be fair you also would have to ask what DI schools want to move up in sports. Everyone wants to know where they'll be when the new classification numbers are released -- it is for that very reason schools are asked to make their decision before classification alignments are released. If you did not do this there would be chaos as schools manuver for the best fit for them.

 

Now, if you want to get into cloak & dagger stuff -- then if I were DII committee I would have asked each board member (in secret of course) to vote for two classes for DII because they "knew" ____ (pick a number) schools were going to declare themselves as DII. Then maybe the vote would have been different.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I could care less what they do...but I will add these two cents.

 

 

Schools like:

 

Name:

Elliston Baptist 74 people

Lausanne 154 people

 

supposed to compete against:

MBA (all boys) 870

CBHS (all boys) 1722

 

all of these numbers I got from the TSSAA site.

 

 

I don't see how those schools are supposed to compete against other D2 schools with larger enrollments and the ability to give out more financial aide in sports like wrestling, basketball, baseball, track, etc.

 

 

That would be like a 1A school, playing an 11A school! (74 to 870...and actually thats not accurate cus the 74 is co-ed and not all boys!)

 

I'd like to hear how that is justifiable.

[yellowdog]

I could care less what they do...but I will add these two cents.

 

 

Schools like:

 

Name:

Elliston Baptist 74 people

Lausanne 154 people

 

supposed to compete against:

MBA (all boys) 870

CBHS (all boys) 1722

 

all of these numbers I got from the TSSAA site.

 

 

I don't see how those schools are supposed to compete against other D2 schools with larger enrollments and the ability to give out more financial aide in sports like wrestling, basketball, baseball, track, etc.

 

 

That would be like a 1A school, playing an 11A school! (74 to 870...and actually thats not accurate cus the 74 is co-ed and not all boys!)

 

I'd like to hear how that is justifiable.

Elliston Baptist - 2 state championships in bowling

Lausanne -- state boys championship game in basketball

Univ. School Nasville -- soccer championship game

[WesVLT]

let me add a public voice of support.

it is ridiculous that the privates cant make the decisions for their own division.

i dont understand what the tssaa is thinking.

It is true that DII does not have direct representation on the Board (although election to the board is open to any candidate from any school). But DII has something that DI does not have and that is a DII committee. Almost all of the DII changes have come as suggestions from this committee. e.g three classes in football, moving the state basketball tournament to Belmont, determing how state track qualifiers are determined, etc. etc.

 

There is strong evidence to show that DII is getting a whole lot more of the changes they want because of the DII committee suggestions.

 

Very few of the DII committee's recommendations are turned down. From what I heard, the biggest opposition behind the board's decision to not go to two classes at this time was due to not knowing how many schools would be in DII this next classification period. There may be some schools opt to move back to DI, while there are some schools in DI that may opt for DII. Why should the Board make a decision on an unknown factor? After the classification is set for the next four years then the Board can revisit the suggestion and make a decision based on sound data.

 

Finally, before the TSSAA bashing continues about not giving DII their two classes you need to ask this question. Did the DII committee lobby each board member with their suggestion or did they just meet, make a suggestion, and submit it to the board? Like it or not, every organization that has a voting board works this way -- whether it is county commission, school board, the board of your local golf club or the state senate. In all levels of government if you want your voice heard you must lobby the voting body. It has always been that way and will probably always be that way.

yellowdog, I'm certainly glad there's a DII Committee -- it appears to be doing a lot of good; however, my problem comes with the fact that it still has to answer to a board made up of public school administrators. Why not just answer to Carter himself? It seems it would be fairer that way.

[yellowdog]

yellowdog, I'm certainly glad there's a DII Committee -- it appears to be doing a lot of good; however, my problem comes with the fact that it still has to answer to a board made up of public school administrators. Why not just answer to Carter himself? It seems it would be fairer that way.

Wesvols, First off, Carter is elected by the board and he has no vote on the board.

 

Now to your comment on representation. I too think that DII should have representation on the board. But, I don't have a clue as to how to do it. How many DII members would you have on the board? Should DI-privates be represented? Should there be representatives for rural schools? What about inner city schools? What about city school systems? What is fair? I certainly don't know.

 

There are a growing number of DI schools that want their own DI committee, since they see the great strides the DII committee has made.

 

Also, I don't like the whole DII/DI thing - I'd like to see everyone together again.

 

My compromise is to let everyone play regular season against each other and separate for the play-offs and completely eliminate DII. Not what I'd like to do, but would settle on a compromist like that.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I could care less what they do...but I will add these two cents.

 

 

Schools like:

 

Name:

Elliston Baptist                74 people

Lausanne                      154 people

 

supposed to compete against:

MBA (all boys)                870

CBHS (all boys)              1722

 

all of these numbers I got from the TSSAA site.

 

 

I don't see how those schools are supposed to compete against other D2 schools with larger enrollments and the ability to give out more financial aide in sports like wrestling, basketball, baseball, track, etc.

 

 

That would be like a 1A school, playing an 11A school! (74 to 870...and actually thats not accurate cus the 74 is co-ed and not all boys!)

 

I'd like to hear how that is justifiable.

Elliston Baptist - 2 state championships in bowling

Lausanne -- state boys championship game in basketball

Univ. School Nasville -- soccer championship game

yellowdog,

 

you are correct...however that is still not fair.

CPA in 2000 would have beaten most of the 5A schools in football...obvioulsy we would not have that CPA team playing 5A schools year in and year out in all sports, just because one year they were good. I bet the Cloudland teams that were beat 4A Cherokee would have competed well against some 4A schools, but not all of them. How would Cloudland do if they played Hillsboro, Maryville, East, Melrose and the rest of the 4A schools.

 

By the thought process you have proposed, we do not need any type of classifications, because once in a while, a schools team will do pretty well, thus justifying their placement for all sports, both girls and boys.

Edited June 12, 2004 by TheEgoHasLanded

[yellowdog]

By the thought process you have proposed, we do not need any type of classifications, because once in a while, a schools team will do pretty well, thus justifying their placement for all sports, both girls and boys.

Philosophical question.

 

TSSAA played 50 years with no classification. It wasn't until the 1970's when it all started. Now the association awards 65 state championships each year.

 

What changed the game from no-classification to multiple classes? The exponential growth in state championships has far exceeded the population growth.

 

How many championships should be awarded? Is the oganization awarding too many or to few? What is the purpose of classification? and what is fair to the schools?

[TheEgoHasLanded]

You answered my question with a question.

 

To answer your philosophical question...

 

I wouldn't be complaining if they went to one classification total. Do you know why I wouldnt be? Because it is not a numbers issue, it is a participation and turnout issue. That is why some schools like Germantown, Farragut, and Brentwood are stellar in some sports...yet struggle in others.

 

What changed the game from no-classification to multiple classes? The exponential growth in state championships has far exceeded the population growth

 

I realize that football is a different issue. Players health actually comes in to play because of depth and size. You yourself gave great examples of how schools like USN, Elliston, Lausanne can compete in some sports...football is a numbers game, and because that, their should be classifications. Kids can actually get hurt...otherwise I would say divide it up and the best man win. When I was a senior we played Brentwood Academy, and I believe it was 7 point game at halftime. In the second half, they really put it on us...they also had 40 more players than us...

 

I have been around AAU basketball for over 10 years now, and no one ever complains because some teams have more money, taller players, better players, better facilities, better coaches, or flashy jerseys. Everyone competes for one prize...I think it's nice that way.

 

The emphasis on sports has also changed the game. AAU was not around 50 years ago, and I bet there weren't nearly as many schools, players, or coaches around then as there is now (even if you took the ratio of people living to those who played, I bet now it's much greater). College and pro sports weren't as big.

[BuckLateral]

The thread of this post seems to have detoured somewhat from Redup's original post regarding the "curious" postponement of the D-II split into big schools/small schools until after the current D-I privates must make a decision whether to stay or go. Here is what the Nashville City Paper had to say about that in this morning's edition. Redup------------is Bonvissuto your pen name?

 

 

 

TSSAA decides to not decide

Commentary by Dominic Bonvissuto, dbonvissuto@nashvillecitypaper.com

June 14, 2004

 

 

The biggest decision made at last week’s TSSAA Board of Control meeting was the one that wasn’t.

 

When the board voted to table the Division II committee’s proposal for a two-class plan in sports other than football, it basically said a sarcastic “good luck” to a handful of Division I private schools contemplating the jump to D-II.

 

And that’s putting it mildly.

 

For the past five months, ever since the TSSAA instituted the 1.8 multiplier rule in D-I, a handful of local D-I private schools have been wrestling with the decision to jump to D-II or just stay put.

 

Among other things, Nashville’s academies — Christ Presbyterian, Davidson, Donelson Christian and Franklin Road, among others — are concerned with their lack of representation in Division I. And rightfully so, as the nine-member Board of Control has always consisted of public school administrators and probably always will.

 

Remember studying the American Revolution? Think taxation without representation, only this time the Board of Control is the British and private schools are the colonists.

 

The CPAs and DCAs of this world were “taxed” with the 1.8 multiplier because they were winning too many state championships. Be fruitful and multiply? The Board of Control may have taken the Bible’s words too literally.

 

So now, those schools are weighing the pros and cons of D-I and D-II. If they stay in D-I, for Davidson Academy and its 300-student enrollment, it likely means playing 900-student schools like Maplewood or Pearl-Cohn in basketball.

 

And you thought Ezell-Harding 66, Loretto 12 in football was lopsided?

 

But in D-II, it might not be any better in its present state. Currently in D-II, the 33 schools that compete in basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, soccer, etc., are all lumped into one classification. Seeing the opportunity to gain more than a dozen new schools, D-II quickly proposed to have two classes — a large-school and a small-school — to entice the smaller D-I privates to make the jump.

 

And it almost worked. More than one DI private school athletics director told me they’d make the move if this were the case. But Wednesday, the Board of Control, citing a concern of splitting an already small classification into two even tinier classes, chose to table the proposal until their next meeting.

 

That next scheduled meeting is Aug. 23 in Hermitage. In an odd coincidence, TSSAA has asked the D-I schools to have their decision made by Aug. 15 on whether they’re staying in D-I or going to D-II.

 

That eight-day discrepancy means the D-I schools will not have a clear picture of what life would be like in D-II should they choose to go that route. And just about every D-I private making the jump to D-II would fit into the small-school class, so don’t tell me it’s not relevant.

 

What’s happening here is a poorly disguised attempt at limiting D-II’s worth. It’s no secret that when rival private schools are matched against each other, they draw well at the gate. So how much money would the TSSAA’s D-I constituents lose if the majority of private schools played in D-II?

 

The answer, of course, is a lot. And by tabling D-II’s two-class proposal, it muddies the picture for the D-I privates, who now are as confused as ever.

 

“I wish they’d just make the decision for us,” one D-I private school AD said. “If you want us in D-I, then make us feel welcome. If you want us out, kick us out. But the TSSAA doesn’t want to be the bad guy, and by making the schools make their own decisions, the TSSAA can wash their hands of it.”

 

Which is really just another way for the TSSAA to make a decision without really making one.

 

Sound familiar?