wristbar

Just curious. What DII or NAIA schools have lost to club teams? I hope you are wrong about this.

Grissoms coach knows what he is doing. He always has a bunch of guys that go out and wrestle hard and bang, and they are one of the most successful teams in Alabama. However, Grissoms coach has a "different" personality and it sound like it may be trickling down to his wrestlers. Then again I wasnt anywhere near that gymnasium. Im just familiar with Grissoms program. With that said, I dont fault any coach that doesnt require his wrestlers to shake the coaches hand after each individual match. You are required to shake hands after the dual match. That is plenty. Most colleges do not shake hands with the opposing coaches after each individual match in duals or tournaments.

I tried to avoid it but here goes. I did that list based solely on achievement. NCAA DI Champion--NCAA DI Finalist--Mult. time "lower" div. Champ---Mult. time DI AA--DI AA- Mult. time DII AA etc. Nobody on this board would be fool enough to say that DII/NAIA/DII wrestling as a whole is better than DI. However, I based what I posted on a simple formula. It is more outstanding to be a three time national champion, regardless of division, than a DI All American. If TN had a 4 time or 3 time DI AA (non-finalist), I would probably put them ahead of the two in question. But, we dont as a state have that...just yet. /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> The "lower" divisions have proven to be competitive on the individual stage. Historically, guys like Hasslerig, Schalles, Simons, Azevedo etc. have done very well competing against DI. In the last years, Dlagniev(sp.) from Nebraska was a beast. One year out of being only a 2 time DII champ has just beaten Mocco in the NYAC tournament. Does this mean he would have been a DI AA? Who knows? The Omaha 149 lber., his name escapes me, walked through a tough University Freestyle field a few years ago. Does this mean he would have been a DI AA? A TN product, Dunning, beat the DI 4th place finisher from last year by a major in Vegas. Does this mean he would have been a DI AA? It's not a matter of who could beat who. Because that cannot be determined without a time machine. It is a matter of who has accomplished more. Gold medals mean something. An AA certificate is important. But, it does sound a heck of a lot better to put National Champion in front of that name.

You obviously dont understand the sport of wrestling.

You make a good point. However, put yourself in the shoes of a DII competitor back then. You are training and attempting to peak for DII's. If you time it right, youre not going to be at your best a week/two weeks later. Another factor back then to look at is tournament format. If I am not mistaken, the NCAA tournament was set up as a single elimination carry tournament that only placed 6 All Americans. An example if you really want to look at comparing the two, Cody Cleveland a DI AA would not have been carried to have the chance to AA. Id like to note, due to some of the tight sphincters out there, that I am merely making a point. The DI wrestlers of today are incredible, but a lot of the super successful lower classification wrestlers of yesteryear get overlooked.

1. Bill Harlow 2. Jordan Leen 3. Philip Simpson 4. Waylon Lowe 5. Randy Batten 6. Matt Keller 7. Nick Marable 8. Cody Cleveland 9. Raymond Dunning 10. Heath Eslinger The first 3 enough said. All were at least DI national finalists in their careers. Lowe is 4 because the guy was a 3 time champion and OW. Regardless of Division, this is a tremendous feat. Randy Batten was also a 3 time champion. Not sure if he was an OW so the nod goes to Lowe. Keller was a two time DI AA. Marable and Cleveland are both single time DI AA's at this point so they fall in at 7 & 8. Dunning is a two time DII AA with some significant DI wins. Eslinger, if I am not mistaken, is the career leader in wins at UTC. With all the great TN wrestlers that have been at UTC this is noteworthy enough to merit the 10 spot. I am not sure where he was from but I know Turner Jackson was a mult DII champion. Is he a native Tennessean?

I personally would put Waylon Lowe up at about number 3 on my list. OW at DII's. Did not have a great record against DI comp but very impressive at DIIS

I must say this seems like an odd coupling. Pee party followed by some pancakes. I hope for sanitations sake that they are to be held in non adjoining rooms.

I can remember a time when TN schools no matter how tough would always be either 9 or 10 or honorable mention. There were Baylor, Bradley, and Father Ryan teams that could have easily been ranked in the past. I think that the change is a direct result of the individuals that we have put out in the past 8 yrs or so. This is good.

Thought Tn Temple was adding an actual competetive team. Any info. Was thinkin they were gonna be a DIII or NAIA? Also was under the impression that Borneman went back to Cumberland. He was showing a lot of promise up there for a while.

An average in this situation doesnt mean anything. There are plenty of young wrestlers out there whocan afford to lose 20-30 lbs. to get to their ideal weights. And there are also plenty of wrestlers who dont need to lose any weight. I hate when this subject is brought up for two reasons. The first is that our sport has been stigmatized as an unhealthy, barbaric activity. Our kids now have to urinate in a cup and then have a doctor or trainer play in it to determine the specific gravity. I dont know about the rest of you but I think its pretty sick that wrestling is now associated with a urine test before activity begins. It is true that the body fat and specific gravity tests were brought about because of deaths associated with wrestling, but there is always going to be weight cutting in our sport. Talk to the old guys that wrestled in high school/college in the seventies and eighties and ask them about weight cutting. The second thing about this that upsets me is that all we keep hearing in America is that obesity is the "big" problem (pardon the pun). Why does our sport get criticized for getting kids to maintain healthy weights when you have football coaches down the hall from the wrestling room telling some kids that they need to put on weight. Professional linemen in the NFL are retiring and then having to deal with problems like sleep apnea and other disorders associated with being overweight. But cutting weight in wrestling is unsafe?

Individual: 1. McCallie 2. Father Ryan 3. Bradley 4. Brentwood All other tournaments are behind these four, with the top two setting themselves far apart from any in the state.

How are these Seamen's related to Bill? Seaman who wrestled for Mt. Juliet a few years back? If they are anywhere near the athlete that he was they will be tough with some coaching. Another question: Does this region represent the smallest number of state placers from last year?

2005 Take it for what it is worth but here is the comparison. In my opinion, the fact that it is folkstyle makes NHSCA a better barometer for college success. There is no doubt in my mind that both tournaments are very competetive. I just believe that Seniors is tougher on the average year. CBG I dont know when the last time was that you attended these events but I am almost certain that there are more coaches at the NHSCA event now with the addition of the juniors and sophomores. Just an example of what can happen at Seniors this is the 119 from 2001: 1. Joseph Dubuque (New Jersey) 3xAA, 2xNC 2. Ricky LaForge (New Jersey) 3. Nick Simmons (Michigan) 4xAA 4. Nate Gallick (Arizona) 3xAA, NC, 2X FINALIST 5. Travis Lee (Hawaii) 4xAA, 2xNC 6. Shawn Bunch (Kansas) 2xAA, FINALIST, US OPEN CHAMP 7. Jacob Palomino (California) 8. Drew Opfer (Ohio Fargo Junior FS 98 lbs. 1st - Boris Novachkov (CA) dec. Jake Quinten (PA). 9-7 3rd - Nico Cortese (PA) tech. fall Tommy Bennett (FL), 10-0 5th - Justin Forrest (MO) tech. fall Clark Morgan (CA), 14-4 7th - Bryan Rickard (MI) dec. Nick Outumuro (CA), 13-6 105 lbs. 1st - Mark Kist (IA) dec. Donte Butler (MO), 7-1 3rd - Marty Eng (OR) dec. Vito Krischke (MO), 8-2 5th - Dalton Jensen (IA) pin Marco Estrada (CA), 2:59 7th - Dan Kelly (NJ) inj dft. Connor McDonald (DE)` 112 lbs. 1st - Tony Mustari (CO) tech. fall Aaron Hart (OH), 10-0 3rd - Zachary Sanders (MN) dec. Matthew Kyler (PA), 8-6 5th - Nick Shumate (KS) tech. fall Donny Altman (KS), 10-0 7th - Patrick Feeley (RI) pin Matt McNaughton (IL), 2:52 119 lbs. 1st - Franklin Gomez (PR) dec. Ross Gitomer (NJ), 8-0 3rd - Ben Ashmore (TX) dec. Brad Pataky (PA), 9-6 5th - Mike Thorn (MN) dec. Rollie Peterkin (MA), 11-6 7th - Jimmy Kennedy (IL) inj dft. Montell Marion (IA) 125 lbs. 1st - Mike Grey (NJ) dec. Shawn Jones (ID), 15-7 3rd - Daniel Mitcheff (OH) dec. Sean Clair (PA), 6-2 5th - Steven Mytych (PA) dec. Brian Shelton (OK), 4-2 7th - Conor Beebe (IL) dec. Kyle Hutter (IL), 8-2 130 lbs. 1st - Adam Frey (PA) dec. Jordan Frishkorn (VA), 6-4 3rd - Jayson Ness (MN) won by tech fall over Kyle Anson (IA), 14-4 5th - Joey Slaton (IA) tech. fall Chris Diehl (MI), 10-0 7th - Brandon Precin (IL) dec. Ryan Moyer (MO), 10-5 135 lbs. 1st - Mitch Mueller (IA) dec. Reece Humphrey (IN), 6-0 3rd - Cesar Grajales (FL) dec. Darrion Caldwell (NJ), 10-1 5th - Matt Vacanti (NE) tech. fall Cam Watkins (MD), 13-2 7th - Max Shanaman (NJ) tech. fall Willie Saxton (OH), 14-4 140 lbs. 1st - Cyler Sanderson (UT) dec. Adam Hall (ID), 7-5 3rd - Lance Palmer (OH) dec. Ryan Adams (MN), 4-0 5th - Travis Blasco (NJ) dec. J.P. O’Connor (NY), 8-7 7th - Kaylen Baxter (AK) dec. Clark Buffington (AK), 7-1 145 lbs. 1st - Brent Metcalf (MI) pin Matt Dragon (PA), 4:59 3rd - Joseph Cornejo (KS) dec. Sean Reynolds (IL), 3-2, ot 5th - Jason Welch (CA) dec. Sean Nemec (OH), 10-2 7th - Wesley English (IN) dec. Matt Ballweg (IA), 3-1, ot 152 lbs. 1st - Ryan Morningstar (IA) dec. Shane Vernon (OK), 6-0 3rd - Jon Reader (MI) tech. fall Kurt Kinser (IN), 10-0 5th - Jake Kerr (IA) pin Dave Bjorkstrand (MN), 1:41 7th - Colt Sponseller (OH) dec. Joey Knox (GA), 2:38 160 lbs. 1st - Rocky Cozart (FL) dec. Ryan Patrovich (NY), 3-0 3rd - David Rella (OH) inj dft. over Travis Hammons (IL) 5th - Kyle Bounds (WA) tech. fall Ben Fiacco (GA), 10-0 7th - Neil Erisman (KS) dec. Landis Wright (PA), 10-0 171 lbs. 1st - David Craig (FL) dec. Michael Moore (MO), 4-2 3rd - Brent Chriswell (WA) tech. fall Jeff James (OK), 12-2 5th - Clayton Foster (ID) dec. Duke Burk (IL), 5-3 7th - Mike Miller (OH) dec. Michael Cuthbertson (AL), 7-3 189 lbs. 1st - Louis Caputo (MO) dec. Taylor Moore (MO), 4-0 3rd - Max Askren (WI) tech. fall Sonny Yohn (CO), 11-0 5th - Hudson Taylor (NJ) dec. Trevor Perry (MI), 12-4 7th - Romeo Djoumessi (IA) dec. Austin Boehm (ID), 5-3 215 lbs. 1st - Robby Smith (CA) dec. Daniel Erekson (ID), 10-9, ot, 7:09 3rd - Cody Gardner (VA) dec. Tyler Hemmesch (MN), 8-2 5th - Brent Eidenschink (MN) by inj. Default over Brent Jones (VA) 7th - Nate Sipes (PA) pin Joe Nord (MN), 2:11 275 lbs. 1st - Erik Nye (CA) dec. Jared Rosholt (OK), 3-2, ot, 9:00 3rd - Drake McCoy (GA) dec. Kenny Lester (FL), 9-2 5th - Bill Lundblad (MN) pin Andrew Blume (CA), 2:53 7th - Nathan Fernandez (OK) pin Peter Reid (NJ), 2:25 NHSCA Seniors 103 1. Matthew McNaughton (Illinios) 2. Daniel Early (Ohio) 3. Peppy Cabrera (New York) 4. Danny Morreale (New York) 5. Gabe Rodriguez (California) 6. Beau Lem (Ohio) 7. Drew Hammen (Wisconsin) 8. Dan O’Neill (Minnesota) 112 1. Brian Moreno (California) 2. Josh Statum (Alabama) 3. Kyle Ruschell (Kentucky) 4. Joshua Williams (Michigan) 5. Dan Bishop (New York) 6. Dan Diaz (New Jersey) 7. Shaun Farnham (New York) 8. Tyler Baker (Oregon) 119 1. Franklin Gomez (Florida) 2. Ross Gitomer (New Jersey) 3. Michael Watts (Utah) 4. Whit Dunning (Tennessee) 5. Brandon Zoeteway (California) 6. Rollie Peterkin (New Jersey) 7. Thomas Magnani (New York) 8. John Olanowski (Virginia) 125 1. Troy Nickerson (New York) 2. Jason Ness (Minnesota) 3. Mark Anderson (California) 4. Sean Clair (Pennsylvania) 5. Steve Mytych (Pennsylvania) 6. Kyle Anson (Iowa) 7. Ryan Moyer (Missouri) 8. John Triggas (California) 130 1. Adam Frey (New Jersey) 2. Joey Slaton (Iowa) 3. Josh Baldridge (Kansas) 4. Jordan Lipp (Ohio) 5. Daniel Dennis (Illinois) 6. Braxdon Scaletta (Ohio) 7. Nate Nauroth (Pennsylvania) 8. Ryan Adams (Minnesota) 135 1. Brandon Rader (West Virginia) 2. Charlie Ettelson (Iowa) 3. Brandon Shelton (Oklahoma) 4. Steve Brown (New York) 5. Cesar Grajales (Florida) 6. Trevor Bowers (Lake Catholic) 7. Joe Soto (California) 8. Brett Robbins (Illinois) 140 1. Cyler Sanderson (Utah) 2. Clay Tucker (Ohio) 3. Dan Vallimont (New Jersey) 4. Mitch Smith (West Virginia) 5. David Christian (California) 6. Daniel Ruettiger (Illinois) 7. Brian Sanguinet (Missouri) 8. Derrick Smith (New York) 145 1. Dustin Schlatter (Ohio) 2. Brent Metcalf (Michigan) 3. Gregor Gillespie (New York) 4. Joseph Cornejo (Kansas) 5. Chase Pami (Nevada) 6. Tyler Grayson (Missouri) 7. Tom Fazio (New Jersey) 8. Lewis Gonzalez (California) 152 1. Matt Coughlin (Indiana) 2. Ryan Morningstar (Iowa) 3. Andrew Flanagan (NJ) 4. Shane Vernon (Oklahoma) 5. Matt Dragon (Pennsylvania) 6. Joey Ecklof (Pennsylvania) 7. Jonathan Bonilla-Bowman (New York) 8. Chris Brown (Virginia) 160 1. Travis Hammons (Illinois) 2. Alton Lucas (New York) 3. Duke Burk (Illinois) 4. Ross Taplin (Kansas) 5. Trevor Stewart (Michigan) 6. Rocky Cozart (Florida) 7. Mike Miller (Ohio) 8. Nate Matousek (Minnesota) 171 1. Chance Litton (West Virginia) 2. Phillip Keddy (Utah) 3. Ricky Scott (New York) 4. Jay Borschel (Iowa) 5. John Barone (New York) 6. Rick Loera (Illinois) 7. Tyson Reiner (South Dakota) 8. Brian Lenhardt (Virginia) 189 1. Mike Pucillo (Ohio) 2. Jake Varner (California) 3. Max Askren (Wisconsin) 4. Jon Jones (New York) 5. Louis Caputo (Missouri) 6. Taylor Moore (Missouri) 7. Trevor Perry (Michigan) 8. Levi Wofford (Newbraska) 215 1. Deshawn Barrett (Maryland) 2. Jason Marshall (Ohio) 3. Brent Jones (Virginia) 4. Jared Rosholt (Oklahoma) 5. Jacob Marrs (Kansas) 6. Nick Palmieri (Ohio) 7. Erik Nye (California) 8. Mark Ellis (Missouri) 275 1. Drake McCoy (Georgia) 2. Brady Wilson (Minnesota) 3. Joey White (South Dakota) 4. Michael Sprigg (Kansas) 5. Dennis Landolt (New Jersey) 6. Jake Wood (Ohio) 7. Arthur Jones (New York) 8. Jesse Boggs (New Mexico)

College coaches lokk more favorably on a NHSCA senior championship than a fargo championship. Fargo is indeed a tough tournament, but seniors is where the coaches go. Kids should be recruiting the school where they want to go anyways. Not the other way around. Va beach is where to send your kids. Freestyle isnt a very practical judge for college success anymore with the four minute matches and all.

Its been going on for a while now. Its called the NHSCA senior nationals. They just added freshmen sophomores and juniors in the last few years. Its already out there. They have a meet and greet in the sponsor hotel lobby.

Dont quote me on this but if Im thinking of the right guy Michael Martin who wrestled for Illinois isnt the son of Steve Martin. About 95% sure on that. Im thinking his dad is one of the older brothers.

Not from Dickson and never been to the camp but it would seem that you would expect ALL.

"They" are dyke administrators. Mens basketball coaches arent doing anything at the colege level to kill wrestling. Title IX is a terrible injustice but it seems more and more that Title IX is being viewed, even by administrators, as an out of date misapplied policy. Dropping of wrestling programs today cannot solely be placed on Title IX. You want to blame somebody or an institution(i.e Title IX), blame the ADs and University Presidents. And elitism is not the way to go. Resentment is not a good attitude to have going against you.

As a wrestler I can see the humor in the sayings that slam basketball. However, is it really necessary to exercise this elitist attitude. Jump all over it or take it for what its worth, I just believe in the live and let live philosophy. There is always going to be a battle between wrestling and the other "big" sports, especially in the south.

It is a miserable situation that the Ryan HVY hung his head after the finals. This brings up the topic of whether or not to even keep team scores at the Individual tournament. I know that Indiana and a few other states have gone to a system eliminating the Traditional Tournament team scoring . I personally dont like it because of the tradition in TN. However, you hate to see this happen. I would wager that the Ryan HVY is over it by now and very happy with the gold medal around his neck again. As far as my ties go, I will say that I have worked with kids from both ends of the state and have actually worked with a few Baylor kids as well. I am for "good" wrestling.

You are a moron. The other tournament was a dual tournament. Other than the Collins Hill Duals I dont remember Baylor and Ryan meeting. Also, I am not blaming the TSSAA on the Baylor Ryan tie. If you would look at a topic I started a few days ago, the TSSAA is potentially trying to limit the amount of mat time that HS kids can get in the off season.

Anybody who understands wrestling understands that a good dual team and a good tournament team are not the same thing. Ryan has a stronger tournament team than Baylor does. They dont have near the dual team that Baylor does. That is a fact. Baylor would win that dual 9/10 times and I would wager that Ryan would win the individual 9/10 times witht their respective teams. As far as important topics go, how about the issue of the TSSAA doing everything within its power to screw wrestling.

Yall?????? Did I say anything about FR enjoying a tie? I dont think Baylor or FR are entirely happy with the tie. In fact, it would appear that Baylor should be happier with the tie than FR considering the way the teams lined up. Cupcake, please stop running your mouth there are too many important topics on this board for us to have to hear your crap.

I am 99% positive that this is the first tie ever. From the outside looking in it looke like FR had a lot more missed opportunities than Baylor to pull this one out. It appeared that FRwas by far the tougher tournament team. On the other hand, with the way that things panned out for FR on the first day, you gotta commend them for being able to come back and tie it up on the last match of the evening. Very cool to see that this happened. Very sad because Im sure there are wrestlers on both sides wondering if they could have maybe found a way to get a major somehwere.