gobigred

Exactly Bighurt. Hope no one freaks out and blames WesVols for this. There is no way he would post this kind of baloney. Whoever did this to him is a real loser.

Wizard, Good post. I wish more folks could see and admit the truth about the condition of the public education system. Dandy, I agree with you the rural public schools will not suffer much of a talent exodus, at least for the next several years. I do think, however, that public schools in cities that have successful independent schools around them will suffer even more losses of outstanding students that excel in both academics and athletics. As a suporter and defender of public schools in general, are you concerned about this possibility? Are you only interested in the affect on rural schools?

Supersteve, The vast majority of coaches on both sides of the split issue have been around football as players and coaches for a long time. The integrity of the game is important to them. Even though emotions can run high over an issue like this, I am confident that they will maintain a high level of professionalism and good sportsmanship on the football field. It shouldn't be a problem.

Good luck to you ELA, I hope you find a new position soon.

You are exactly right. Good players will usually migrate to good programs whenever possible. As more magnet schools are formed, and as more school public systems decide to allow open zoning the problem will only increase. [Edited by gobigred on 11-11-02 12:40A]

Rhino, You were going to check with some of your friends on McCallie's team to see who was behind the act of poor sportsmanship we discussed on another thread. What did you find out? [Edited by gobigred on 11-11-02 12:22A]

Pretty good summary. Turnovers may determine the outcome. It should be a great game.

Great post ELA. Parents are seldom able to have a realistic view of the talent level of their own. The coach has to make those judgements for the benefit of the team without allowing emotions to cloud their judgement. Consequently, it seems that someone is always going to be unhappy. Your final point to coaches and fans about the purpose of high school athletics is profound, but often forgotten. You could not have said it better! It is indeed all about the student athletes.

I don't know how you do it WesVols, but good job with your report on our game. It is right on the money. Were you there? Thanks for all of the effort you put into your predictions and game reports every week.

AMEN! Well said.

Dandy, I stand by my reasonable, logical, and thorough answers to your questions. Whether you agree or disagree with me is unimportant. I find it humerous however, that you could possibly confuse me with a Democrat! Nothing could be further from the truth. I find it even funnier that you believe you can read my mind!! If you will, please notice I have not made a personal attack on you or anyone else on these issues. Consider the fact that the hostile personal attack on me in your last post validates most of the points I have been making all along about the attitude of many public education system defenders. BTW, thanks for the advice on where to voice my opinions, but if its OK with you I will do so where ever I choose. If my posts upset you then by all means ignore them. I am finished with this discussion. Have a nice day!! [Edited by gobigred on 11-8-02 6:00P]

I want to thank you for providing this board as a forum for discussion of the various aspects of this issue. You have gone beyond the call of duty in allowing everyone to voice their convictions and in most cases argue with each other without interference. I'm sure it was hard at times! These issues are but a small part of a much larger debate that all of us feel strongly about. Thanks again for your integrity.

Here are your answers Dandy! 1. I have not been punished in any way. If you will reread my post carefully you will find that the word "punish" is used in a sentence that includes the parenthetical phrase (in their minds) which refers to those that chose to vote all independent schools ito Division II and to exclude home schoolers from interscholastic sports. 2. Not just sports my friend. The public education establishment (read NEA/TEA and their membership) consistently seeks to separate themselves from any individual or entity that supports an alternative to the status quo IMO. On the national level, the cash machine that is NEA lobby spends millions of dollars to try to ensure that legitimate alternatives to the current failing system never get any government support or funding. 3. I do not personally feel excluded. The decision to send my children to an independent school was based strictly on the fact that I believe in doing so I was providing for them the best education available. Hopefully that education will equip them to maximize their potential as adults. The success or lack thereof of the athletics programs at the independent schools we initially considered was a non-factor in our decision making process. 4. See #1 above. 5. Yes you are incorrect in your assumptions. I am not angry at all, I am sad. I realize that the vast majority of our citizens have no options outside of the public school system. As a citizen, a taxpayer, and an employer I am very concerned about the diminishing quality of the education received by the general public in America and especially in Tennessee. The future of of our state and our nation depends on our citizens being able to compete in a worldwide marketplace. Unfortunately, we continue to fall further behind other industralized countries like Japan in terms of the comparitive proficiency of our public high school graduates. I could go on, but the bottom line is that the American public education system must admit its problems, start holding educators and students accountable for their performance, and quit making excuses for mediocre results. Hope this helps. [Edited by gobigred on 11-8-02 2:57P]

Stan, Misconceptions? You have your opinions and I have mine. Isn't it great that we live in a country that allows both of us to share our views? Have a nice day!

Coach Terry Anderson at Nashville Overton He has done a great job of rebuilding a program that has struggled badly since the early 80's. Good job Terry!

You are right on the money on this one. I spent several hours on this board today debating numerous members of the public school establishment about the logic of a split in athletics and their refusal to allow home schoolers the opportunity to play interscholastic sports. It became incresingly clear that many public school teachers and coaches in Tennessee have been stunk into the philosophical vortex of accepting mediocrity in all phases of their education system. Because they control the largest voting block by far in the TSSAA membership, they have finally found a way to (in their minds) punish those who have chosen alternatives to public education by excluding them. This mentality is not surprising if you have been monitoring the ongoing efforts of the NEA and its members across the country to crush any proposal that allows tax dollars to fund education alternatives that are beyond their span of control. Sadly this "our way or the highway" arrogance is more pervasive than ever before in the ranks of the public school establishment. It will further decrease the possibility of mutually beneficial cooperation between the traditional public education system and private and home school alternatives. Unfortunately, it appears that the TN public school establishmrnt, under the leadership of the NEA / TEA, will continue the trend of resisting meaningful accountability standards and goals for its teachers, coaches, and students by eliminating outside competition and discrediting standardized testing that could expose weaknesses in the system. This is disappointing considering the fact that Tennessee's public system already ranks so low on the national totem pole. It may well get worse. [Edited by gobigred on 11-8-02 12:55A]

Gentlemen / Laides. I would love to continue this, but the MOD has declared this discussion closed and I will honor his declaration. We will have to agree to disagree. Have a nice day! [Edited by gobigred on 11-7-02 5:34P]

One last dig at the private schools eh ELA? I truly hope the best team wins regardless of their public / private status. Its about the kids. I'm done.

I hope the Board of Control follows through and sets a date for the split. It is obvious that there are too many fundamental differences the way the public school establishment and the majority of independent schools view the role of high school athletics in the lives of their studens. If that happens, I also hope independents will move quickly to form a new association that develops its policies on what is best for their athletes instead of their coaches. We have been wasting our money for dues and playoff gates too long on an association whose members want us gone.

jjwsiv, The fact that the public school establishment has decided (through their TSSAA monopoly) to deny home schooled children the opportunity to play interscholastic sports is well documented. You still did not answer my questions however. 1. Do you really think that is completely fair? 2. Why does it have to be all or nothing? In other words, why can't the regulations be changed to let home schoolers that can verify their academic competence play on the athletic teams of the school they are zoned for and pay taxes to support?

Pioneer, Did I strike a nerve? If you support allowing home schoolers to play if their academic success can be verified than you agree with me after all. Yes, I have read and listened to many arguments about standardized testing, but until someone develops a better way to verify proficiency that is accepted we are forced to use them. Yes I stated in another post that there would be some that choose to find a way to manipulate and/or abuse the system for athletic gain. Why is that one of the defining points of your argument if winning is not your priority? Aren't there many opportunities for those that are inclined to cheat to do so in the current environment? Does that mean we penalize the majority of home schoolers that are well taught and well behaved? In spite of your protestations Pioneer, these points are central to the discussion.

What is wrong here is HOW the TSSAA classifies schools based on school population alone. I have favored a multiplier effect, but my fellow public school coaches don't want to see that type of solution. You are right on the money ELA. Your fellow public coaches (rural schools to comprehensive giants) want independent schools out of the equation period. Why did this whole thing start in the first place between that big recruiting public in M'boro and BA if not to reduce competition?

Wardog, It is the end of the debate for you because you mind is made up, and you will not consider altering the status quo. So be it. We will agree to disagree.

Yellowdog, No one is suggesting that the program would not be structured and have monitoring systems in place. Insurance could be paid by the home schooler if the insurance at the school where they played did not. Instrumental music can be taught at home. Cheerleading and dance training can be taught at home or by private lesson. How can you participate in a competitive team sport like football at the 15-18 year old level without a school team? BTW, what is you point about Memphis?

YES They are completely focused on removing independent schools as their competition.