panfan

pioneer, It is great to see you are learning. What those numbers don't show is that alot of the teams the private schools were beating, so were the public schools. in other words, some public schools everyone beats. It would be like if you looked at public school records vs. lighthouse Christian. Publics have a big advantage over them. What I am saying is all teams with losing records should be thrown out of those numbers. This is because they are getting beat by public schools also. If you want to show a true advantage look at good teams vs. good teams. Look at this past years playoffs. CPA, Boyd, DCA all lost to public schools. At least, I think that is right. Plus, I think Friendship lost to a public school also. In fact, I think every private school in the playoffs lost to a public school except USJ and Ezell. So, where is this domination now? The good public schools compete just fine with privates. I have news for all the terrible public schools that cry alot: this just in, eliminate the private schools and you still stink. You still won't win any titles. In fact, you'll start saying your fellow public schools cheat. Get over it. Find a way to win on your own, don't legislate out good competition. I know everyone thinks that cloudland getting beat so bad shows private domination, but everyone should remember that there were about 5 teams better than them in the lower bracket. Ezell was clearly the best team and Cloudland was probably top 10.

my bad.

Yep, VG is right, this plan is more commononly known as a split. Take out all private schools and don't let the publics play them in the playoffs. This came up in another plan called the split. In this plan, all private school went to DII. Once all private schools went to DII, DII within itself split to non-aid and aid giving. Ceaser, any plan which does not allow publics and privates to play each other to find a true champion is a split. you need to think more before you slam folks. your plan can be simply called a split.

No puj, Not blind. i posted facts. i asked you questions you have no answer for. come on man, your own side is laughing at you. by the way, Boyd beat the snot out of FRa last year, so I'd say they'd be more of a top five. get your facts right. [Edited by panfan on 7/7/02 1:55P]

check the top five public schools vs. top 5 private schools. compare the best against the best. collinwood would beat the snot out of most every private school and will probably beat all of them this year. compare the best vs. the best. by the way, what did you use to rank the top 5 privates? CPA lost to collinwood this past year. did you not think CPA was in the top five privates behind Ezell and USJ? your info seems slanted. Boyd Buchanan, I think, lost to a public school, they could have been in the top five this past year. Get your info right and call back.

I like your post there just1, but there is just1 problem. That will never ever ever even be considered. To go through and say, ok you are terrible, you play 1A and then ok you are good you play 3A is silly. Numbers are the only way to go. As far as ticket prices, I am not sure what you were trying to say with that, but I am sure you did not mean the literally. I just can't find what is inbetween the lines. Little help???

indian (all lower case) first of all, all private schools don't cheat like the evil empire ba. so there is a lot wrong with robbing those schools of the opportunity to play other good schools. second, last year was one year specifically. i was talking about in general as you point out later in your post. and yes, riverdale won a title based on being cowards. that is why i respect them less than mccallie. and by the way, trousdale ducked Lipscomb and Goodpature as cowards second. their first motive was to make a political statement. i lost a lot of respect for satterfield when he did that. and by the way, that is a public school that was the best 1a program ever. satter only ducked out when the privates started catching up to him. you are right that collinwood was better than cloudland, but then again, so were probably three or four schools in the lower bracket. you are right ba should be dealt with, but as long as darth vador is at the healm and lawsuits allow them to cheat like crazy. they will continue to be the total terds they always have been. but, you can't allow darth to ruin the whole state of TN football. he likes the attention and loves taking the responsibility for ruining the state. don't let that one guy slant your entire view against all privates. i've met him, and trust me, he is not worth ruining tssaa football over. [Edited by panfan on 7/2/02 11:47P]

Just 1, good luck with any idea that treats schools differently b/c they are terrible. If you let a private school go lower b/c they are terrible, you'd have to let a public. What constitues total terribleness. 2 wins? 3? 0? You'd have to set up rules for that. Then you have teams with either a lose on purpose of face moving up a division. Black and white and by the numbers is the way to go. The truly horrible privates are all so small they'd stay in 1A. Saying, just move them up to 3A doesn't work. You have to have a little backing or plan.

INDIAN A total split is bad for the game, the kids and everyone involved. This past year there were only two privates with a shot -- USJ and Ezell. And, that is about right on a year and and year out basis. Two privates and five or so publics with a real shot. No problem there. A split ruins the importance and meaning of a championship. You rob teams of the opportunity to play the best teams. McCallie may have been the best team in the state this past year. Instead of being able to proove it, they have to settle for a meaningless title over 6 teams. Riverdale may have been the best team in the state. instead of prooving it, they have to listen to McCallie people say "you were the ones who kicked us out. Who's afraid of who." The game is victimized by a split to. You are legislating victory. Should major league baseball seperate into two leagues with one for small market teams and one for large market? Obviously not, they should figure out a way to make things fair. NFL went with a cap. TSSAA can find a way. A split hurts everybody. And really, look at it, split backers have no arguement. They are just jelous or still upset over a game they lost last year (or 10 years ago when they were in school). There is no reason to split except to quiet sore losers. A split is the worst thing a governing body can do. Look at Texas. I have a friend who went to Baylor. Private school championships there are a joke. No one cares. If a split happened here it would be just the opposite. Everyone would know that publics chose to run and hide instead of be a man and face the foe. Who would give a care about a title won in a league founded on cowardness? A split is a terrible idea!

ELA, I love the classes. 6 is one to many, but I think it is the most realistic. the mult numbers are good for non-aid privates.!!!! Best plan yet!! I would tweek it as follows: DII schools will not go back to limits. Put a 3.0 mult on them and let maryville and Riverdale beat them every year. For me to be happy everything has got to be settled on the field. You'd have to put in regions in each class. Even if you have three teams from this region two from this one, or maybe the 1st place teams get a bye. either way, it should be settled on the field. I have to admit, I didn't read the Common plan thread, b/c math and people were involved, so I may have missed some good posts. But, I still say it has to be settled on the field. I love the seeding idea though!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you had reagions and then let a committee seed based on mandatory qualifiers, I'd let that go. in other words, 1st and 2nd place teams go and then are seeded by TSSAA. Overall, I'd vote yes on that one. it keeps everyone together and that is the main thing.

ELA, As you know, I am no longer a high school coach as I have moved back into graduate school full time, but to answer your question: I would guess we had maybe 5 to 7 run better than 4.8. What does that have to do with a split or no split? I skipped some posts, so maybe I missed something. All our skilled guys either run track, play communism, or baseball. All three of those coaches teach great form running and include quickness drills in their practices. Plus our voluntary workouts, which go all winter and all summer, include agilities and running drills. You have said in a post that you can't teach speed. That is correct, but you can maximize potential. Our strength coach is a gift from above. He can't take 5.5 and make them 4.8, but he can take 5.0 and make them 4.75 or 4.9ers and make them 4.7. Either way, what does this have to do with a split? Do you think we take a stopwatch to 4th graders and then try to get them in school? Pujo, if you are not losing any kids to private schools, what are you crying about. Cloudland gets no "private rejects" b/c no kids in that area ever try to go to a private school. In fact, no 1A public gets private rejects. 1A publics get the huge benefit of having an entire county mandaded to go to their school. What a great deal that would be. Anyway, you are proving to have no clue, so I will no longer speak with you. ELA, I WAS IN TYPE MODE WHILE YOU WERE POSTING THE LAST ONE. I SEE WHAT YOU were trying to say. I don't agree that coaches "reach out", but I see what you were saying. [Edited by panfan on 7/2/02 9:27A]

Queen, I couldn't agree more (good mark for you). Pujo, Now I get it. You're a cloudland fan. You guys got beat and now all private schools cheat. I feel sorry for you. As far as picking kids, you are missing the point. The pool to draw from is so small that it really doesn't give any advantage. The pool of rich smart kids is pretty small. Sorry, maybe the 1000 on the SAT was just used to make a point, but the fact is that all private schools lose kids every year due to academics. Pujo, you keep looking for reasons to lose, and you will lose. The fact is this: there is no real arguement for a split. No one can come up with one. People say, "they have advatages" but they can't name any real advantages. Get over it.

DII can offer aid which is why they are seperated. DI privates can not. While DII privates should play with everyone else (with a large type multiplier), they are not what we were talking about. Baylor and McCallie do let academic standards slide when it comes to athletes, but not by much. And both will kick kids out if they don't take care of business once they get there. I think if you were to ask both schools they would tell you that they are looking for kids to do more than 8 to 3. Good athletes and good tuba players alike may get a nod over a kid who just sits around and studies.

Queen, I'd be proud if I were you also. My question is where did you gather that you had to wish that we all would be concerened for all the children? Was that aimed at someone? All I know is NO split IS what is better for ALL the kids. Outside of sports and inside real life, you should be proud to be a teacher PERIOD. Who cares if you are at a public or private school. You are making a difference in the future of all the children who walk through your door. That is admirable no matter what. Sportsguy, you are making your point with facts and real points. Split supporters don't trust facts and points. They trust their pal who got beat by a private school ten years ago and decided that they all cheat. Then they dream up silly subjective ideas to support the idea that the world is out to get them by allowing them to have to beat quality competition and earn a title. non-the-less a good mark for you for actually having a real point and some real facts. [Edited by panfan on 7/1/02 12:35A]

PUJO, OK good try but here goes: You say we pick our students. Trust me buddy, you public schools guys have a HUGE advantage when it comes to student bodies. You guys get everyone. Every kid in the county goes to that school -- rich, poor, average, smart, not so smart, athletic, not athletic. We get only the smart, rich geeks who think they can play sports. We teach them how, and do it well. We are so limited as to who we can take that it is silly. Let me tell you a story here boy. This past year one of the best 8th graders in the city applied to my school. His grandmother had worked at the school for 30 years. The kid made good enough scores on his tests to get in. BUT, he is going elsewhere, b/c his family couldn't afford it. By the way, this kid was a yes sir, no sir type that EVERY coach would have LOVED to have, but he couldn't attend school. Try another arguement buddy. This one holds no water. Let me ask you this, how many kids do you know whose parents can spare 5 to 12 grand to send their kid to a private school. Oh yea, did I mention the kid needs to approach 1000 on the SAT (as an 8th grader) to get in?????? As far as teaching lies and all that GARBAGE: We teach our kids to go out, work hard and do the very best they can and to let winning and losing take care of itself ON THE FIELD. You guys seem to teach your kids that losing is ok, b/c you have an excuse. You seem to teach failure as ok as long as it is hard to succeed. Trust me, lies and all that is no where on the scope of what we teach. Get a clue dude. TRY AGAIN PUJO. go through your list. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT for a split. Period. Give it a whirl. You'll fail. Of course, this is probably due to teaching from when you were young from mentors who you grew up to be like.

I see your point there Indian. Good call. What I meant was an advatage that justifies a split. You know, the big excuses split backers try and use. The three I named a good public school coach could have on his own. Take Trousdale, Bructon, South Pitt and now Collinwood for example; they have all the things I listed b/c their head coach demands it. See what I meant Indian?

we've been through this man. the advantages are these: smarter kids (on the whole), more disiplined environment, better work ethics, fans who would rather figure out a way to win than cry about it and try to find an excuse to lose. go ahead pujo, name an example of an advantage. we've been through this. Even ELA has had to admit that the real reason people want a split is that they just don't want to play privates. that is basically saying there really is no real argument for a split. there isn't!! except sore losers who love excuses. And, yep, private schools do work harder. except over the public schools that win. Take collinwood. I bet those guys have been in the weight room everyday, and they'll win some games from it. You know the reason work ethic is seen as funny by some people? It is b/c they are lazy.

Vote??? come on ELA, give me a break. Just because something is popular doesn't make it right. If you gave a vote to the schools, sure all the public schools would vote out privates. Then, of course, they'd be surprised to find themselves still losing to all the good public programs. If you put it up to a vote, you could vote in a complete ban on publics playing privates all together. I think you know that. Is that what you want? What is your real goal here ELA? Is it to do what is right? Is it to screw over the privates you seem to hate so much? Are you motivated for what is best for you, your team, football in general? What is you motive here? What is your real goal? To win? Kicking out privates won't do that automatically. Is your goal to make things as easy for public schools as possible? What does that teach the kids? Your whole argument has been reduced to a popularity contest. Come on, isn't it time to realize all this split talk is garbage discused by people who are only out for themselves and could care less about football, the kids, or anything other than themselves. [Edited by panfan on 6/1/02 3:41P]

Simpsons: pick one

Was wunderlich the McCallie heavy that lost to Bubba Miller of BA, or is that off a generation?

Keppy Baucum of McCallie. He is a senior this year though.

oh yea, you'd have to think Baylor is now the favorite for DII boys. Especially since they won without one of their better runners. Of course, there may be other schools holding out kids to, b/c it is early yet. But, the early odds on favorite has got to be Baylor.

Yes, If you could do that, I would appreciate it. THANKS!!!

Anyone know where I could find results for the mid south track meet at McCallie? The McCallie web site still has last year's results up. Any help would be great. THANKS [Edited by panfan on 4/7/02 1:30P]