CUBCADET

Really dont have an idea where you get the statement you made about the home team always gets the close ones, if there are any??? Just a few thoughts here. 1. The umpire crews working the region and substate games are coming from across the state to work at locations where they do NOT call regularly. Some travel as far as a hundred miles to work the games. So, home cooking is NOT a factor! This crew was from another entire region. No favorites with this one, I bet. Some umpires have different strikes zones that maybe the ones these pitchers were used to working with. Who knows what happened??? 2. Would your thoughts have been any different if the walk count would have been reversed? I would bet that it just might! 3> All the umpires I know do their best at all times. Some just arent as proficient at the job as others, some are more experienced, etc. We all have bad days just the players umpires, and yes even the coaches. 4. I do know one thing for sure...a fan sitting up in the bleachers or a coach over in the dugout, sure must have a whole lot better look at the pitches than the umpire standing right behind the plate!!! 5. Best of luck to both teams on Friday night and in the state tourn. 6. Let he players decide the outcome on the field and just cheer them ALL on!!! They have worked hard to get to this point!

I really hate to hear that..Coach Holt is a good coach and a real nice person. WC is down on talent this season (not to mention they had many injuries). Every team goes thru the cycle every now and then, and trust me, Warren Co. will be back with the frontrunners before you know it..I certainly do wish JW the very best in the future. I know that WC will find a top notch replacement...Maybe they can get Jimmy Walker back in the drivers seat??? Who Knows??

I know for sure that in Warren County, that only a 2 man crew is used for all games. There was 3 man crews last year or so for the district games but I guess that the economy got in the way or something..It is so much better to have that 3rd guy out there for many many reasons. The checked swings from either side, the balks, better base and outfield catch/no catch coverage, deep foul balls etc. I have noticed that most districts are using the 3 man for dist. games. It doesn't cost THAT much more for the third guy because the first 2 dont make hardly as much for the game because of the 3 man crew. It sure makes it easier for the umpires, no doubt. I would recommend that popcorn or hotdog prices go up a lttle bit to help cover the costs, if needed, and this is advice coming from a fat kid!!!!! But really it makes for a better game because when the 3 man works right, it really improves the chances on blue getting the right look. Nothing prettier than when the guys know their job and perform it well. As for the umpire mouthing off to the fan, he should really know better. No place where that is ness. A person , coach or teacher, whatever they do , cannot demand respect....they has to earn it. An umpire does it by being professional in his appearance, knowledge of the rules, hustle, and treatly everybody fairly and equally respectful. If a fan gets unruly or whatever the ump can say something to the coach or just send for security or the police. I would really hate to do that but it may be ness. Seems like the adults are usually the ones who mess things up for the kids. Dont you agree? I have to admit there may be some guys wearing the blue that may be a little out their league sometimes, but like the old saying goes,"good help is really hard to find sometimes". With all the middle schools starting programs etc, it is taking more and more umpires each night and there just not that many wanting to get out there and take the abuse that some of them have to..I often wonder why we do it..It sure aint about the money...Its about the love of the game and wanting to see it played well and fairly. For anyone wanting to get out there and show what they know...there is plenty of training available. Just contact the local assigner and get started. PLAY BALL!!!

You are right about some coaches never paying a compliment to the good umpires. Most will, though.I really have never seen an umpire make a bad call intentionally, I think. But some are just not as seasoned as others, but you have to start somewhere. Some of the less-experienced umpires get put into high pressure situations by their assigners because there is not a veteran ump to work the game for some reason or another. I really believe they try hard, but maybe they just haven't been around long enough at the higher levels to recognize the situations they are about to encounter. A lot of times, when a coach senses a rookie in blue, they try to intimidate the guy , and it just makes matters worse when the umpire gets ridden or yelled at when he is already nervous or whatever by being there in the first place. Most umpires know the level where they truly feel comfortable working at and when they get put in a higher level, they just can't relax and do the job properly, because they are afraid of the wrath of the fans and coaches if they do screw up. Nobody is perfect, even the coaches, believe it or not. How would any of the fans feel if when they are at work and everybody in the place is critiquing and screaming at every move they make, often to the point of being stupid. And we all know...YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!! I understand a coach humping for his team when he thinks he got a bad call, and as long as he speaks his mind and is courteous, he will get courteous treatment from most any umpire. The ones that go ballistic over nothing are the ones the men in blue dont care for. There are an awful lot of good coaches in this area that really know how to make their point and still not act stupid doing it. The trouble is, a lot of coaches dont really know the rules like they should, and when an umpire makes a tricky call, they just think since they dont understand what the rule or call is, they think they got screwed. Not the case usually. Being an umpire has to be one of the toughest jobs in any sport. One call I think I have seen to cause more of a fuss is the lefthanded pitchers balk/no balk. If the schools will put out a few extra dollars for the third umpire to be on the field, it would solve a ton of that problem, along with better call all over the field. A small price to pay for making sure things get called right, dont you think?

I agree with you on this one..I have yet to see an umpire miss an easy fly ball, let a groundball go through his legs, miss a coaches sign, or swing and miss an easy pitch to hit, but yet anything that goes wrong is always the umpire's fault for just being bad at the job or being a "homer". You are also correct that the stands are full of lawn chair coaches and managers that know way more about the game and the rules than the coaches on the field or the umpires calling the action. It sure does look easy from the bleachers, I'll admit. BUT, everybody needs someone to blame for their teams mistakes or whatever so why not just blame the guys in blue. Heaven forbid a coach or player do anything wrong to affect the outcome of the game.

Hey there Chief...I as well as a lot of other umpires take exception to your comment about the officials at the state tourney. I have worked in two state tourn in the past five years and was asked two other times, but couldn't go. I consider it very complimentary to be asked because the local associations who try to send their top officials if possible. Maybe you should consider this...The last year the tournament was in Memphis, I (a business owner myself) arranged my schedule so I could leave my business for a week, drove a total of 1100 miles, and worked several games in the tournament. I thoroughly enjoyed my time on the field with NO problems at all. For someone to say the umps do this for the money might just be a little out of line. I received approx 600.00 for that weeks little "vacation". But, while I was in town for the tourn, I spent 150.00 on fuel ( which was way less than $2 a gal then), 400.00 on food , had my brand new truck broken into and damaged the first night I was there, costing me $250.00 deductible, plus the lost earnings I would have made at my company working for my customers. A real money maker, don't you think? I do it because I love the game and doing the best job I can. I worked with some very good umpires the whole week and would love doing it every year, but it is just not possible for me. They all made similar sacrifices ( time and expense) and were there for the same reasons (they love the game and doing the job). My suggestion to you is to gear up and make the calls . Or stay at home and be quiet. It takes lots of money for all the schools to have the kind of programs they wish to have. The kids today do not realize how lucky they are to have the facilities and support they do. It takes money to put on the tournaments and run the programs throughout the state, whatever sport it is. Who gets what % is understood before any school decides to be a host or send a team. Their choice to do so or not. As far as paying to get in (although I do disagree with charging kids and younger anything), park etc., if you think it is too high, then plain and simple, DO NOT GO. Enough of this little rant...congratulations to all the teams that made it this year.

Hey Jody...great to hear from you buddy...Man, I heard first hand that this year was just as bad if not a little worse than last year , if that is possible..like the old saying goes..."you can dress some people up pretty nice but...you just cant take them to town!!! Maybe the fans will relax and enjoy the guys playing the grand old game one of these days...reckon? Miss you too and hope you are doing well...I miss not having someone around to get into" IT" with.(know what I mean? )Give me a call and we will go out and do something crazy sometime..

I am sure that umpiring is one of the toughest jobs there is. I was on hand last year for the tourn at MTCS and witnessed some of the most unsportsmanlike happenings you can imagine. The fans from Forrest and Cascade were almost at riot stage. What is humorous about it all, is that the umps were CORRECT about both calls that were made. The coaches didnt even realize the rules, but they were out there screaming and ranting because they thought they were getting screwed...If they (fans and coaches) could have seen or heard themselves, I am positive they would have been totally embarrassed. Really, a couple of people should have ejected but the umps didnt for some reason. They got together and made sure the call were correct and worked the rest of the game. The umps really do not care who wins, honestly. Sure, sometimes the calls dont go your way and sometimes the players dont perform they way they need to to win, but acting like idiots in the dugout or in the stands doesn't make things any better at all. The fans screamed at , threw things at the fence, and threatened the umps, telling them to watch for them in the parking lot and they would "settle the problem" among other crude and insane remarks. I found it hard to belive these things were actually happening, but they did last year. I was told by a very good source that it was much the same this year also. What is up with this crap? And this year it involved a "Christian school" and Forrest??? Is that a good example of behavior to show the young people on the field? Hope not. Lets hope and pray their kids DO NOT grow up to act like their parents. Just plain STUPID. Totally classless! I understand the emotions of tourn play but most of the crazy stuff is uncalled for. I always thought the things you see on the news about fans attacking the officials at youth and school athletic events was something that just doesnt happen around here, but after seeing the way these people acted last year and this year, who knows? Unbelievable that people who expect to be treated nice by everyone else would act like this. Sure, heckles at the umpires are what is concieved to be a part of the game for some reason, but this type of behavior is lidicrous. Some of the coaches dont act much better either. This type of behavior is a poor representation of their schools and community. Maybe if the umps would just call the police and have the obnoxious fans removed, and maybe even charged with making threats, things might be better. Like an earlier poster remarked, there are plenty of ump jobs available if any of the so called bleacher umps want to make the big bucks and take abuse for a few hours a week. Heck that would be perfect, dont you think? Umpiring is a job where you are expected to be PERFECT the first time out and then get better from then on...I bet your jobs are nowhere close to that, are they? Just a few thoughts for your consideration. Just go out and enjoy the games and let the kids have FUN!!!! PLEASE

Uh...Did anyone happen to watch the World Series last year? If you did, maybe you happened to notice the fellow from McMinnville, tenn. standing on the mound for the Detroit Tigers. He is now with the Baltimore Orioles. His name is Jamie (CAT) Walker. A great example of a kid from Middle Tenn working his fanny off to make the most of his God given talents, and being patient. Then when the time finally came, he really realized the fruits of his labor..$12.5 million over 3-4 years (not really sure if it is 3 or 4) , but still a bunch..Hard work and determination does pay off for most..Good pitcher and great family man..Very deserving...Just like a lot of kids from this area..

Man is that news!! I have but one thing to say about that...to quote an old baseball saying, "SAY IT AIN'T SO, JOE". Coach Powers always has been a tremendous coach and leader for his team. If he does leave, and I am positive it would have to be for a extremely important reason, due to the fact that he simply loves the game, I wish him the best of health and good luck in his future. YOU ARE A CLASS ACT BUDDY!! It has been a pleasure to umpire with you in the dugout...You will be MISSED!

You folks need to pay attention to what R'dale man says..I agree that MOST umps try their hardest to do the job right and fair. Sometimes, we all have a bad night. I f you guys never have a bad night at what you do , then by gosh please tell us the secret to being PERFGECT!..An ump is going to get yelled at either way ..But, I do NOT think for one instant that ANY umpire goes on the field to "help or hurt" ANY team. It probably seems that way because one of the teams seem to have all the calls going against them..Hey, you know what happens sometimes>> R'man...I am thinkng about proposing to the TSSAA that the umpires change their positions for working the games. Tell me what you think..I think the plate man should work the dish from either the right or left field line about 10-15 yards out past the dugout ( in lawn chair with a tall cool one to drink) or from the right or left side of the bleachers, way up high so he can see the corners(especially after a nice cold one or two) ..Heck, the base ump is evidently useless anyway since all he does is blow very important call and then try to make them up..He is also the sole responsible person for the defensive players that cannot seem to catch a slow roller that is hit straight to them or the moon shot over the wall because the next Tommy John left it hanging out over the plate. Maybe the plate guy should go to the dugouts before the game with a chart to show the pitchers what is and is not going to be a strike tonite!! I dont know if these are good ideas or not, but from what I have experienced and have heard from a lot of people on the T , they may not be too bad after all.. One more small thought...And quite possibly the best of all...Maybe we should get all our wives or girlfriends to umpire the games..Think about it , they are ALWAYS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING!!!!!!!( pun definitely intended) Keep up the good work blue!!!

David, you are correct, in the fact that most teams do just use their #3 or #4 in the weekend tourneys. I would love to see the spring fling, and I know this is NOT possible, get to the championship game point and then give all the teams 3 days rest. This would give the teams pitching as well as all their other minor injuries the players may have (soreness, sprains, etc.) time to heal a little bit. Then, the teams could walk on the field "for the winner take all" with all their guns fully loaded and it would be a better example of which TEAM is better overall. BUT keep in mind the old saying about..."on a given day,etc..... Once again, I said I know this is NOT possible at this level. It might make for a more exciting championship game if something like this could be done..It is a shame that the postseason has to be crammed into such a small time frame, and a lot of teams do not have enough pitching to maybe take them all the way. I guess what I am saying is something we all agree on, I think, there is NO one perfect way to do this, dont you agree, David. But I really like your plan...You got my vote. U DA MAN>>>LIMBAUGH!!!

I agree with you except for one small part...It is NOT the umpires job to keep up with innings pitched or rest.It is the coaches responsibilty wholly. Period. The other coach was correct in calling for a forfeit . I bet you if you put the situation inreverse, the guilty coach would have done the same thing..I was witness to this same situation a few years ago @ the 7aaa district finals when Riverdale called Oakland on the exact same infraction. TSSAA was contacted and made Oakland forfeit.. Boy, were people in Murfreesboro ticked about that but...RULES ARE RULES AND BOTH TEAMS HAVE TO ABIDE BY THEM... I am probably sure that the kid didn't know the rule but it is not his job to..It is the coaches job. I can only hope it was a mistake and not on purpose..If it was intentional, there should be stiff reprimands handed top the coaching staff..IF ONE KNEW, THEY PROBABLY ALL DID!!

Me too muffin... I sure hope if some of these expert posters on this thread ARE umps, that they get professional help soon and get back on their medication!!!!! If I were to have to call a game with them , I would be scared to death they would pull some non-rule like that out of you know where and wave it around..If that happens in a real game, there would be (to borrow a line from Wizard of Oz), "GUNS, AND STICKS, AND KNIVES OH MY!!!!)..LOL... And some people wonder why other folks think they are idiots!!!!. I think maybe next year they need to put out a pictorial version of the rule book written in crayon for some of these folks, dont you?

So your are saying that the ump was wrong for supposedly "bringing something form home to the ballpark , but the coach was justified in letting "something from the past between the two of them" spur the coach on the argue the calls just because of that? And one more comment...way before the player, and I dont care who he is or is going to be in the future, comes all the way in from CF to argue a call, he might as well just go on to the bus he rode in on, because the players have no right to argue a call.PERIOD! I know the fans get excited and act crazy at times, but they have no business on the field whatsoever...I have many friends who umpire in the SEC and it would interesting how long a player would last if he pulled something stupid like Lamm supposedly did back then..My bet is about as long as a hiccup!!! The other poster was right too about when the coach argues about each and every call, that poor sportsmanship just creeps over the entire team as well as the fans and then you have chaos at every game...SAVE THAT KIND OF CRAP FOR PRO SOCCER...NO PLACE IN BASEBALL FOR IT!!

maybe ought to check on that one there "coach" The rule is that the manager/coach may make three trips to the mound to the same pitcher in the game,(in the same inning if he wants to) and then he must pull him on the fourth trip. It does not constitute a trip if he pulls the pitcher from the game..This is a very hard to understand and enforce rule. There is NOT a " second visit per inning rule" in high school ball.. Most coaches have a good idea if their pitcher is gonna need relief soon, and usually send the guy ( already in the game) that is going to go to the mound, down to the 'pen to get loose between innings if he is not batting . That way, if the need arises, the reliever can come to the mound in the middle of an inning and only take his 8 allowed throws..I have seen some kids that went down to the 'pen during their teams time at bat, come into the game and only take 4-5 pitches and then look in and tell the ump he's ready... the pitcher is only supposed to have 8 pitches at the start of the game and then only 5 between innings. If it is cold, most umps will allow more if they have any doubt as to whether the player is warm or not.But really, it makes the game boring and seem to drag on when the umps let the kids take 8-12 pitches between innings...The good ones count the pitches and keep the game moving, which makes it better and less boring sometimes. There is even a speed up rules in place so it doesnt have to take so much time between innings..It is not just to let the pitcher get a little rest from running the bases, it is mainly to let the catcher get his gear back on and be ready to hit the field as soon as last out of inning is over..

I may not know squat but I do know one thing for sure..... I can promise you that I was as close to the game as you can get, and what I said earlier is definitely TRUE. but , I have said this before and I will say it once more just for you daa 21....IT IS VERY HARD TO ENGAGE IN A BATTLE OF WITS WITH AN UNARMED PERSON SO I WILL NOT TRY TO WITH YOU.. end of story

I wouldn't really call it wild but it sure was exciting..It was a game between two rival schools, two good coaching staffs, and two good teams, with a lot of bragging rights and pride on the line..great weather , good pitching, and lots of action. There were a couple of strange situations that occured as you have seen earlier in this thread. the umps got them right but it sure did cause a lot of emotion with the players and fans...Both teams played hard, and both made crucial mistakes at the wrong times it seems , and still it turned out to be a super exciting game.. (By the way, our thoughts are with the Forrest asst coach's dad and family. Hope he is doing better.) This is the way that the post season should be, I think. ACTION PACKED and EXCITING!!! I watched part (last four innings) of another very emotional and exciting game last night in Tullahoma between Coffee Co. and Lincoln Co. WOW!!! Tie score after 9 innings and then Coffee broke it open with 6 runs in the top of the 10th..GREAT GAME!!! Really a shame either team had to lose this one. Congrats to all the winners and GOOD LUCK

Riverdaleman..as a matter of fact, I have had a really good year..Just think that turn about would be funny at times, dont you? Have seen a lot of great baseball , as you have too, but have also seen some pretty silly moves also..all in all it has been a great year though..the tournaments have really heated up and look to be very exciting til the end..GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE TEAMS!!! SEE YOU IN THE BORO R'MAN

Dont know.... for sure if he was really given an error in the OFFICIAL scorebook or just the one being kept by FHS bookkeeper in dugout or sidelines. DO know... for sure that the shortstop was not "camped out" under the high fly ball. He just barely got his feet stable under him when the ball hit his glove and fell to the ground.. Did not hear him calling the other fielders off..absolutely sure this was not a routine play for the shortstop to make... DO know... for sure that more than likely in any other game except a dist or reg tourn game, Coach Hardison WOULD HAVE BEEN ejected probably in the first inning but if not, most definitely in the last inning when he went ballistic. He was asked several times to please calm down , to quit screaming, and the ump crew would make sure the call on the field was correct. Finally, when he would not stop arguing and wanting to protest a call he should have known was not a protestable call in the first place, he was confined to the dugout by the base umpire. Probably would have best just to eject him then anyway... DO HAVE ... one thought I would like receive some analysis on...How about the umpires getting to call time and run over to the coaches, screaming and ranting and raving, each and every time they see a great baseball coach do something they think is "stupid" or to use the words of a lot of coaches 'horrible, just horrible"like send a runner who gets thrown out by a mile or lets a runner take off without tagging up, or gives the bunt sign when the ump thinks that is not the thing to do at this time, or puts on the hit and run at the wrong time, left his pitcher in too long, or just whenever the ump thinks the coach has screwed up on with any little part of his job??? I would like to think the coach might not enjoy having someone like that " jump up his butt" in your own words. Do you or any coach that you know????? I think that would be hilarious, dont you? Do you think he would just stand there and be ridiculed like that and not do anything about it? I KNOW THAT NONE OF THE COACHES WOULD LIKE THAT!!!!But it is OK for a coach to try to make a fool out of an umpire whenever he thinks he needs to??? I think NOT? DO NOT think there would be enough room up in "you know where" for the umpire because SOME of the coaches seem to have their heads up thiers sometimes...NOT ALL but some of them... What about it, Jody72...do you agree?

You really need to thoroughly read the rule...Check out a NFHS rule book and read the COMPLETE AND THE EXCEPTIONS THAT APPLY.

SAD to say but it IS true. Very surprised because I have been to Forrest many times for games and was never treated anything but great. Last night was a different story..I guess it being the dist tourn and Cascade and everything else just added to the madness. GOOD LUCK TO BOTH TEAMS... You are correct...ITS JUST A GAME!!!

Then I am correct in thinking that you were one of the Forrest fans who showed way too much class throughout the game? Please get a rule book and do something evidently you haven't done before...READ IT!!!!! LACK OF RULE KNOWLEDGE , BAD SPORTSMANSHIP ,RUDENESS, AND POOR LOSERS, ALWAYS SEEM TO GO TOGETHER. AND STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE !!!

I would like to wish a speedy recovery for Mr. Henson also..The plays in question were (1) in the first inning, an unconventional double play occured as in the post above..The run did count. (2) In the second play, the shortstop was out in left field to try to catch a ball that should really have been handled by the left fielder. He was NOT camped out under the ball and it was NOT a situation to make the catch with ORDINARY EFFORT, as the RULE states...The correct call was made by the umpires who made the call immediately and then had to listen to the Forrest coach screaming something about the infield fly rule..(which did NOT apply to this play!!) They tried to calm Coach Hardison down to tell him that this was not an infield fly rule situation. He was confined to the dugout after repeated efforts to continue the game and his attempts to protest a play that cannot be protested. They then reaffirmed their call (run does not count) on routine double play, and the game proceeded. Funny how LITTLE some of the coaches know about the little things in the rule book. Then the Forrest fans really turned ugly with one man even threatening the plate umpire and telling him that he would know who he ( the person yelling) was because he would be in the parking lot "looking for #6".. The ump crew did not lose their composure at any time but remained calm thoughout the ugly mess. Then to put an exclamation point on the night, the Forrest players on the bus before the coaches got out to the bus were hollering and cursing the umpires as they dressed across the parking lot from their bus. Not a surprise since one of them threw the game ball at the base ump when the game was over and the umps were leaving the field!! Even a parent or two made a journey over where the umps were to make a rude comment or two..TOTALLY CLASSLESS! This not hearsay...I was there and saw it all...UNBELIEVABLE ! Other than the fans and a couple of ugly incidents, it was a good game. Both teams made crucial errors and allowed the other team to score when they would not had they made the plays . Good Luck to both teams in the rest of the tourn!

Please read my post in response to ozzie smith's comments..The post could be in reply to this one also!!