Brickhousechick

cbq: If Masterblasters figures are correct Coach Logsdon coached his team to two Duals titles in four years before the split. He started in 1992 or 1993 if my facts are straight. Bradley won two, Mcallie won two and Overton and Father Ryan one apiece.Lets see thats 33 per cent and tied with McCallie the dominant team of that era. Not bad huh cbq? Some will never accept the accomplishments that Bradlley has attained over the years. Too successful for those who dislike Bradley to handle. Baylor has had quite a string the last several years. No one downplays the accomplishments of Coach Morgan and the great teams they have had.Both programs are solid as are McCallie, Soddy etc.These, as the Blaster says are the facts, just the facts. Whether everyone wants to read them as they are, and give credit to either program is really irrelevant. All these teams accomplishments are in the history books and no matter what or why anyone wishes them to read differently will not change a thing.

While were at it pose the same question in a different way. Would Baylor have won the same amount they have in the last several years since the split? Doubtful with what has been basically a two to three team challenge every year. Throw Bradley and Soddy in to the D2 mix especially the 2001 and 2003 bears and things might not have been what is now history. Both of the divisions have powerful and respected programs. You cant diminish ones accomplishments without doing the same to the other when it comes to what may have occured without the split. Lets recognize the positives of both divisions and there are many in both.

Nice post. Its good to see someone appreciate what he brings to the Bradley program. The other issues were bound to be brought up despite how old, tired and insignificant that they are. Thank you for taking a positive stance. Glad your program didnt talk with him first. If he would have known about the doublewide he may have accepted! (LOL)

That ol allsaints, he do give sum of us publikly educaded posters sumpin to chew on I rekon. Right made hisself a few good argaments. Im a thinkin I mite likem mysef thar Biu Bar. But ooooooh he gonna rite agravate sum a dem dar d2ers.

If you want to have light shed on this subject go back on coacht from about the year 1999 and read the one thousand two hundred and twenty seven threads that are titled as or similar to:WHY WONT BRADLEY WRESTLE McCALLIE OR BAYLOR?When your finished with the eighty six thousand nine hundred and forty nine posts that seem drearily familiar to one another, you may understand ,but Im sure ,as many on here do, you will continue to disagree. That is why this never ends. People cannot stand to see something continue they disagree with or dislike. They disagree with Bradley's stance(which you have that right) and they dislike their continued success. Sometime next wrestling season when you are through someone will post this same thing again. Then once again we can all relive this "Groundhog Day" experience.

They must have lacked guts at the Virginia Duals when facing teams that were better than any team in Tennessee had to offer. Did the other Tennessee teams go? Must not have had guts. Its an old argument that isn't going to go anywhere people. It has nothing to do with the Bradley wrestlers being afraid of any big bad area school around here. These programs are all great and fear and guts have nothing to do with this. I think most understand(even though MANY disagree) what the principle behind this is. Everyone has a right to their feelings about Bradley's philosophy on this. Coach Logsdon afaid to lay it on the line? PULEESE! This is a subject that has been overly discussed,tiringly argued, had the most repetitve posting(including what I just posted), and ridiculous accusations of any in the history of coach t.

Thank you for starting this. Maybe it will be the end of the most insignificant, overly discussed, repetitvely argued and completely monotnous thread in the history of coacht.

Logsdon has 6 Duals titles to go along with the tradional ones that Sommers pointed out.

Gilbert is a great one all right. You are right about this area being fortunate to have many quality coaches.

His achievements have already established him in a class by himself.

I dont speak for those who make the decision but I dont think you will see what you want to see soon wvol. I agree also with the comment that Soddy will be EXTREMELY tough by years end.

This thread really got away from complimenting great coaches. We have a lot in this area that deserve mention. Anyone have any more to add to those already brought up?

Hoover will be there.They have 4 or 5 very strong guys and a lot of balance over all. I think they will contend for the title.

This topic has been explained as best as can be explained wvol. You dont agree with Coach Logsdon or Bradleys stand. He stood by his principals. His championship success is unprecedented in any sport in our states history. Regardless of how people feel about his views he will go down as one of the greatest in Tennesse Wrestling ever. His 13 state championships in 12 years will guarntee that. I dont know what else I can add. By the way I remind you that I was complimentary and in agreement with the other coaches mentioned which is what this thread started out to be. I did not try and find reasons not to agree with some. I disagree with you that there is ANY explanation or principal or line of reasoning that would end this tiresome bi-weekly discussion. I appreciate the discussion we have had to this point but I really dont know what else to add beyond giving personal details of certain things that have driven this stance. That is not my place to do. Again the thread started as a shout out to all who have been great in this state. I agreed with those mentioned, threw in the name who was in command of the benchmark program and a few just cant quite get rid of the sour taste of years of Bradley excellence that Logsdon helped to accomplish. In closing, if it makes any difference I also feel Baylor is the best team in the state this year even though they dont wrestle Bradley. But, check with me again on that question next year.

Your right he probably doesent give a lick. My son might enjoy it but he would also enjoy a newer car and a million bucks but he does not have it and is not consumed by it as the current experiences are many and fulfilling. I did not live the personal experiences that Coach Logsdon did. Had I, I could answer your question about whether I would have or not. Humpty Dumpty that you referred to earlier broke for ethics reasons and someone took a stand. I may have done the same had I been faced with it but can not tell you for sure. But I do know that I respect Coach Morgan and Coach Connell despite them having some of the advantages that others dont. I would not allow that to tarnish their accomplishments one bit in my mind.

I can GUARANTEE you that Logsdon was a Great teacher of life as well as wrestling. He talked to his wrestlers regularly about being citizens on and off the mat and lived what he preached. He does not drink, smoke, is a model husband and father(which is why he is not coaching today). In other words all the Coachspeak that all coaches say he actually abides by. He lives what most of us talk about to our kids. He has had a tremendous impact on his wrestlers lives. His wrestlers have many memories. They visit him and call him on a regular, almost weekly basis. Guys like Keller and Blackmon still consult him very often. He has more respect than almost any one I know with kids. He is a guy who lives his life as mentioned and lives by his principals regardless of opinion. I do understand that many disagree with the principle he stood by. But he took what he believed was a correct stand and had the guts to stand by his belief. His wrestlers got more than most get from a coach as far as what I have seen and I have heard none of them lament their experience. No wrestler from Bradley has ever mentioned to my knowledge that "Man, Im glad I wrestled but gee, I'll always regret I didnt wrestle McCallie or Baylor." It just wasnt as important to Bradley fans or wrestlers as it was to the rest of you all this time. They knew what kind of a Coach and person they had leading them, and they were extremely thankful that guy was Steve Logsdon. Its others who were not involved in the program and could not see what those inside saw who complained. He touched many lives, lives his life with high morals and many kids look at him as a role model and consult him often. He turned many average wrestlers and average teams into state champions. He just didnt wrestle D2.

Looks like a good one. Looking forward to the results.

I should have said Ryan but I was thinking more of the logic than who. While you may be correct that Garvin sought out tough matches Im sure there were those that were missed, Im not bent out of shape wvol its just OLD. Its brought up every week or so and the comment was phrased such as to diminish logsdons accomplishments. Do you wvol feel he should be ranked with the coaches named? I mean he chose not to wrestle the private schools. Does that lower his accomplishments or status. Thats my point. Lumping the schools was not the point. The point is obvious. We hold 2 state tournaments with kids from 2 divisions that on any given night could possibly come out on top. But we crown two rather than one. They both deserve it. The reasons for the original split basically is at the foot of D2. Yet they seem to be the ones that dont want to give D1 credit. I tried to praise everyone mentioned. I did not take a shot at anyone yet people just cant get by the fact that Bradley has been the benchmark as you put it. And yes Coach Logsdon and Bradley have done a whole lot right. Coach Morgan and the D2 coaches have done equally as well. By the way, Bradley sought out plenty of talent over the years. They took the 2001 through 2004 teams to the Virgina Duals and faced teams who at the time were ranked nationally and fared quite well I might add. Just because they didnt seek Baylor, Ryan or McCallie specifically is no factor. They took on some teams in a few of those years that were better than any team in Tennessee. I agree with you that the tournament would be tougher if it were not split but it is. As mentioned earlier at least it isnt diluted by even more divisions as are a great many states. The kids who win in either one are quality wrestlers as are the teams that win. So why cant we just give them both credit where credit is due from the wrestlers to all the great coaches instead of trying to think up a reason why someone isnt worthy of the praise with some cliche like"you got to wrestle the best to be the best" In reality that almost never happens even when you seek to achieve it.

I was making a point. Logic would still hold then that Baylor didnt wrestle the D1 Champs or vice versa. Since 1999 they didnt "wrestle the best to be the best "if you want to buy that argument. I DONT buy that argument. Baylor Deserves to claim to be state champs those years the SAME as the D1 champs do. It doesent matter who happened to win that particular year. I was referring to Indiviual Multiple winners as well. Keller and Simpson were involved in 8 SPLIT individual state titles. Are they truly not state champs? They are both down in history as 4 timers who WERE the best of the best but this argument tarnishes their accomplishments as well if you buy in to it.

Old, tired and untrue argument. How many times in the last several years has Baylor and McCallie had multiple state champs in their 6 team tournament individually. Does that mean they arent the best? Marable Manly, Phillip Simpson etc etc. They didnt wrestle D1 Indiviuals. That DOES NOT diminish their accomplishments because they very well may have defeated the D1 s in thier weight class. SO with your logic, they werent truly state champs were they? Get over it Bradley won 13 Division 1 state championships over 12 years and against well over 100 public teams. Baylor and McCallie have won AND DESERVE CREDIT FOR winning multiple D2 team titles the last several years. If your logic follows then they DONT deserve those because they didnt beat Bradley,or Franklin or Soddy in the process. There are 2 Divisions in this state. The team and Individual State titles have gone to TWO people and TWO teams. So neither of them the past several years have had to "wrestle the best to be the best" have they? They really dont deserve to be hanging those plaques in the Halls of Baylor, McCallie and Bradley and Franklin and Soddy do they? They didnt wrestle ALL the good teams in the State that night they won did they. If you follow your line of thinking than those dont mean anything. Last years D1 and D2 state individuals arnt really true state champs because they didnt wrestle ALL the best wrestlers in their weights. So they "didnt wrestle the best to be the best" The only way to prove it in any given year is if all wrestlers and all teams wrestle everyone. But thats not reality. There are 6 divisions in Alabama. Seth Garvin didnt wrestle those in 5A and below so even though he was ranked in the top 5 at 152 in the country his senior year he cant claim to be the best in his state? I mentioned in my original posts that all these coaches are great. Dont try an diminish one of thems accomplishments with an argument that doesent hold water. Other wise no one since the split could truly say they are champs now could they? Like I said OlD TIRED and UNTRUE

All the Coaches mentioned are great and have done tremendous things for their programs and kids who went through them. Coach Logsdon is now retired but accomplishment wise hes hard to top. A combined 13 state team titles (traditional and dual) in a 12 year span! Its really hard to say though as Connel, Morgan, Logsdon, Miller, T. Jackson, Simpson, S. Turner, Henry etc. have all had enormous impact on Tennessee Wrestling and the personal development of hundreds of kids. You could make a solid case for ANY one of them.

Bradley actually did lead after day one. Their pins were accidently left out of the first day total. They were up by 7. Bradley had 255 and Scotsboro had 205 for the final totals according to the Huntsville newspaper. Eight finalists and six champions.

Soddy might pull this one off.

Gov, You are right.

All these people who think a team is running from someone just because they dont wrestle some other team need to realize that most of these coaches have one goal in mind. To have there team as strong as they can by the end of the year.They also know whats best for thier program. Coach Mullins is a proven commodity that knows what he is doing and knows how to prepare his team and included in that is scheduling. Those who criticise dont know what his team needs like he does. His wrestlers have not shown a fear of any other teams in the past that I know of. They go hard no matter who they face. Lets give Notre Dame a break on this. They still will see a great deal of tough competion in their D1 schedule.